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Mike.Reiner
Member

Posts: 284
Registered: 01-05

leileilol said:

yes

no db07x recording of that though, you'll have to compare it yourself

pardon the noise while I only have a SB Live to work with from recording directly from another sound card. It has signal noise.

Jesus christ, 0:17 and beyond blows dosbox out of the water completely. The ringing is completely messed up in dosbox.

myk said:
Put the patches in a folder, copy the timidity.cfg file and paste a copy along with TiMidity (this could be TiMidity++, a SDL-using source port, the TiMidity Randy Heit hacked for ZDoom, or DOSBox). Edit the dir entry in the CFG to point to the patches folder, and uncomment any additional CFGs used (such as for the drums and sfx patches; these CFGs go in the patches dir... I think they're there already in the package exp(x) linked).

Thanks, that worked perfectly.

Last edited by Mike.Reiner on 08-07-08 at 22:53

08-07-08 22:40 #

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entryway
Senior Member

Posts: 1259
Registered: 01-04

One thing I can't understand is how chocolate-doom works in principle.

code:wad->wad.mapped = MapViewOfFile(wad->handle_map, FILE_MAP_READ, 0, 0, 0);
...
void *W_CacheLumpNum(int lumpnum, int tag)
{
  if (lump->wad_file->mapped != NULL)
     result = lump->wad_file->mapped + lump->position;
..
data = W_CacheLumpNum (lump,PU_STATIC);
mt = (mapthing_t *)data;
mt->x = SHORT(mt->x);
...
blockmaplump = W_CacheLumpNum (lump,PU_LEVEL);
for (i=0 ; i<count ; i++)
  blockmaplump[i] = SHORT(blockmaplump[i]);

How such code can work? It crashes for me immediately. I had to do some changes in p_setup, before I could do my tests with SVN sources

08-08-08 13:40 #

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Csonicgo
This post is probably useless

Posts: 1779
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I support Accurate OPL Emulation. In fact I've been one of the few who have begged fraggle to look into it (even getting him to dissect the GENMIDI lumps ;) )

Just because Timidity's there doesn't mean we shouldn't have OPL emulation. That's just silly.

Leileilol, zdoom emulates that "ringing" sound pretty well, in fact it's the same---- but you know, that stupid MAME licence.

EDIT: Actually no, the High frequency cutoff is too low. I'll have to talk with Randy about that.

Bashe said:
Oh god.

I haven't heard REAL opl like that in years...

The sawtooth instrument is x10 better in true opl too.

I don't know why the OPL chip was deprecated. I personally think they could still be used in _some_ applications. I'd think it'd be a cheap, effective method of music generation - but since mpeg, I guess it was thrown out. :(

I also blame Mp3 for the deprecation of MIDI as a standard in international music competitions. ;) (nah, you can't record note velocity in an MP3 File.)

Last edited by Csonicgo on 08-08-08 at 15:12

08-08-08 15:04 #

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myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep

Posts: 10410
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Csonicgo said:
Just because Timidity's there doesn't mean we shouldn't have OPL emulation. That's just silly.

Quite true (though I don't think anyone really argued against supporting and improving it). Besides, it requires no extra files to download and install, is less resource intensive, and emulates something pretty representative as far as playing DOOM in DOS is concerned.

08-08-08 15:55 #

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Graf Zahl
Forum Legend

Posts: 4194
Registered: 01-03

Csonicgo said:

I don't know why the OPL chip was deprecated. I personally think they could still be used in _some_ applications. I'd think it'd be a cheap, effective method of music generation - but since mpeg, I guess it was thrown out. :(

I also blame Mp3 for the deprecation of MIDI as a standard in international music competitions. ;) (nah, you can't record note velocity in an MP3 File.)

You should face the facts: Both of these are relics of the past. In today's world of multimedia they have no place.

The biggest shortcoming of MIDI is that it sounds different everywhere because it depends on external data by default. I think there's a reason why most musicians prefer module formats if they don't choose waveform based sound.

08-08-08 16:45 #

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fraggle
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Posts: 4352
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entryway said:
How such code can work? It crashes for me immediately. I had to do some changes in p_setup, before I could do my tests with SVN sources

It's memory-mapped WAD I/O that uses the OS's virtual memory system to map lumps from WADs. PrBoom has it as well. You can disable it with -nommap on the command line, although it's rather worrying that you're experiencing problems in the first place. I haven't had any other reports of problems with it so far. Random thought: Are you building under MSVC? Perhaps that might be causing problems.

