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toxicfluff
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Hmm...I say that the content released for a port makes up a large part of the reason for getting it.

I really don't like the way Zdoom movement, or mouselook or just.... something feels, but there has been some excellent stuff released for it, so I'd say it's a must have port. Really stable and well thought-out overall, fairly good netcode too. Zdoom has indigenous stuff like slopes and dynamic colour selection for the player. So many little touches with Zdoom actually I can't remember them all. I don't know what ACS is like in comparison to fragglescript or RTS (EDGE scripting) but I would guess it's possibly more limited because I've seen and thought of quite a few advanced effects in FS which I haven't seen in any Zdoom or Edge map.

I like the way legacy feels and it has some really good editing features (3d floors, lighting, fragglescript, swimmable water) plus splitscreen which just has to be a good thing. I haven't played legacy over the net in a looong time so I can't comment on Netcode. Has various gameplay options, Boom support etc etc, I really like legacy, my only qualms are that it seems to have fucked up savegames and sound is a little buggy. Savegames don't affect me, because I do levels in one run always, but it's awful that something so fundamental doesn't currently work. Some very good content released for it, so I would again say it's a must have port.

Ah man, I'm gonna cut this short. I think it's good to have all the ports which have port-specific content released for them. Why stop yourself from playing an awesome map just because it's not on "your" port? I never got why people get semi-political about what sourceport they prefer/hate. For fuck's sake, there's many more worthwhile causes to take up.

So, brief rundown of the other (to my mind) main ports:

Jdoom/doomsday:
- Ugly graphically. Pretty for doom. We don't really play Doom for looks though, do we?
- Scripted particles, rudimentary linetype script system, intermission system, more flexible DED script format instead of dehacked/bex

- Poor editing features in terms of mapping, so very little innovative content released for it so far. Mainly good for graphics/dehacked mods at the moment

I've got big hopes for Jdoom, it's promised that there will be new editing features in the next release, and I can't wait to test them out. May become a really popular port for addon content, rather than just for eyecandy.

Edge: something of a sleeper port - capable, but not too popular for some reason.
- DDF system. In a word: incredible. If you want a major gameplay modification, EDGE is the best for it. The DDF format is leaps ahead of deh, you can add loads of new weapons, new kinds of enemy attacks (trajectory prediction etc,). Just excellent. I loved making the SSG spit out 60 wads of lead per boom.
- RTS scripting. Don't even know if this is a pro since I've never used it.
- Really pretty, but slow as shit dynamic lighting in GL
- Supports 3dfloors and most boom stuff I think.

- Crappy GL speed with DL
- From what I know, RTS isn't comparable to ACS or FS


Oh yeah, and what is DooMscript???

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Old Post 02-18-03 18:52 #
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zdoom 1.22+
many, many features.
stable
32players in net play
slopes, 3dsounds, opengl
cons
no true sector over sector(room over room)
no intergraded 3d [arts

doom95.exe
no pros other than runs in windows and has variable res selections
cons
unstable, infact more bugs than in the DOS exe
was never upgraded
reselutions were buggy
demo recording never worked
crashes and still kept old dos exe bugs
increased chances of visplane overflow, ran into it more offten in doom95.exe.
best used on windows 95 and only windows 95
many other errors not worth talking about

doom(2).exe
pros
the first
stable for its time
best for its time
complex maps, more than 90 degree rooms and 7' high ceilings
better spirits and graphics, not a victim of the 'cartoonish' look
first to have net/modem play
other good features

cons
DOS only, but didnt matter cause DOS was it back then
out dated
visplane_overflow error
limited mapping abilities
sound support was limited on non-soundblaster cards
netplay or modem play was limited and difficult.
may not run with newer systems and operating systems.
enemies had unlimited hight.
no lookup/down

Old Post 02-18-03 21:38 #
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Draconio
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PrBoom:

Pros
- Settings allow for very close to vanilla play
- Boom feature support
- MBF feature support

Cons
- No advanced mapping features (beyond Boom/MBF)
- No advanced eyecandy options for those that want them


Doombot 5.1:

Pros
- Bot navigates and fights well
- Compatible with ZDoom 1.22
- Waypoint table can be made to assist bot navigation
- Support for CTF maps, which the bot can play
- Bot can play cooperative mode

Cons
- Bot sometimes leaves a ghost sprite
- Obituaries do not work properly
- Dehacked patches that alter weapons do not work properly
- Bots leave the game when map changes
- Bots names/colors are not configurable, nor may their skill be adjusted
- Procedure for adding waypoints is poorly documented

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Old Post 03-19-03 19:01 #
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Coldfusio
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Gldoom
pro:
Almost no loading times
Low on resources
Solid software
Allows you to play two, three,... different wads at a time. ( switch with alt-tab)

On my system, a mere pII, it's the only port running happily with ten other programs and still loads and quits under 3 seconds.
cons:
Is somebody still working on it?

