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[WH]-Wilou84 said:
Not saying that kind of gameplay is fun, but it does exist anyway.

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xepop said:
Ammo wasting argument is such a bullshit too.

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xepop said:
I hate SG, itīs so damn useless. It really pisses me off when in a hurry chaingunner blocks you and you have to basically roll a dice. With SSG itīs just booom and chainie is all over the place. Ammo wasting argument is such a bullshit too. Thereīs rarely a situation you encounter single low-tier monsters and if you do, changing to a SG is almost meaningless ammowise. Okay, if thereīs single pistolguy in long range of course SG over SSG but what if thereīs many? Why not get closer and blast them to bits with one SSG shot?

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If you're good you can kill a chaingunner with one SG blast.

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Krispavera said:


If you're good you can kill a chaingunner with one SG blast.

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Krispavera said:
I must just be a really lucky guy then, but I still don't consider an SSG shot wasted on one.

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Krispavera said:
If you're good you can kill a chaingunner with one SG blast.

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Maes said:

One-shot kills vs chaingunners are frequent but less so than imps, probably because there are less chances to blast a CG guy in the face than an imp.

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Maes said:


TBQH, I've never witnessed one-shell Lost Soul kills, neither in vanilla nor in source ports. One-shell imp kills are very common, but sometimes they just don't happen, especially vs isolated imps. One-shot kills vs chaingunners are frequent but less so than imps, probably because there are less chances to blast a CG guy in the face than an imp. The high St. dev values in those cases reflect this fact.

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Maes said:
TBQH, I've never witnessed one-shell Lost Soul kills

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Maes said:
One-shot kills vs chaingunners are frequent but less so than imps, probably because there are less chances to blast a CG guy in the face than an imp.

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Maes said:
vs a CG dude it's a bit of a gamble

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Spleen said:
Perhaps because it's hard to make all the shells hit that little bugger in the first place. :P

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Maes said:
It would take 7 max damage pellets, aka 7x15= 105 HP to kill a lost soul in one blast, and that can't happen. Not even 6x15 + 1x10 can happen, due to the value distributions.

Therefore a max damage SG blast is just technically impossible in vanilla doom, unless you use a manipulated RNG (some TASers did so).

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Maes said:

For brevity, the actual pattern of calls to P_Random for the shotgun function was:

7x ({DAMAGE, ANGLE,ANGLE}, EXTERNAL CALLS)

Notice that "External calls" means uses of the P_Random() function outside the "Shotgun function, and can be any random number of calls. What's important, is that each pellet always uses 3 consecutive values without being disrupted (that's why I enclosed 3 values into {} brackets). The whole thing is then repeated 7 times. The SSG is very similar.

If you prefer a more IT term, the computation of angle and damage for each pellet is "atomic", e.g., cannot be disrupted by external events. The SG or SSG shot as a whole is not atomic, however.

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Maes said:
...da fack, dude. So the 105 theoretical maximum damage cannot be dealt to a normal monster (unless you fuck up the flags), while a round 100 damage could be dealt only under some very specific circumstances.

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Maes said:
Now we need a histogram of the probability of every possible damage happening based on all 256 possible P_Random() index starting positions, for each of those cases, and do this analysis for EVERY weapon in Doom ;-)

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Maes said:
I don't understand the "you deal more damage than its life" condition. Does it apply only to the damage done by a single pellet within a cycle? If so, only stuff with less than 15HP would ever be affected by that condition.

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GhostlyDeath said:
For these calculations, the same thing happens every time. Doing every deviation of it would be alot of data, but it could be done. Every time was done for simplicity but isn't always correct.

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GhostlyDeath said:

If damage > thing.life, so yes... If your shotgun blast does 5 damage the thing must have at most 4 life, if it deals 10 the thing must at most 9 life, and so on...

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1. Hitting nothing: 3 calls, base case.
   
   
2. Hitting a wall, with puffs: 7 calls (base case + 4)
   
   
3. Hitting a shootable object that spawns blood or puffs: 7 calls (base case + 4)
   
4. In addition to hitting a shootable object the "inflictor" condition applies: 1 extra call, 8 total.
   
5. If the object is to be damaged:
   there's 1 extra call if it survives for pain chance,
   or 2 calls if it dies and spawns an object (if I understood correctly). Therefore 9 and 10 calls total, respectively
   

• MIN: 45
  
• AVG: 72.46
  
• MAX: 100
  

• MIN: 45
  
• AVG: 72.46
  
• MAX: 105 <-- Pointless, since it can't be dealt!
  

• MIN: 45
  
• AVG: 72.46
  
• MAX: 100
  

• MIN: 50 (Ha!)
  
• AVG: 72.46
  
• MAX: 100
  

• MIN: 50 (Ha!)
  
• AVG: 72.46
  
• MAX: 95
  

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Maes said:
So that leaves you with a 4/256 or about 1/64 chance for a 1-hit kill vs a lost soul, if I did the math right. Boy, what a mouthful :-p

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Maes said:
Sure. We consider only cases the case where 8 calls to P_Random are made, as the last fatal pellet will carry over the damage of a sequence of "straight 8s", and the "inflictor" condition, whatever it's supposed to stand for, cannot apply to 7 consecutive shots on the same target:

There are 241/256 chances that the shot will be fatal (just add up all cases where damage is equal or greater than 60.

Yeah, this only means a 94.14% chance of getting a 1-shot kill on a healthy imp. With the "inflictor" condition on all shots, the chance would actually be lower: 226/256 = 88.28%. In either case it's quite not "a shell, an imp". More like "A shell an imp...most of the time". Sorry if I shattered dreams or wrinkled e-shafts ;-)

Vs a CG dude, odds change dramatically: getting over 70 HP of damage in one shot only has a 176/256 = 68.75% chance, which seems about right.

A one-shot kill vs a healthy lost soul only has a 4/256 =1.5% chance of happening. In other words, don't bet on it.

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