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ragnew
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Posts: 390
Registered: 07-03


Hey Guys,

For the last, oh, I'd say 9 years I've been playing Doom and Doom II keyboard only, and I'm now thinking that it'd be pretty cool to see how I'd do as a mouser... Yes, thats right, I'm finally going to try to use the mouse and keyboard combo. Just got some questions for all of you though...

First off, what, if any are the advantages of using the mouse with the board, as opposed to just the board? To me, it looks like the player moves faster all the way around... Sharper turns, angled firing and etc.... Is there any real factor that made all of you decided to do the board and mouse combination?

Secondly, what kind of key configuration do you use... Forwad, back, strafe and the such... I'm not too sure as to what would be the best way to set the board up, but I'm looking forward to trying the mouse-thing out thats for sure...

As always, thanks and I do appreciate it...

- Richie

Old Post 02-13-04 02:07 #
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Piezo
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I use the mouse to turn and look up and down (invertedly) and the keys to move forward and backward and strafe left and right. Mouse button 1 to fire and mouse button 2 to "push" (hit a switch.) Currently I use the numpad but I plan on changing it later because it is a pain for chat messages.
Edit: I turned auto aim off for this configuration.

Last edited by Piezo on 02-13-04 at 21:43

Old Post 02-13-04 02:28 #
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Grazza
Let's try Caesium


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I switched to mouse+keyboard because I'd been using it in other games, and when I returned to Doom, it seemed the natural thing to use. I'd really sucked as a keyboarder, so there also seemed nothing to lose.

I use:
WASD for movement (A and D are strafe left/right)
autorun (either via the port options or joyb_speed 29)
Ctrl = turn left (for S50 only)
Alt = turn right (for S50 only)
(Windows key disabled :) )
Space = use
MB1 = fire
MB2 = strafe on (for S50 only)

My horizontal mouse sensitivity is around 50, and vertical is zero.

Advantages? Dunno, I just seem to suck less overall. Smoother movement, I suppose, and finer control of angles.

[Ctrl and Alt for turning is a bit odd, but my keyboard seemed to prefer that; trying to press four regular keys at once didn't work too well.]

Old Post 02-13-04 02:31 #
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ragnew
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Grazza said:

[Ctrl and Alt for turning is a bit odd, but my keyboard seemed to prefer that; trying to press four regular keys at once didn't work too well.]



Hehe... yeah I was just going to ask you about that. Is it necessary to turn with the keyboard? Man oh man, its gonna be a long time before I get the hang of the mouse... It feels like I'm a newbie all over again... shesh.... Safe to say I won't be recording anything else for quite sometime... :) Thanks for the reply Graz... And thank you too Peizo...

Oh yeah Grazza, how do you disable the windows key on the keyboard... lol. I was looking around and couldn't come up with an answer... Thanks again.

Old Post 02-13-04 02:59 #
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Grazza
Let's try Caesium


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I imagine you'll get used to a new set-up sooner than you think. When I changed to my current set-up (from a much inferior mouse+keyboard set-up with mlook using the arrow keys and lacking any good way to get S50), it felt very unnatural for a short while, but I was very surprised how quickly it started to feel OK.

The Ctrl and Alt are just for S50 - normal turning is done using the mouse.
SR40: W+D and mouse for simultaneous turning
SL40: W+A and mouse for simultaneous turning
SR50: W+D+Alt+MB2
SL50: W+A+Ctrl+MB2
(With that SL50 set-up, it's best if the nail on your little finger isn't too long. :) )

I'm sure other people have better S50 set-ups; as I said, I chose this one mainly due to keyboard issues.

[Vince mentioned that he used to bind all the necessary functions to a single key to get S50, but it seems that's a Doom2.exe-only thing - at least he hadn't found a suitable port where it was possible.]

A Google search for "disable windows key" should find instructions for whichever OS you have. If you're an XP user, I can recommend this one (excellent site for XP tuning generally).

Old Post 02-13-04 03:53 #
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Opulent
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there is a keyboard tsr that can disable any key in Dos mode. besides actually disabling the key entirely(or the special windows functions), you can physically 'remove' it for the times you play... then just replace it when you are done.

as for your question:
windows ports use the API systems for input devices, so you can change the rate of the mouse speed in windows to effect the game speed.
for the real game, mouse users actually do have a movement advantage over keyboarders.
in LMPC terms, you can TRxx (TLxx) a value of 30+ with a mouse, whereas I think values over 20 or so are impossible with keyboard-only input.
Theoretically, you can only TL50/TR50 (but with windows mouse acceleration, you can go higher, I think)... and I think there's a limitation to the SPEED of turnleft/turnright from a keyboard input.
This is one reason why you don't see many keyboard-only deathmatch masters, I assume.

let us know how the experiments work out. :)

edit: oh, Grazza beat me to the reply. :)

Last edited by Opulent on 02-13-04 at 04:11

Old Post 02-13-04 04:06 #
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ragnew
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Thanks Ops,

Cool man, I thought it seemed like the mousers moved a bit faster... I was always like, "what the hell? I use the same routes on some demo attempts, and no matter how perfect the runs are, I always seemed to be a bit short!!!" - Lol!!!

This is going to be an experiment and a half I tell you. I suck when I try to control the mouse w/ the keyboard... So far its taken me like 3 minutes to get by Map01 of Doom II (I kid you not, 3 minutes lol)!!! I sit there and try to strafe around enemies and end up looking like I've just had some kind of seizure... hehe.. But its fun anyway... :)

Well, wish me luck guys.. I'll need it..

