No Hope for Peace re-release?

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DeathevokatioN
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Okay, well after bitching about the final versions of a few maps from this fun little episode not being included in Doom 2 Unleashed, Gez gave me the idea of doing a re-release, where authors are given a chance to PM me an updated version of their maps which I'll compile and upload to idgames as a stand alone episode.

One advantage is that this episode will be boom compatible, as slots 33-40 don't work in boom without warping. And for everyone who's played the original already and was happy with the way it was; I've talked to Darkreaver, and to make this release worth the replay he offered to include 2 really fantastic maps which are to the quality of his Brood of Hatred, and I'll be willing to include another short base map which I built around the time I made Map34. :)

Any thoughts? Anyone think I shouldn't go ahead?

07-29-11 16:28 #

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Phml
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Cool. I like darkreaver's maps (about as much as I like to complain about them!) so will try this out for sure.

Also, this reminds me I never loaded up GZDoom to try that secret episode before.

07-29-11 16:39 #

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Death Egg
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I'd update my map for this, yeah. (I did MAP37: Pumping Station)

As a suggestion, what if it also had completely custom music composed rather than just the Ultimate Doom midis or other music that everyones already heard before?

Last edited by Death Egg on 07-29-11 at 18:02

07-29-11 17:50 #

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MegaDoomer
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I was going to already say that this was a good idea, but with the addition of brand new maps on top of fixes to the old, I'm instead going to say it's a FANTASTIC idea! :)

Seriously, I really look forward to seeing this; BOH was one of the best first maps I can remember playing. And just small tweaks to the No Hope For Peace maps could lift them from good to great.

So this brings the episode to 11 maps - the original eight, some with modifications, and three new ones? If so, that's great; perfectly fits one full Doom II episode.

In any case, this has two shaking thumbs up from me! :)

07-29-11 18:37 #

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Death Egg
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This is a minor update and all, but I changed the room with the Mancubus and Revenants brown to change the monotonous of the color scheme, like I did in my Bone Dry wad.

DOWNLOAD

07-29-11 19:15 #

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DeathevokatioN
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Thanks for the feedback, Phml, Truedude and Megadoomer. I guess I'll go ahead with this. :)

@TrueDude, I'll check out your map later tonight and pm you some feedback on it, if that's ok with you. I remember really enjoying the original. Getting artists to do the soundtrack is cool with me, I'm using a midi that PRIMEVAL sent me a while ago for the bonus map I'm adding, if worst comes to worst and no one helps us with the soundtrack I do have some obscure midis on my hard drive that we can use. ;)

Anyway.... here's a picture of the map I'll be adding to the episode, I'm going to be replacing the custom textures with stock ones to keep it in the spirit of the rest of the maps, and because stock textures kick ass. There is also alot going on behind the player that you can't see.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee101/NecroMolester/doom18.jpg

Last edited by DeathevokatioN on 07-29-11 at 20:14

07-29-11 20:01 #

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MegaDoomer
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I like the shot! :)

Also I just wanted to note that in my opinion, Paul should not be forced in any way to join this remake project, especially since he doesn't even have one of his maps in it. He seems to have moved onto other stuff, and I'd recommend nothing more than casually inviting him at the very most. However, if he does show legitimate interest, then by all means I think he should be allowed to join. Is what I recommended at least close to along the lines of your plans regarding any potential involvement he has?

07-29-11 21:48 #

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DeathevokatioN
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Paul can join this project (maybe to do some music) if he wants. I won't force anybody to do anything though.

07-29-11 22:07 #

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Philnemba
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Heres a fix version of "Liquid Facility" that I did back in April.

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29637553/map38fix.wad

07-30-11 03:33 #

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MegaDoomer
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Philnemba said:
Heres a fix version of "Liquid Facility" that I did back in April.

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29637553/map38fix.wad

The most critical problem with that map was the closed sector.

Also for the rerelease - can the maps be reordered a bit, so they progress in general by size, difficulty, and theme? (For example, Map38 is now the third last level, but being very earth-styled it would be appropriate as an earlier map.) Map40 would have to be Map11 (as it's the final battle) but otherwise the maps could be moved around to the best overall progression, that's what I think is best.

Also I certainly think the PM's should go out to others who are still around on here and may want to modify their map(s)! (I'm pretty sure Chris Hansen basically isn't around much anymore, plus I can't really think of anything wrong with Map33, and obviously Philnemba and TrueDude are already aware of this as they've posted in this thread, but Purist, Daimon, and Impboy each have a map in the set as well and they should certainly be notified IMO.)

