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myk
volveré y seré millones


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Gusta said:
A curiosity: Grazza's map05 maxdemo ends in VPO (129) under doom2.exe. Cool to see VPO built of two sectorsd only :)
Yeah, from the row of columns at the exit. It also affects Anima Zero's fast, but not your max.

Old Post 11-19-05 22:59 #
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Gusta
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There is a visplane from nearly all the corners of the room so my demo has to be very lucky that I didn't get into anyone.
DomRem: Map03 sounds great. Yesterday I did 0:15 there in a few tries and I thought 0:13 would be great there. 0:11 has to be Excellent demo! You could also beat my map04 crappy time (0:23) ???

Old Post 11-20-05 11:11 #
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Kristian Ronge
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Hello all!

I did two more runs:
Map 12 UV max in 0:40. Still much improvable.
Map 14 UV speed in 0:13. Not as hard as it looks (well, getting it down to 0:13 took some time, but I mean the run itself).

I am enjoying your runs. Random thought, Grazza, about map 10: Wouldn't the Tyson be quicker if you just crushed the monsters? Or is that explicitally not allowed in Tyson? (I've never really thought much about it, but I can't recall the official Tyson definition ruling out using crushers) Related to that, wouldn't the max run be quicker if you took the megasphere through that grate? In other words, both the Tyson and max could be done by picking up the megasphere and activating the crusher.

Old Post 11-20-05 21:53 #
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Grazza
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Kristian Ronge said:
map 10: Wouldn't the Tyson be quicker if you just crushed the monsters? Or is that explicitally not allowed in Tyson? (I've never really thought much about it, but I can't recall the official Tyson definition ruling out using crushers) Related to that, wouldn't the max run be quicker if you took the megasphere through that grate?
I use the crusher in my map17 Tyson - the Tyson rules are just that you mustn't fire anything other than weapons 1&2; everything else is fair game. The reason I don't use the crusher for the map10 Tyson is that there's no way I'd survive it. Spider needs more than one full crushing, and even with a megasphere the player can't survive the first crushing.

For the map10 Max, if you grab the megasphere and the door closes behind you, you need the red key to get back out. I'm not sure it's possible to avoid that happening. Even assuming you can (with some 1337 s50ing to skip the relevant linedef), I felt it wasn't worth the time to pick up the megasphere: I imagine it adds something like two seconds (if you're shooting the barrels too), and it's not clear how you'd save that much by having more health. If you're thinking that you'd just run past the archie, then it still needs to have 700 health taken off it. Maybe with a lucky infight with the revenant (where it takes plenty of its own splash damage)?

I've tried my own route improvement idea (kill the PE by shooting the barrels from the corridor with the two demons), but I'm not sure it's that much quicker. And so far, either the PE has survived or I haven't reached the exit switch in time.

Well, it's an interesting map with plenty of route options (amazing with just two sectors), and I'd be interested to see something like that pulled off.

Old Post 11-20-05 22:36 #
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DomRem
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Gusta: Admittedly, I thought MAP04 wouldn't be a fun affair trying to speedrun with all those hitscanners. But, seeing as you managed to finish it, I decided to try it out myself...and it seems I wasn't trying near hard enough before. Here's a 0:15. This was surprisingly fun, and getting into the feel of the map isn't hard, as it only took me an hour and a half to record that.

Old Post 11-21-05 04:30 #
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Gusta
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DomRem: Thanks man, this map definitelly deserved a good speed run.
Grazza: For your tyson discussion I want to ask here a question I have in my mind for a long time: if I could use another weapons than 1 and 2 not killing any monster with them (or blowing barrel up). For example I had some tyson runs where I accidently fired from SG to nowhere, or I even thought about doing a Rocketjump in a tyson run...(dont remember which one it was :-)

Old Post 11-21-05 09:49 #
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Donce
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According to the "official" Tyson rules, you are allowed to take any weapon, but you cannot fire weapons 3 and up, no matter where. And IIRC, Tyson does not require 100% secrets.

Old Post 11-21-05 10:40 #
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Kristian Ronge
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Grazza said:
The reason I don't use the crusher for the map10 Tyson is that there's no way I'd survive it. Spider needs more than one full crushing, and even with a megasphere the player can't survive the first crushing.
Ah, stupid me. ;-) OTOH, isn't the Spider taller than you (so you could chainsaw it while it's being crushed, making it die faster?)