08-08-08 18:24 #

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esselfortium
Senior Member

Posts: 1818
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Csonicgo said:
I don't know why the OPL chip was deprecated. I personally think they could still be used in _some_ applications. I'd think it'd be a cheap, effective method of music generation - but since mpeg, I guess it was thrown out. :(

I also blame Mp3 for the deprecation of MIDI as a standard in international music competitions. ;) (nah, you can't record note velocity in an MP3 File.)

I strongly disagree.

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08-08-08 18:28 #

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entryway
Senior Member

Posts: 1259
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fraggle said:
PrBoom has it as well.

PrBoom uses:

mapthing_t mt = data[k];
mt.x = SHORT(mt.x);

fraggle said:
Are you building under MSVC?

Yes, of course.

Last edited by entryway on 08-08-08 at 19:06

08-08-08 18:54 #

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fraggle
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I don't have MSVC so I can't really fix the problem, unfortunately. If you can work out a fix, let me know and I'll incorporate it. Sorry :-(

08-08-08 19:19 #

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Gez
Member

Posts: 382
Registered: 07-07

What about MSVC Express? It's a free download. (Of course you still need to have Windows.)

08-08-08 19:40 #

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fraggle
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Gez said:
What about MSVC Express? It's a free download. (Of course you still need to have Windows.)

I think I tried it once and couldn't get it to compile, although that was before the MSVC project files were added. Honestly, though, spending time supporting multiple compilers and build systems seems like a waste when I could be doing far more productive things (like adding OPL support ;-)

Basically, I build Chocolate Doom under Windows with gcc and MSYS. There are project files for building under Codeblocks and MSVC, but I make no guarantees whatsoever that these will work at all. Other people created them. I don't use them. Spending time maintaining them isn't something I'm interested in doing.

08-08-08 19:53 #

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Csonicgo
This post is probably useless

Posts: 1779
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esselfortium said:

I strongly disagree.

I suppose you haven't participated in an international piano competition? We were required to send in Midi files. Anyone caught tweaking them would be disqualified. that means any bad key press would bring down your score.

EDIT: ok I get what you're saying, but there's gotta be a use for them somewhere. perhaps in some kind of tech project for kids. They seem simple enough.

Last edited by Csonicgo on 08-08-08 at 20:44

08-08-08 20:24 #

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entryway
Senior Member

Posts: 1259
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fraggle said:
I don't have MSVC so I can't really fix the problem, unfortunately. If you can work out a fix, let me know and I'll incorporate it. Sorry :-(

http://prboom-plus.sourceforge.net/chocolate_map.png

with FILE_MAP_ALL_ACCESS instead of FILE_MAP_READ all works without crashes

Last edited by entryway on 08-08-08 at 20:45

08-08-08 20:37 #

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myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep

Posts: 10410
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Csonicgo said:
but there's gotta be a use for them somewhere. perhaps in some kind of tech project for kids.

Heh, the DOOM community, for one.

08-08-08 20:46 #

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fraggle
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entryway said:

http://prboom-plus.sourceforge.net/chocolate_map.png

with FILE_MAP_ALL_ACCESS instead of FILE_MAP_READ all works without crashes

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks! I wonder why it worked in MingW but not MSVC ...

08-08-08 23:36 #

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entryway
Senior Member

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fraggle said:
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!

I did not read the documentation, so this fix is on your conscience :)

fraggle said:
I wonder why it worked in MingW but not MSVC ...

I can't understand too.

08-08-08 23:42 #

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leileilol
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Posts: 2437
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Graf Zahl said:

You should face the facts: Both of these are relics of the past.

well so is Doom for that matter, but that doesn't stop you from posting such 'ugh past' crap in a thread about a port that's intended to be Doom as it was played back then.
why don't you move up to Quake 4 or something.

Timidity or any wavetable is not a substitute for OPL.

08-09-08 00:05 #

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Graf Zahl
Forum Legend

Posts: 4194
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Congratulations for being yourself again and (intentionally?) not understanding the meaning of what I was saying.

Yes, Doom is a relic of the past, too, so obviously these old music formats still have a place here - but everyone with half a brain should have the capacity to see that some old games that are still being played by a small group of people are not enough to keep such formats alive in the mainstream.

08-09-08 00:12 #

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fraggle
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entryway said:

I did not read the documentation, so this fix is on your conscience :)

I read through before I committed the fix, so I think it's correct.

One thing that is slightly worrying: this issue came up because the WAD lumps are being modified, and the WADs were mapped as read-only. The level loading code is apparently modifying the lumps when it loads them to do endianness conversions. On an x86 machine, there is no conversion, as the data is stored in little endian in the WADs anyway. However, what happens on big endian machines (eg. PowerPC) when you load a level twice? Bad things, I think. Perhaps I should fix this properly :-)

08-09-08 13:31 #

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entryway
Senior Member

Posts: 1259
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fraggle said:
However, what happens on big endian machines (eg. PowerPC) when you load a level twice? Bad things, I think. Perhaps I should fix this properly :-)

prboom's code is simple and correct in all cases.