Last edited by Coldfusio on 06-09-03 at 22:31

Old Post 06-09-03 17:49 #
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DevastatioN
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All ports in General:

Pros:
-Get to play DooM

Cons:
-Lag is horrible
-It isn't true DooM
-All ports screw up Map1, they love doin that
-Aiming sux
-More newbies around
-More hackers around

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Old Post 06-09-03 21:53 #
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Epyo
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DevastatioN said:
Cons:
-Lag is horrible
-All ports screw up Map1, they love doin that
-Aiming sux
-More newbies around
-More hackers around



Huh? Explain these plzthx.

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Old Post 06-09-03 22:43 #
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DevastatioN
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well, I thought it was pretty self explainatory.
Lagg is bad :) that means, ping difference is quite horrible and leads to unfair games.
All ports screw up Map1, this is also self explainatory, most ports mess up the Physics of map1, they screw up the plasma grab, the silent weapon spots in the map, and make the strategy totally different in the map.
Aiming in a port is much more horrible than aiming in doom2.exe, this includes lagg, morphing, and other stupid shit.
More Hackers is kinda self explainatory as well :) there was at a few points quite a few hacks going around some of the communities

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Old Post 06-09-03 23:06 #
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Graf Zahl
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DevastatioN said:
well, I thought it was pretty self explainatory.
Lagg is bad :) that means, ping difference is quite horrible and leads to unfair games.
All ports screw up Map1, this is also self explainatory, most ports mess up the Physics of map1, they screw up the plasma grab, the silent weapon spots in the map, and make the strategy totally different in the map.
Aiming in a port is much more horrible than aiming in doom2.exe, this includes lagg, morphing, and other stupid shit.
More Hackers is kinda self explainatory as well :) there was at a few points quite a few hacks going around some of the communities



In other words: you prefer buggy gameplay, just because you are used to it, right?

Old Post 06-10-03 08:29 #
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boris
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DevastatioN said:
Lagg is bad :) that means, ping difference is quite horrible and leads to unfair games.

Man, that's a great idea! All new games should use doom.exe network code, since it will result in NO LAG, no matter how fast your connection is! Wheeeeee!

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Old Post 06-10-03 13:24 #
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Zakath
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boris said:

Man, that's a great idea! All new games should use doom.exe network code, since it will result in NO LAG, no matter how fast your connection is! Wheeeeee!



Pure sarcasm at best, Heh Heh..

Old Post 06-10-03 14:04 #
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Zakath
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footman said:
-splitscreen play isn't always that great in DM




It's better then nothing...especially when a person only has one comp, and a few joysticks with a game that has splitscreen support to be happy with.(Jazz Jackrabbit 2: TSF, for example)

Old Post 06-10-03 14:09 #
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DevastatioN
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im not saying new games are completely bad cause of server client, but honestly, there are no bragging rights over server/ client imo at all, nor is it any use imo.

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Old Post 06-10-03 19:16 #
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engineer
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it's better than nothing.

Old Post 06-14-03 07:52 #
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AgentSpork
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Doom2.exe
Cons:
-No Slopes
-No Scripted events
-No 3D floors/water/lighting
-No Dynamic Lighting
-No Colored Lighting
-No BOOM stuff
-Only 320x230 resolution
-Bad sound support
-DOS
-Modem/IPX support only
-etc.


Hehe.. Okay.. I'm just joking, here.
:)

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Old Post 06-15-03 15:14 #
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DevastatioN
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lol...
DooM2.exe Pros:
-Original
-Best for DM
-Best competition ever

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Old Post 06-15-03 17:06 #
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Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


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AgentSpork said:
Doom2.exe
Cons:
-No Slopes
-No Scripted events
-No 3D floors/water/lighting
-No Dynamic Lighting
-No Colored Lighting
-No BOOM stuff
-Only 320x230 resolution
-Bad sound support
-DOS
-Modem/IPX support only
-etc.