For the map10 Max, if you grab the megasphere and the door closes behind you, you need the red key to get back out.
Oops, just lack of map knowledge there. Sorry. I agree though, amazing how a map with only 2 sectors can have such varying route possibilities/strategies!

Old Post 11-21-05 10:49 #
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Grazza
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Kristian Ronge said:
OTOH, isn't the Spider taller than you (so you could chainsaw it while it's being crushed, making it die faster?)
Yes, but it still takes more than one full crushing (see my map17 Tyson), which would leave the player very dead (properly dead, sir, no barley cross fingers, sir) without the invul.

Old Post 11-21-05 11:32 #
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Kristian Ronge
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All right, I get the point, it's obvious I should've looked at the map (and your map 17 Tyson) again before opening my big mouth. Sorry. :-)

Old Post 11-21-05 14:35 #
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Grazza
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BTW, I really enjoyed 2s14heh.lmp. Best demo evar! (And did you not get the Python reference in my last post?)

Old Post 11-21-05 18:42 #
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Donce
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Ok, will you mind if I jump in? :)

I didn't see any NM demos, so I recorded the first five maps.

In MAP01, my main goal was to reach a :06. After doing a low :07 very quickly, I thought this would be easy but it wasn't. And when I finally did it, I managed to overwrite it the next moment :) Luckily, I succesfully undeleted it. I guess normally you can't recover overwritten files but I first renamed it from 2s01nxxx.lmp to 2s01n006.lmp, then decided to watch and didn't notice that I actually put up a cmd line parameter to record 2s01n006.lmp. So this one was lost, but I recovered 2s01nxxx.lmp. Oh, and I discovered the route myself so I won't credit anyone ;)

MAP02 can get a little bit messy if monsters decide to respawn too early, especially in the middle, between yellow and blue keys.

MAP03 - nothing special, slowly made my way killing every monster except the painees.

MAP04 - this was a bit challenging, those hitscanners can mow you down very quickly.

MAP05 - oh come on, read the textfile at last :-)

Still to play later maps (except MAP15, where I tried a max and also came up with a 0:33, heh), so I don't know what's waiting ahead ;)

Old Post 11-21-05 20:06 #
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Grazza
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Did you try my shortcut route on map02 (2s02-009 in 2seclmps.zip)?

Something from Gusta: 2s04-106 (map04 UV Max in 1:06)

Old Post 11-21-05 20:46 #
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Donce
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Grazza said:
Did you try my shortcut route on map02 (2s02-009 in 2seclmps.zip)?

Heh, obviously not. I do too little investigation of maps :) And I often watch other demos _after_ I record mine. Hmm, but that sometimes results in unnecessary work :)

Old Post 11-21-05 21:21 #
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Kristian Ronge
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Grazza said:
BTW, I really enjoyed 2s14heh.lmp. Best demo evar! (And did you not get the Python reference in my last post?)


Heh, thanks, I knew people would like it! :-) The best possible moment to push the fire button instead of the use button, eh?...

Oh, and a bloke was telling me, if you're in the army and there's a war you have to go and fight. Is that true?

Old Post 11-22-05 10:47 #
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Anima Zero
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Another 7 UV -fast demos I did today. All levels are now complete UV -fast style.

Packaged them all up in zipfile called 2sflmps3 and now sending off to Ops.

Old Post 11-22-05 20:53 #
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Gusta
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Wow, that sounds like nothing "fast pack is just completed" :-) Great work surely! Which demos are missing for a max / speed tables now? Map06 max only come to my mind. And tyson runs? I completed many of them but I will rather go and look if I haven't overlooked something more doable.

Old Post 11-22-05 21:53 #
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Grazza
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I've put together a list of missing demos. I did this quickly and a bit non-systematically, so there might be some errors.

