OMFG JDOOM OWNS!!

lol its called a forum for a reason, not a stfu and read novel

Envid said:

Zdoom looks awful compared to Jdoom

No derr, thats because it looks exactly like Doom. The point is not that it looks better than Jdoom, it is simply more customisable. One would hope so too, being that the majority of its development has been focused on just that...

I wont try and force you to like it, I just want you to know that if you dont have it side by side with Jdoom on your computer, well, you're missing out.

So true Chilvence.

Even I have both Doomsday and ZdoomGL side by side on my hd.

Nmn said:

In Short-play regular Doom2 maps with any port You want.
Play Jdoom maps with Jdoom, Zdoom maps with Zdoom, Legacy maps with Legacy. Simple.

Hey waitaminute you spend a whole post explaining that zdoom can play any map and then you say to play every map with their respective ports? Huh? So why even bring it up?

I had zdaemon and regular zdoom back in late 2001... Coming back and seeing that it hasnt changed much since then is not really thrilling although it seems that it caught it quite well especially with the multiplayability and the usable features and I understand what your getting at as a "developer". Hell if I wanted to make my "baby" of a map too Id want as much useability over level creation as anyone. In this case Im not a level designer and have lost my interest since the 90s. I do digital media myself and I find it quite impressive that doom can look this good as far as looks. Also you can customize the hell out of the Jdoom features as danny said with the ded files. Adding frames to weapons, changing their behaviors and how they act.

As a creator of a level I would choose zdoom....

not by much considering the fact that I cant see that many differences in level design there could be except for maybe the fact you can go underwater in the zdoom version. Perhaps a later version of jdoom will implement a water type environment for that very effect to manifest.
As a player of the game (and graphic artist) though, Id choose jdoom

Im not knocking ANY port here.... lol lemme clarify. In my OPINION as far as "OMFG this rocks" I got from jdoom, not zdoom.

Epyo said:

Hey waitaminute you spend a whole post explaining that zdoom can play any map and then you say to play every map with their respective ports? Huh? So why even bring it up?

Sigh...
You gotta be kidding.. :-/
It's obvious to play maps with their respective ports (if they are made for a sourceport). Zdoom will load any map You want-regulars, ZDoom's and other source ports too, but if You play a map for a sourceport, but that port is not Zdoom You won't play correctly, it will lack special features, it'll probably look bad, perhaps You won't even finish the map. The whole thing is interesting but rather pointless. It's just that You can see that it actually loads into Zdoom.

Ok let's be friends.

Envid said:

As a creator of a level I would choose zdoom....

not by much considering the fact that I cant see that many differences in level design there could be except for maybe the fact you can go underwater in the zdoom version.

Heh, no, theres not much difference at all, only the fact that Zdoom's ACS is practically its own programming language. But you can't really do much with that.

Envid said:

As a creator of a level I would choose zdoom....

Nah your just saying that to keep us quiet! Now we must give proof!

Hey chilvence you didn't link me, that's mean :(

I would have had to have written a very long sentence to link every great Zdoom wad ever made ;)

I would look in to zdoom, but looking at just the first map he posted with the marine type wad I was unimpressed and hadnt seen anything you could do with it that you couldnt do with regular doom2

*************
The map is hopefully self explanatory - it's a Zdoom map featuring slopes, a skybox, ambient
sounds and some scripting. There are a lot of windows and computers to smash. :-)

The main change is to the enemies. I did most of them with a minimum of dehacked work - basically
just beefed up versions of existing former humans. There are some more significant changes though.

Pistol marine - basically a slightly faster zombieman with a few more hitpoints
Shotgun marine - shotgun guy with similar treatment
Semi-auto marine - SS Guy with similar treatment - also drops 2 clips instead of 1
Supershotgun marine - even tougher shotgun guy - drops a super shotty - replaces hellknight
Chaingun marine - similarly beefed up chaingun guy
Railgun marine - similar toughness - drops a railgun - modified imp
Plasma marine - modified arachnotron - drops a plasma gun
Rocket Marine 1 - Fires rockets that may or may not home - replaces revenant in the map editor,
but has no punch attack. If using scripting to spawn one, the archvile is used rather than the
revenant as these 2 enemies have been ID swapped.
Rocket Marine 2 - Fires a real rocket, replaces Baron. Note, is momentarily invulnerable whilst
firing to minimise his chance of killing himself with splash damage.

Doberman - Demon with much lower hitpoints and gib frames

Security Remote - Flies, fires a volley of 3 plasma balls (imp fireballs) - replaces lost soul
- has no charge attack, but is quite nasty close up.
Security Droid Mk1 - Flies, fires double volleys of plasma, when it dies it shatters into shrapnel
so don't be standing too close - modified cacodemon
Security Droid Mk2 - Flies, fires rockets which may or may not be homing (revenant attack),
also explodes on death - modified pain elemental
Crusader Robot Mk1 - A thinly disguised mancubus
Crusader Robot Mk2 - A thinly disguised Cyberdemon - much lower HP and has a close attack.