Last edited by entryway on 08-09-08 at 14:13

08-09-08 13:45 #

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fraggle
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entryway said:
I can't understand too.

I think that the endianness conversion code has been optimised out by the compiler. I tried (under OSX) making the mapped pages read only and compiling with -O0 (optimisation disabled) and it crashes when loading the levels. Under x86, the conversion code has no effect, so it makes sense for the compiler to remove it. I guess MSVC doesn't do this, or the optimisation level isn't high enough for it to be doing it.

I reworked the problem code in p_setup.c so this is fixed properly now.

08-09-08 19:12 #

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entryway
Senior Member

Posts: 1259
Registered: 01-04

fraggle said:
I think that the endianness conversion code has been optimised out by the compiler. I tried (under OSX) making the mapped pages read only and compiling with -O0 (optimisation disabled) and it crashes when loading the levels.

Finally I have understood that "paradox". After two days. :) I used your sources only in debug in MSVC and of course it had to crash in this case.

In release such code:

code:#define SHORT(x)  ((signed short) SDL_SwapLE16(x))
#define SDL_SwapLE16(X)	(X)

mt->x = SHORT(mt->x);

turns to nothing and nothing happens (in 'correct' endian)

It is an example how optimization can hide bugs

08-10-08 14:57 #

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funduke
Member

Posts: 321
Registered: 02-04

funduke said:
... Out of technical interest:
How has this chex.deh been created?

fraggle said:
I wrote some scripts to dump the state and mobjinfo tables from doom2.exe and chex.exe, and then used the standard Unix 'diff' tool to compare them. [/B]

If you can get the dehacked-relevant information from Chex Quest in that way, you might also be able to do the same with Heretic v. 1.3.
Mike Fredericks (Gokuma) modified dehacked for Strife: http://www.doomworld.com/sehacked/ .
So, what about getting all relevant dehacked-information with your scripts from heretic 1.3, Chex Quest and the latest Strife and then creating a new dehacked-version, that can read and write patches for Doom 1.9, Ultimate, Final and also Heretic 1.3, Chex Quest and also the latest Strife version?
The output from that new dehacked version would be the perfect base for use with source ports, because it's related to the vanilla versions, that are a minimal standard.
But possibly was it only that *relatively* easy (it wouldn't be easy for me! ;)), because Chex Quest is so close to Doom. But anyhow, a special dehacked version for it, just like sehacked, would be great.

Greetings
Funduke

08-13-08 06:56 #

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Quasar
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Posts: 2202
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Chex Quest was just an in-place modification. Heretic, Hexen, and Strife are completely reprogrammed. They don't just replace Doom's stuff by overwriting it - the arrays of states, things, sprites, etc. are completely different and new. In most cases, the structures making up the arrays aren't even the same size because they store different data. An example would be the flags2 field in Heretic and Hexen's mobjinfo structure.

So in short, what you are suggesting here makes no sense. Sorry.

08-13-08 07:13 #

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Gez
Member

Posts: 382
Registered: 07-07

Plus they use new codepointers -- as powerful as DeHackEd is, it can't create new codepointers, can it?

08-13-08 13:44 #

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Quasar
Moderator

Posts: 2202
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It's a bit of a shame that there was never an effort to make a more powerful executable editor, one that could inject code hacks. Given what we know about the engine now, it would be relatively easy to make one. Of course now, it's useless to do so with easily modifiable source ports running amok :P

Some heavy reverse engineering work could have made some VERY interesting things possible.

08-13-08 20:08 #

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Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments

Posts: 1285
Registered: 10-05

It might be a good thing that the capability of DeHackEd stops where it does. If it was capable of removing limits and adding extra frames, then wads that use DeHackEd patches would feel much less "vanilla" then they currently do. Though I guess I would feel that those features are "vanilla" if that capability had always been the norm.

08-13-08 20:51 #

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Gez
Member

Posts: 382
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It probably would have made DeHackEd support more difficult for source ports.

08-13-08 22:00 #

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esselfortium
Senior Member

Posts: 1818
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We could have ended up like the Wolf3D community, where just about every mod comes with and requires its own custom-modded version of the game EXE. D:

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08-13-08 22:05 #

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leileilol
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esselfortium said:
We could have ended up like the Wolf3D community, where just about every mod comes with and requires its own custom-modded version of the game EXE. D:

Not to mention the even lower standard intelligence/quality bar and higher manipulative ignorance bar

08-14-08 00:07 #

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