07-30-11 03:42 #

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Philnemba
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MegaDoomer said:
The most critical problem with that map was the closed sector.

Tht closed sector was never there before the final release as somehow Paul mess it up whatever nodebuilder he was using.

07-30-11 03:56 #

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purist
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This project has my blessing. I think Paul used my latest version of Piss Factory but if anyone has any suggestions to improve it I'll take another look at it. The only negative feedback I remember about the level is confusion over the order the switches need to be hit in the final room but there is a visual clue so unless it's a common problem it's probably not critical. Oh, and I remember Paul saying it was a bit symmetrical but that would probably require too much of an overhaul.

To address the other points here...

Music: I'm not at all precious about the music used for my map. I just let Paul pick one for it. I don't have any suggestions but if someone else has an idea for music that will fit - or wants to make a track for it that's fine by me,

Sequence: It's always a tightrope balancing theme and difficulty progression in a community project not built with these concerns in mind. I guess it will be recomended that the maps are pistol started anyway so in that regard it doesn't matter much. My level was designed to be either at the beginning or as close the the beginning as possible as it works best with a tight ammo balance but I'll go along with whatever is decided.

New maps: I'm not so keen about adding maps as to me it's too far removed from the original release. If the majority are in favour I'm happy to go along with it though. If that's the case I'd even like to contribute a second map but if there's a deadline anytime soon that's not going to happen as I have to make the PFCP my priority right now.

07-30-11 16:37 #

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MegaDoomer
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purist said:
New maps: I'm not so keen about adding maps as to me it's too far removed from the original release. If the majority are in favour I'm happy to go along with it though. If that's the case I'd even like to contribute a second map but if there's a deadline anytime soon that's not going to happen as I have to make the PFCP my priority right now.

You are not required to make any new maps. The only new maps expected are those from darkreaver and one from DeathevokatioN. This will make it a full 11-level epiosde. :) It could be something in similar spirit to Dark Resolution 2008, another smaller scale community mapset, although obviously there will be differences, but I like the idea of one full Doom II episode. I'd strongly discourage abandoning the notion to add the three new maps, it'll really detract from the worthiness of the whole separate release IMO. :)

Oh, and feel free to concentrate of PFCP first and foremost. I'm looking forward to that just as much as this. :)

07-30-11 18:40 #

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darkreaver
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I have started replacing all custom textures in one of the maps with stock Doom 2 textures.

I`m not really sure I want to include the other map though, it`s really not good imo ;) (it`s the first map I ever made (made it alongside boh666.wad), so...)

btw: I do need a lavafall texture. It`s not in the stock textures, but it`s a must for my map!

edit: well I have decided not to include one of the maps, so that leaves one slot open

07-30-11 20:07 #

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purist
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MegaDoomer said:

You are not required to make any new maps.

Oh, I know this. I just don't think the added maps will have any connection with original episode - other than being made by the same mappers. I don't feel overly strongly against it but I wanted to share my thoughts.

07-30-11 20:49 #

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darkreaver
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purist said:

Oh, I know this. I just don't think the added maps will have any connection with original episode - other than being made by the same mappers. I don't feel overly strongly against it but I wanted to share my thoughts.

I see your point man, but IMO I think its nice to fill up the whole episode while we/deathevo is at it.

07-30-11 20:53 #

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purist
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If there's to be added maps it might be most fitting using them to "link" the existing maps so that they segue better thematically.

I assume a titlepic, an interpic, CWILVxx graphs and a dehacked patch for the automap level names and intermission text are going to be done?

07-30-11 21:02 #

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darkreaver
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Personally I dont have any info at all, but I really hope so. I actually doubt deathevo have much info/plans himself yet, as this thread was the inception of the "project".

Again, I`m hoping for a titlepic and all that stuff.

07-30-11 21:10 #

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DeathevokatioN
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Some news from my corner; with Truedude's permission, I revamped some areas in "Pumping Station", added more monsters and polished up it's visuals, also added some detail to make the scenes look more striking while staying true to his original vision and still keeping the old school feel his map had.

Chris Hansen's Map34 is perfect, I can't think of anything that I'd change about it, don't have the authors permission anyway. hehe. A slow atmospheric midi would definitely fit this one.

Thanks for the map Phil, I'll check it out once I have the time.

I got a friend who can do a cool titlepic for us. I'll try find a way to get the level names to display in the automap as well as the intermission screen.