2s demos missing:
  • Tyson: 02, 03, 04, 05 (should be feasible?), 06, 09
  • Max: 06, 08 (no Max faster than the Tyson, anyway)
  • NM 06-17
  • Fast: none! (once Anima's new batch arrives)
  • Speed: 06, 08, 11p, 12p, 15p, 17 (very similar to map10); p = a Pacifist exists, and maybe pacifist != speed on the map in question
  • Pacifist: 02, 03, 04, 06, 10i, 14, 16, 17i; i = probably impossible

Old Post 11-22-05 22:26 #
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Opulent
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more good stuff from Anima:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/2sflmps3.zip

Old Post 11-22-05 23:47 #
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Gusta
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About the tyson runs: Map09 is not so hard to complete, I nearly did it yesterday, just last Hell Knight killed me (it has to be punched with fist without berserk...damn shitty work!), Map05 should be doable not so hardly, just enough luck with infights is required. I wouldn't call other maps impossible but I for me they seems quite uncompletable. And they would be so great with Berserk or saw...:(

Old Post 11-23-05 09:28 #
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Grazza
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BTW, if anyone is looking for more 2sectors stuff to record on, then Andrey Budko linked to a second map here.

Old Post 11-23-05 17:25 #
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Anima Zero
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Was watching my -fast demos and felt that my map03 UV -fast could be improved. Took about an hour to get a new UV -fast recorded in 1:13, 18 seconds faster than my previous demo. 3rd exit (Had a 1:18 recorded about 15-20 minutes prior to getting the 1:13).

Pretty solid run, save for one missed SSG shot on a rev near the end.

Going to send to Ops now.

Old Post 11-23-05 19:31 #
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Kristian Ronge
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Very nice NM demos, Donce, especially map 4. Pity about the map 2 run using an inferior route.

Old Post 11-23-05 20:31 #
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Donce
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Thanks, Kristian. I'll probably redo MAP02 later. So far I'm at MAP10, and had to skip MAP06, I don't believe I could beat it, the farthest I got to was dying just past the first archville and SSG. Now what concerns MAP10 - Grazza, after taking the BFG, you run straight to the exit, cross two door-close linedefs, but the door doesn't close, how come? Is it a mere chance that some monster blocks the door somewhere, or something other? I wasn't able to repeat this, so my current NM route involves taking the blue key, and the time is 0:47, I want better time :)

Old Post 11-23-05 20:58 #
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Gusta
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I Needed 4 tries to get a tyson run of map05 in 1:19 :))) Sweet surprise for me.
Btw. Anima, what about improving map02 -fast too ...with a method I used in my max, where one archie kills Hell Knight, that saves some good seconds.

Old Post 11-23-05 21:51 #
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Gusta
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Got map09 tyson run in just 2:17 !!! Second exit - first one was 4:27 so I am surprised again. Yeah two very lucky runs today, I am sending them to Grazza.

Old Post 11-23-05 22:57 #
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Grazza
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Donce said:
Now what concerns MAP10 - Grazza, after taking the BFG, you run straight to the exit, cross two door-close linedefs, but the door doesn't close, how come? Is it a mere chance that some monster blocks the door somewhere, or something other?
No fancy tricks here - it always happens that way: once the crusher is started, any doors that are open, stay open. If it's working differently for you, I can only suggest that it's because you're using Boom. I'd suggest trying Boom's "Doom compatibility" mode (equivalent to Prboom's -complevel 3), and if that doesn't work, then Chocolate Doom or Prboom-plus with -complevel 1. (Doom2.exe has major performance issues with this map, but Chocolate Doom is OK, albeit with some bad visual problems - the Medusa effect, I presume.)

BTW, I believe the doorways in this map are set so that monsters can't go through them. If they could, then we'd have quite a few more trick options. I prefer it the way it is though, as it makes it more challenging.

Edit: Just tested it, and it needs full Doom2.exe compatibility. Can't do this using Boom, I'm afraid. I don't know whether the author intended it to work this way, but I have no qualms about exploiting it, since the rules of the contest were that nothing port-specific should be used.

Gusta: I haven't received your demos yet.

Old Post 11-23-05 23:39 #
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Gusta
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I sent them again, they should arrive OK now. Also with map08 max in 0:49 I just recorded.

Old Post 11-24-05 00:12 #
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myk
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Grazza said:
(Doom2.exe has major performance issues with this map, but Chocolate Doom is OK, albeit with some bad visual problems - the Medusa effect, I presume.)
Good to hear I wasn't on drugs when I noticed differences in their behavior (as noted in the Chocolate Doom thread.)

Old Post 11-24-05 00:14 #
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Grazza
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Here we are: Gusta's 3 new ones:
2s05t119
2s08-049
2s09t217

myk: I didn't know the name of this effect; I just gathered it from your post and your description of it (which matched my observations).

Old Post 11-24-05 00:20 #
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