Those tricky scientists - These cowards may have hired the marines, but all they will do
is run away from you. They have no attack, but they are evil. Kill them with impunity.
- replaces the spectre
********************************

Im not saying he is a crappy map maker and Im not dissing anyone's work but Im not going to waste my time with dehacking stuff that i can do with doom2 levels.

Check how many doom, doom2 and heretic levels there are.... Im pretty sure there are enough so that you can play doom from now til you retire and never play them all without the zdoom setting... but we are talking about map creation.

If you actually played (and beat) the map you'de realize it plays much different than the average Doom (2) map.

Yes, I'm not going to be able to cure a case of complete apathy.

Like I said if I were to go with just map making features I would utilize quake 3 or half life and modify it the way I wanted instead of taking doom's sprites and creating a 1992 version of playability.

Doom 3 is hyped up beyond belief due to how graphically intense the game will be, people are going wild just over the screen shots not even playing the map.

As a former-creater of doom2 maps I had a passion for making the levels myself and remember during that time when I did. As far as getting mainstream where players want a more realistic games, ambience, lens flares, fogs, dynamic objects. The map is just the setting. zdoom is still utilizing the same things as jdoom or jhexen. If you REALLY wanted to get crazy with it... modify jhexen with the jdoom features and you have a clone of what zdoom can do, play zdoom/hexen maps, utilize jhexen/doom's graphic ability as where with zdoom the dynamic ability of objects and such are lost.

So technically you can play zdoom maps on jhexen with a modified doom2 object list.

Look, have you even played ZDoom maps like Void, Daedalus and Space Station Omega? You'de realize that that play NOTHING like the old maps (and in some cases, like Void or Daedalus, feel like new games) and are impossible to make in JDoom.

lol alrighty, im gonna test those 2 out then just because they are "impossible" to make via jdoom's "limitations"

http://doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=12227

the right one correct?

Yes.

Heh.

This could be interesting...

JDoom is good for the graphics. Zdoom is good for the gameplay and editing possibilities

Envid said:

Doom 3 is hyped up beyond belief due to how graphically intense the game will be, people are going wild just over the screen shots not even playing the map.

And yet after 10 years of graphically intense games you still find people playing a bit of good old classic Doom. Don't take planetdoom as indicitive of the classic doom fanbase.

Envid said:

As a former-creater of doom2 maps I had a passion for making the levels myself and remember during that time when I did. As far as getting mainstream where players want a more realistic games, ambience, lens flares, fogs, dynamic objects.

I forgive you, since you are obviously new to this place, but what exactly made you think that a place devoted to a 10 year old game is full of mainstream fans that are playing it because of the graphics? You think we're impressed by Zdoom's particle fountains or something?

Envid said:

If you REALLY wanted to get crazy with it... modify jhexen with the jdoom features and you have a clone of what zdoom can do

All you are really showing how little research you are prepared to make before arguing. Zdoom is not just Doom with Hexen's map format tacked on the end, it has such a multitude of other enhancements that it is wholly incompatible with plain Hexen. Even the ACS interpreter is different (and has about ten times the flexibility).

By the way, read the credits for all the jdoom addons carefully again, you'll find my name listed on more than one occasion.

Jdoom is quite nice, though it isn't really a source port I use often.I would use it more often if there was more jdoom specific stuff.And if I really want to play doom with nice gfx I can just buy doom3 when it comes out(but my money would be wasted because Hl2 will get all the awards ;P).Zdoom can do a lot that jdoom can't,aside from graphics.And it should considering zdoom has been around for quite some time.

well anyways try this out:

http://www.teamtnt.com/doom2000/

It's made by team tnt,maybe you've heard of them,maybe you haven't.Or check out this :

http://www.zdoom.org/wiki/index.php?title=WADs_created_for_ZDoom

If you still don't like zdoom,well it won't bother me a bit.It's your loss.

It bothers me silly, though maybe it shouldnt. Why people would choose to use just one certain port and devalue every single other one is beyond me though. Its all the same game at the end of the day.

Jdoom is awesome in terms of graphics.. but when it comes to stability and compatibility it fails.. To my knowledge it is the only port that has 0% for boom (which is basically standardized doom) and many mods crash, as jdoom cannot handle the detail or special effects.. Zdoom gets my vote as being the best all around port due to it's stability and compatibility with everything.. and it's new mapping features are unmatched. Who knows one day Zdoom-gl may be able to compete graphically with jdoom.

And yet after 10 years of graphically intense games you still find people playing a bit of good old classic Doom. Don't take planetdoom as indicitive of the classic doom fanbase.

What do you think Jdoom is? monopoly? Please re-read my quote and then create your debate....dont force words I didnt express out of my mouth. Just because you took it personally doesnt mean I said it. I was referring to Doom 3 not negativity towards old doomers.