Purist, I'm a huge fan of your Piss Factory, however I remember alot of areas being wayyyy too dark, the lack of brightness gave me a painful headache. I need to give it another run and will pm my thoughts if I feel it needs improvement in other areas as well, however, I do remember it being a killer map with a clever progression and good gameplay.

I will place the extra maps so that they fit in thematically, as well as fitting gameplay wise, my map might fit between Pumping Station and Impboy's Rehabilitated Warehouse, either that or I place it alongside Darkreavers base map near the end. I personally think there's nothing wrong with adding a few extra maps if the quality is up to par with the rest of the episode. The extra maps will also give people a reason to actually check out the re-release, IMO. Your more than welcome to build another map for this, there isn't a deadline anytime soon, so don't worry. :)

Okay, and speaking of theme consistency, I suggest we make it so the base maps use a white cloudy sky, similar to that of E2 of Pcorf project. As that color looks like it fits all the base maps we have here. While the 2 hellish maps at the end have a common red sky.

Also, does Impboy post on this forum? I'd like to know of his thoughts about this, and he's welcome to contribute a new map as well.

And no, I don't really care for having exactly 11, 20 or 32 maps. While it's neat to have an episode, going a few maps over 11 isn't a big deal, aslong as the extra maps add value.

Last edited by DeathevokatioN on 08-01-11 at 23:51

08-01-11 17:15 #

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purist
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Predominant lighting in the Piss Factory is 128, which I concede is dull but I didn't find it excessively so. Could this be a brightness/gamma issue rather than lighting? If this is a common problem I'll crank up lighting 32 units, which might help but I don't want to lose the atmosphere of the map as a result.

Please let me know if there's anything else first so I can make all the fixes together.

I quickly played through the map again and if the maps are to be ordered by gameplay I request mine is placed as early in the wad as possible. It's pretty tightly balanced on ammo and starting with a SSG would kill it. If they're going to all be pistol starts ignore this.

08-01-11 18:51 #

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DeathevokatioN
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I think that's either a gamma problem or a case of mapper's tunnel vision.

If your going for atmosphere, I suggest alternating between 160 and 144 might work with your map, 160 for larger rooms, 144 for smaller and then saving 128 for special occasions where you want a more brooding atmosphere for a particular area so that it's more striking, or to create contrast. Larger areas with light levels 128 and down often end up looking ugly.

If we're going by the order of pccp, the map just before your one does have a SSG at the end, I'm not sure what to do though because it has about half the monster count and difficulty of your map, and the SSG near the end provides alot of entertainment value with demo recording. Your map did play quite nicely when I entered it with an SSG though. Lucky enough, to most player's it's already common knowledge that the way to play a level the way the author intended a map, is to pistol start.

08-01-11 19:18 #

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Gez
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A lot of months ago, I made a map which for some reason I uploaded somewhere. It had a lot of dark areas (light level 128 and less). People shouted at me that I shouldn't just test my maps with the OpenGL renderer and that it was impossible to see anything in software mode.

True story.

08-01-11 20:05 #

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DeathevokatioN
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Finished retexturing my bonus map, and now I'm going to touch up a bit on "Necromancy". I'm thinking I'm gonna put the two bonus base maps near to the end, just before Walter's hellish map, and once Darkreaver sends me his hellish map I'll determine which one is more difficult and epic theme wise between his and Phil's hellish map.

Any original contributor to No Hope for Peace may contribute an additional map towards this.

Also, I shot Impboy an email, as I don't think he posts here. Still need to get around to contacting Walter.

08-02-11 23:11 #

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MegaDoomer
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How many maps will this release have? My original vision was for 11 (the 8 original maps, one new from DeathevokatioN, and two new from darkreaver, but if you want to extend it beyond that's okay. And no, it does not have to be 20 maps just for being more than 11 (or 32 maps if it ends up more than 20); any intermediate number should be fine. :)

08-03-11 12:35 #

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DeathevokatioN
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[ignore this post]

Last edited by DeathevokatioN on 08-07-11 at 19:18

08-07-11 16:32 #

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DeathevokatioN
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Phil, and Captain Toenail; Check your pms please. :)

08-11-11 10:13 #

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DeathevokatioN
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Anyone interested in making a titlepic?

08-12-11 17:57 #

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Death Egg
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You could try to get ahold of one of the rejected DTWID title screens and put "No Hope For Peace" on it. Don't know who you'd ask to get ahold of one of them though.

08-12-11 18:21 #

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