Hehe.. Okay.. I'm just joking, here.
:)



More cons:

-no mouselook
-large levels can't be saved
-crashes with many detailed levels

Old Post 06-15-03 17:53 #
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Gokuma
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If EDGE had some working multiplayer (Just ipx would be great) more people would probably be all over it.

Skins loaded properly in previous versions of Legacy but it's *******ely screwed up in the current version. I think the launcher might contribute to the problem as well.

Old Post 06-15-03 18:01 #
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Arioch
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Gokuma said:
If EDGE had some working multiplayer (Just ipx would be great) more people would probably be all over it.
I doubt that.

Skins loaded properly in previous versions of Legacy but it's *******ely screwed up in the current version. I think the launcher might contribute to the problem as well.
It's all symptomatic.

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Old Post 06-15-03 18:08 #
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Graf Zahl
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Arioch said:
I doubt that.



Mee too... ;-)

Old Post 06-15-03 22:04 #
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DevastatioN
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Graf Zahl: most people who are here dont really care about mouselook etc, if they do, why they dont go play Quake and Counter Strike is beyond me :)
Most people who like DooM like it because of its speed and balance imo I dont see mouselook as a con in DooM (yes I play newer games)

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Old Post 06-16-03 15:17 #
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boris
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DevastatioN said:
most people who are here dont really care about mouselook etc

What makes you think that?

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Old Post 06-16-03 16:02 #
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DevastatioN
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no one ive seen who actually plays and plays to be good uses mouselook form what ive ever seen :)

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Old Post 06-16-03 22:49 #
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Captain Red
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I think you drastically underestimate the amount of mouse look users there are. We’re just not as loud as the 'old school' players. Secondly, if you think the only difference between doom and other FPS is that doom doesn’t have mouse look, then you really don't belong here.

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Old Post 06-16-03 23:52 #
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DevastatioN
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no, there are clearly many other differences, in speed, movement, and even gameplay itself, DooM has a feel that people like for a reason, and ports seem to change that feel and make it a completely different game.

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Old Post 06-17-03 13:16 #
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NiGHTMARE
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DevastatioN said:
-Lag is horrible
Only if you're using a crappy 'net connection :) And if that's the case, there's a good chance doom2.exe will be lagged as well anyway.


-It isn't true DooM
Depends what you mean by "true Doom". By some peoples' defintions, Doom 2 is technically not "true Doom" either. Other people may well say that no version of doom.exe newer than v1.0 is "true Doom". Then others could even argue that "true Doom" is actually what was intended when Tom Hall created the Doom Bible, so in reality there is no such thing as "true Doom" :)


-All ports screw up Map1, they love doin that
Correction, some ports "screw up" map01. Many ports (e.g. ZDoom) have options you can set that turn back on the old doom(2).exe bugs such as wall running, silent BFG, etc.

Besides, whether they "screw it up" or not depends on how obsessed you are with having such "features" identical to how they are in the original .exe (and if you are, why not simply stick with the original .exe?). A lot of people aren't bothered by it at all.


-Aiming sux
Are you referring to mouselook? If so, guess what? You can *gasp* not use it! ZDoom and a few other ports even lets mappers disable it (and jumping) by default in their levels.


-More newbies around
So what? As long as they aren't immature little kiddies such as you get on Counter-Strike and the like (and the vast majority of them aren't - in fact I suspect a large proportion of CS players have never even heard of the original Doom), what's the problem?


-More hackers around
I'm actually only aware of one hack for any source port, whereas there are tonnes of hacks available for the original .exe



Graf Zahl: most people who are here dont really care about mouselook etc, if they do, why they dont go play Quake and Counter Strike is beyond me :)
Because Doom is an completely different game than either of these two, even with mouselook. Where are the Doom levels, textures, sound effects, music, weapons, enemies, etc in Quake and CS? Answer: they're not there. Besides this, the Doom community is full of some of the nicest people around. I don't know much about the Quake community, but the CS community is generally a bunch of immature "1337-speak" pre-teens. Also, the problem you raised of hackers (which as I said thankfully seems to be a pretty non-existant one) is a major one in the case of CS.