I forgive you, since you are obviously new to this place, but what exactly made you think that a place devoted to a 10 year old game is full of mainstream fans that are playing it because of the graphics? You think we're impressed by Zdoom's particle fountains or something?

Forgive me? It doesnt take a veteran of the doomworld forums to see that your trying to create static where there wasnt any in the first place. I want a sensible debate, not mud slinging, or name calling.
Zdoom wasnt originally for the flexibility of map editing.... that came later.

All you are really showing how little research you are prepared to make before arguing. Zdoom is not just Doom with Hexen's map format tacked on the end, it has such a multitude of other enhancements that it is wholly incompatible with plain Hexen. Even the ACS interpreter is different (and has about ten times the flexibility).

Look at the beginning of the forum when I first brought it up. Ive been filled in slowly but surely as what a debate is for. No need to bring up how "little" research Ive gone in to a simple map prog that gives results I am not inspired by.

As far as the "void" goes I felt like back in the old 90s again.
Same as before:
Using 256 color textures from hexen, heretic, and doom merged some customized
Hue/saturation/color changes for existing textures
eg:the imp

Interesting things-

Animating background: was new and I believe that jdoom can do that by adding frames in a ded file for the sky (i have only had this port for 2 days and havnt considered editing just yet so Im not quite sure)

Camera movements:
I know there is a camera feature in jdoom although I dont know if a config file can manuever it like a movie.

Story line via mp3/wav similar format:
Very nicely done to go with the panoramic
Easily done in jdoom

Mirror effect:
I have no clue if there is a reflective property for jdoom, if not perhaps a transparent window with the same room opposing it mimicing the player being created whenever the player enters the room and being destroyed when out of "line of site" (to avoid inconsistencies)

Different guns:
Cute... looked a little weird but I guess it worked

Circular tube:
The fact that it pulls the marine to the right is different and have no clue as to how to make that work.

falling death:
Clever but can be easily done setting the poison to +10000 damage, lights off -255, (my map skills are fuzzy since its been a while) which is activated when the player hits -500 level that they teleport to the "no light room" with the poison. The player with the animation is already running in place and use the "conveyer belt" setting to move him away with a timer.

All in all it doesnt matter how creative you can be with the map. The fun factor for the player has to be considered, This map looks more like the creator had a field day with it and I can see he was extremely creative when he did it using the limited resources that he had.

Void does NOT look like it's own game and hardly anything is impossible to do on it with a regular doom 2 wad editor let alone utilizing jdoom's features.

Perhaps people havnt heard me or read the forums above this one. I had zdoom back in 2001. It was impressive for 2001 just for the simple fact it antialiased things and with "zdaemon" which i think isnt used any more it was great for deathmatching.

This assumption that ive never used any other ports is indeed funny and shows people's lack of comprehension skills. It is not my fault that you glanced over it or just skipped to the bottom.

Ports ive used are

Legacy
Boom
Zdoom

During the early stages in 2001

When I wanted to see how zdoom was shaping up I downloaded it and used it and wasnt impressed so i looked to see if anyone else made a new or different port that utilized 3d modeling, rendering and absolute flexibility with the features.

Bingo... I go jdoom which half of you cant run because your on what? A 386/33 with 16 megs of ram and windows 3.1? I understand now why you guys choose zdoom. Not only the increased flexibility of the map making features but also you can run it on an ancient system.

lol during this whole time I have yet to see any of you hold water with your debate about how zdoom can be so much better. Its just more mainstream like microsoft operating systems and so is universal to most of the editors utilizing it.

Jesus. You sound like some sort of JDoom fanboy. Have you even tried some of the stuff you've decribed? Make a map that shows some of the stuff and show it to me. Then I'll be impressed. Doesn't have to be a playable map.

Or because ZDoom has scriptable enemies, weapons*, and artifacts*, slopes, high-res sprites, support for Heretic and Hexen and limited Strife support, the ability to pull any object from Doom/Heretic/Hexen/Strife into any game, extended ACS scripting, decal, key configure, decorative, and terrain lumps, an online up-to-date documentation, extended DeHacked and BEX, skyboxes, portals*, bots, and a large fanbase with many many maps made for ZDoom.

I believe jDoom has... ugly models and lens flares.

* = in the next version

lol just seeing alot of editors get mad because I think something is better than zdoom's ancient graphics and interface.

I dont feel like making a whole map right now but Im sure I can spare some time just to make a regular doom2 wad and recreate the falling and dying effect, the mirror effect, and the animated background.

If you were even half knowledgable in map editing it can easily be done.

mirror effect:
take one of the half transparent windows/walls/bars and make it completely transparent except for the "white reflection" with a texture around it in the form of a mirror

duplicate the room your in on the other side hidden by the map so it wont "appear"

Stepping on the sector entering the room creates the marine on other side given the same property as the player.

Stepping on the sector leaving the room destroys the mirror

Thats with just regular doom2.