Old Post 02-13-04 06:08 #
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Donce
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Here is my config but I don't recommend it to anyone:

mb1 = forward
mb2 = strafe on
x = fire
space = use

That's pretty much it, and I always hold down left Alt cause earlier I used it for running (before I knew about joyb_speed) and got used to it so much that I can't play otherwise :)

Oh, and I use this weird config in newer games as well, and in Quake or Half-Life I can only go back when strafe-on is active, hehe.

Old Post 02-13-04 09:46 #
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toxicfluff
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Just stick with the mouse until you get the hang of it Ragnew. There is a big advantage of being able to instantly flick your aim which cuts down your response time to a threat, and it will also smooth your movement out in general since you can turn at more than one speed. If you're using vanilla though, make sure you disable vertical sensitivity, or you'll end up falling off a lot of narrow ledges.

Old Post 02-13-04 10:11 #
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Kristian Ronge
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I switched to mouse as soon as I learned about strafing (this was somewhere around 1998 or 1999), just because I became too confused with pressing 5 or 6 keys simultaneously to get the desired precision in turning/angles (I think my keyboard complained a bit about it as well!). At first I sucked miserably when using the mouse but after only a week or two I became as good as I'd been before, and only a short time after that, better.

My current config will probably seem very wierd to you, but here goes:

Foward/backward - up/down keys
Strafe left - left key
Strafe right - right key
Fire - left mouse
Use - right mouse button

BTW, this is the reason I don't usually play using the original engine or PrBoom; binding "use" to single-click RMB seems impossible; when I try, it keeps insisting I have to DOUBLECLICK which is annoying, to say the least.

In ZDooM I have the middle mouse button for jumping. In Doom(2).exe I have strafe-on bound to left/right key, IIRC (so that I just have to press right/left to strafe right/left). I also always play with "always run".

To be able to switch weapons quickly, I remapped the weapons keys to the keys closest to the directional keys (various, e.g. ".","*"...).

In ZDooM I set it up so I can scroll through weapons with the middle mouse button, but I rarely do that.

So anyways -- DON'T use my config (because it's very awkward), and keep practising with the mouse! You'll become better than you previously thought possible in no time! :-)

EDIT: About mouse sensitivity - there's something highly individual. Most people prefer very sensitive mice because it allows for fine adjustment of position and movement. OTOH, even the slightest twitch can throw you off your course by a wide margin. I've experimented with both very sensitive and very non-sensitive, and found a slightly less sensitive option to be the best. It seems I play very twitchy and erratically (some people have given me feedback on demo recordings claiming they've suffered from motion sickness when watching me play because I keep twisting and jerking!) so a less sensitive mouse keeps my precision up.

Last edited by Kristian Ronge on 02-13-04 at 21:27

Old Post 02-13-04 11:52 #
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Julian


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Grazza said:
WASD for movement (A and D are strafe left/right)

Now try that on an azerty :P

Old Post 02-13-04 11:59 #
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toxicfluff
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Kristian Ronge said:
To be able to switch weapons quickly, I remapped the weapons keys to the keys closest to the directional keys (various, e.g. ".","*"...).
Ahh, this is why I use DCXV, there's a large amount of nearby keys for weapon binds, and it's not too far away from shift and control, which accomodate my little finger nicely.

Old Post 02-13-04 12:09 #
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Kristian Ronge
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Cool. :-)

I'd like to try on a different key mapping, but in a way I'm reluctant to change something I'm comfortable with (and have been for at least 5 years now). I use the same configuration, with only minor modifications if necessary, in all FP shooters.

Old Post 02-13-04 12:13 #
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VinceDSS
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Grazza said:

[Vince mentioned that he used to bind all the necessary functions to a single key to get S50, but it seems that's a Doom2.exe-only thing - at least he hadn't found a suitable port where it was possible.]



I was able to get it under prBoom (tweaking in config file)
and in Legacy (very easy in-game, all port should be like that!)

Note that my St50 is one way only, but easy since I only need to press two key to activate it (ALT+Strafe right) => usefull to repeat map21 glide through yellow bars.

Old Post 02-13-04 18:55 #
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Szymanski


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forward = up
backward = down
strafe left = left arrow
strafe right = right arrow
use = enter

steer with the mouse (vertical sensitivity zero). I changed last week after 10 years of keyboard only :)

Old Post 02-13-04 19:33 #
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VinceDSS
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My keyb+mouse config is very weird, and probably unique (only my cousin uses it but we started mousing at the same time).

Turn left/right = mouse
Forward = right mouse button
Backward = Z
Strafe Left = A
Strafe Right = S

This is a kind of extension from my former keyboard config where :
- right hand : 4 arrows and RCtrl for fire
- left hand : A/S for strafe, space, LShift + numbers for weapons

I just added Z for backward when I went to mouse, so it was rather easy for me to switch (+/-2 weeks).

Old Post 02-13-04 21:03 #
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ragnew
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Hehe... Thanks for all the info guys. I do appreciate it. Seems like theres about a dozen different configs that I can take a whack at...

Now with the strafe50, what exactly does that do? I've noticed that when I strafe against anykind of back wall the player moves a lot faster then if I were just strafing out in the open. Does the strafe50 allow the player to strafe at top speed at his/her own will? Or is it something else?

Yeah, yeah, stupid question I know, but I'm kind of lost when it comes to all the strafe50's and 40's... Trust me on this one...lol.

Laters
- Rich

Old Post 02-14-04 00:19 #
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Grazza
Let's try Caesium


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I gave the details of the difference between S40 and S50 here. The key point to note is that you can't turn while using strafe-50.

Wallrunning is a separate issue. Some discussion here, including the "official word" from AdamH.

Old Post 02-14-04 03:26 #
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