A more relevant (but similar) question is why anyone who believes Doom should remain exactly the way it was in 1993 (which IMHO would have killed the community by now) would want to play anything other than the original .exe . The only answer I can think of is that most people prefer the ports, meaning there's hardly anyone the original .exe lovers can play against in DM if they stick with doom(2).exe ;)


DooM has a feel that people like for a reason, and ports seem to change that feel and make it a completely different game.
As I said, all the Doom levels, enemies, weapons, etc are all still present in all the ports in their original states, so no. Even if certain ports do create a "different game", I (and probably many others) would say that it's by far a better one.

Doom(2).exe is almost a decade old, and it was far from being perfect at the time (otherwise it would have scored 100% in every magazine in existence, there would be no need for any add-on levels let alone any ports, and literally everyone would still be playing it!). Don't you think it really needs a few improvements by now?

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Old Post 06-17-03 13:40 #
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Modern gamers need modern features. If we stop attracting new people, the community is, ahem, doomed. I like playing Q3 online, but DOOM is just different. It's twice as fast ( Q3 is so slow after a few hours of DOOM ), I know lots of the people here, and there are still loads of modern options to make the experience a quality one. Like Nightmare said, if we didn't have the sourceports the community woulda been dust by now. Literally. For the old schoolers there are still old engines you can use to play, for new schoolers there's the new engines. To each his own.

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Old Post 06-17-03 14:09 #
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DevastatioN
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Lag Sux:
I ping like 70ms and still find it horrible, most people warp around, ive heard of this problem from others as well.

Aiming sux- No, im not refering to mosuelook, overall aim and how it works with the lag is really annoying to use.

ZDooM still does mess up Map1

I dont beleive that the ports keep the orig DooM feel actually, might be a personal preferance thing tho, DooM2.exe was played for a reason a decade ago and still is today :)

It could use improvements, but the game made it hit the way it was, so I gues sit doesn't really need improvements, except for the Indigo / Green lag and recording lag I suppose.

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Old Post 06-17-03 16:12 #
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boris
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Heh, do you really think id had made Doom the way doom.exe is, if they had the capabilites to make it for example like ZDoom?

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Old Post 06-17-03 18:43 #
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DevastatioN
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dont know, but if they made it like ZDoom would it have been a big of a hit as it was? prolly not, if they had the capability to make it better, u woulda had Quake and Quake2 a few years earlier... thats all heh

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Old Post 06-17-03 19:35 #
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I like zdoom because, mainly at the time I started using it (like 3+ years ago) it had the most features avaliable. It was the first port with scripting and all the like, and personally I can't stand working with the original exe or even Boom any more because it's just too limiting (kudos to those who can tho). On top of that Randy is amazingly receptive to comments and suggestions and bug reports, and it's the most stable and quickest port I have come across, plus it supports Heretic and Hexen.

the only things I don't like about it are some of the old doom limits it carries, such as in ability to add new monsters without replacing old ones, same deal with weapons, etc etc.

Also I'm not quite sure why people seem to think ACS isn't powerful, in fact it's quite powerful. Of course you're only able to alter the level itself (and not play around with sprites, menus and all of that stuff), but thus far I have not run into any problems with figuring out how to do something. Granted it's a lot easier to write stuff if you know C/++ (which I do), so perhaps people's perceptions of ACS are altered by the fact that they aren't programmers. When I take a look at some of my earlier zdoom maps (before I knew C), the scripting is extremly simplistic by comparison to some of the stuff I do today.

On the subject of Legacy, I really like a lot of the features it carries. on paper anyway. Stuff like true 3d, translucent water and so on are all things I'd love to see in zdoom (hehe), but every time I play a legacy map with some of these new features it segfaults every six seconds, which tends to grate on one's nerves.

also while we're on the subject, I'd like to state that doom/2.exe is crap. It's buggy (and I'm not talking about limits like visplanes and hom with too many sidedefs in view), the resolution is atrocious (seriously, what other games do you play in 320x200, how people aren't blind from it is beyond me) and everything is hard coded. everything. it's fucking awful. raven finally generalized stuff with hexen, but standard doom is a perfect example of what not to do if you ever decide to make your own game engine. had id made something like hexen instead of doom (speaking of the engine here, not the game content) I wager doom would have been more popular, plus given it's popularity at the time, I imagine it would have pushed fps games further along than it did since with hexen you can lay out a storyline and do a ton of stuff not possible with original doom. tho I suppose id's affinity for simplistic games with a little story as possible may have shone through anyway. ah well.

edit: goddamn that was a long post, speaking of going blind hehe

Old Post 06-18-03 06:04 #
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