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fraggle
Filled with the code of Doom


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EarthQuake said:
I have a question concerning the -merge parameter:
Can ANY wad file be "merged into the iwad" and multiple ones as well?
Basically, what's the difference between -file and -merge, other than -file not loading sprites?

-merge is the same as -file in that it loads a WAD file. However, any sprites in sections marked with S_START..S_END or SS_START..SS_END are inserted into the main sprites directory in the IWAD. So to answer your question, there is no difference except that it loads sprites.

Old Post Oct 24 2005 07:47 #
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myk
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In Doom -file will load flats only if they are between FF_START and F_END, but not between other combinations (such as FF_START and FF_END), which require either marker renaming or merging. This would matter to an author testing to make sure the wad works with Doom, and how.

Old Post Oct 24 2005 15:30 #
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fraggle
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myk said:
In Doom -file will load flats only if they are between FF_START and F_END, but not between other combinations (such as FF_START and FF_END), which require either marker renaming or merging. This would matter to an author testing to make sure the wad works with Doom, and how.

Oh yeah, it merges flats as well.

Old Post Oct 24 2005 19:01 #
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udderdude
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Chocolate Doom gives me a big nostalgic hard-on. Two thumbs way up. :O

Old Post Oct 24 2005 20:14 #
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RjY
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Has anybody made a "Chocolate Doom is flavour of the month" joke yet

Old Post Oct 24 2005 20:58 #
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Siggi
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I think you are the first...

Old Post Oct 24 2005 21:22 #
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myk
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Given Doom has support for Gravis UltraSound, isn't it sensible to give Chocolate Doom TiMidity playback (like PrBoom's), which is pretty much the same except in a software instead of a hardware environment? Also, isn't that the ideal option for SDL-based music in Linux?

Old Post Oct 25 2005 00:48 #
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fraggle
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myk said:
Given Doom has support for Gravis UltraSound, isn't it sensible to give Chocolate Doom TiMidity playback (like PrBoom's), which is pretty much the same except in a software instead of a hardware environment? Also, isn't that the ideal option for SDL-based music in Linux?

Chocolate Doom uses SDL_mixer, just like Prboom, so it supports it as well. I use timidity under Linux for music.

Old Post Oct 25 2005 07:57 #
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Xanthier
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okay, call me an idiot but I don't understand the attraction with these ports that are "closest to the original doom.exe" I don't even really know what that means because they all seem so similar to me, I'd like someone to try and explain what exactly that feel is, is it just oldschool? that can't be it or people would just play doom.exe. Enlighten me please.

Old Post Oct 27 2005 19:57 #
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Bashe
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Doom(2).exe does not work on Windows XP or 2000 under certain circumstances and some people like the Vanilla feel of Doom, so this is where this port and others come it to emulate the feeling of the Vanilla games.

Old Post Oct 27 2005 23:20 #
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myk
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Xanthier said:
Enlighten me please.
I don't think so. If you're interested in the matter the best thing you can do is try the so-called "vanilla-like" engines. With that, and if you look at this thread or any discussions related to compatibilities or "Doom-like" features or fixes, it should all become pretty evident.

If one uses or has used Doom or Doom95 extensively, one can clearly tell both the added features, the similarities, and the differences in "more advanced" and more or less classic engines appart.

Half of the things said on this thread, even, are about how certain features or functionalities are akin to, or different than, Doom's.

Old Post Oct 28 2005 00:25 #
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fraggle
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Xanthier said:
okay, call me an idiot but I don't understand the attraction with these ports that are "closest to the original doom.exe" I don't even really know what that means because they all seem so similar to me, I'd like someone to try and explain what exactly that feel is, is it just oldschool? that can't be it or people would just play doom.exe. Enlighten me please.

Well, the first thing is that you can't run the original Doom any more (it doesn't work properly in XP). Therefore ports are the only option to playing Doom. All of the existing ports change something somewhere - even PrBoom, which does a great job of maintaining backwards compatibility.

It's amazing some of the things which have been done with the Doom engine since the source was released. We have ports like JDoom with flashy GL effects and 3D models. We have ports like ZDoom with scripting engines that let us make levels that were impossible before. EDGE lets the entire game behaviour be changed just be editing a text file. I'm not saying any of these things are bad things. They have extended and expanded what we think of as "Doom", and if anything, they've kept the game alive for all this time. I don't want people to think that I'm some kind of elitist who believes that all ports are evil.

However, I think we shouldn't lose sight of where it all came from, where it all started. I just want to remind people that you can play Doom without all these things. I want to preserve the original gameplay so that if people want to, they can go back and play it as it originally was.

There are some more reasons on the about page.

Actually, the real reason is that I came up with the name "Chocolate Doom", and it was so cool that I had to create a port named that.

Old Post Oct 29 2005 12:45 #
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TheDarkArchon
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fraggle said:
* link to Chocolate Doom wiki *

Gotta love that imp

fraggle said:
I don't want people to think that I'm some kind of elitist who believes that all ports are evil.

No need to say that: Said people would be reminded about SMMU and FS. :)

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Last edited by TheDarkArchon on Oct 29 2005 at 13:03

Old Post Oct 29 2005 12:54 #
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Grazza
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fraggle said:
Ok, I've fixed these two bugs. Scientist 2 plays now.

When will this amended version be available? The download page still only mentions version 0.1.1, dated 2005-10-18.

fraggle said:
All of the existing ports change something somewhere - even PrBoom, which does a great job of maintaining backwards compatibility.

It would be useful if you could cite (here or in a more Prboom-related thread) any differences in behaviour with -complevel 1 in prboom-plus. I am aware of:
  • inability to save (other than using -record and -recordfrom)
  • some failings in dehacked support
  • inability to emulate memory-trashing bugs (like ChocDoom)
  • inability to get a quick start (of the type you can in Doom2.exe)
  • misc unexplained desyncs (e.g. on hr18)

Old Post Oct 29 2005 12:56 #
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fraggle
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Grazza said:
When will this amended version be available? The download page still only mentions version 0.1.1, dated 2005-10-18.

Yeah sorry, I've been a bit distracted over the past few days. I need to fix one more bug and I'll try to get another release out then.

Old Post Oct 29 2005 13:00 #
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VinceDSS
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will there be a chocolate heretic or prheretic one day ?

Old Post Oct 29 2005 15:46 #
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myk
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VinceDSS said:
will there be a chocolate heretic or prheretic one day ?
That's unfortunately unlikely because of Heretic's "Raven" license (instead of the GPL.)

Old Post Oct 29 2005 17:51 #
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fraggle
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VinceDSS said:
will there be a chocolate heretic or prheretic one day ?

I personally have no interest in maintaining anything except a straight Doom port.

Old Post Oct 29 2005 20:31 #
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ducon
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myk said:
That's unfortunately unlikely because of Heretic's "Raven" license (instead of the GPL.)

Damn, so we won’t see no Quake 4 source code one day under GPL… :-(

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Old Post Oct 29 2005 21:06 #
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fraggle
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Grazza said:
When will this amended version be available? The download page still only mentions version 0.1.1, dated 2005-10-18.

I just released 0.1.2, which has these fixes in.


It would be useful if you could cite (here or in a more Prboom-related thread) any differences in behaviour with -complevel 1 in prboom-plus. I am aware of:
  • inability to save (other than using -record and -recordfrom)
  • some failings in dehacked support
  • inability to emulate memory-trashing bugs (like ChocDoom)
  • inability to get a quick start (of the type you can in Doom2.exe)
  • misc unexplained desyncs (e.g. on hr18)

I am unsure what you're asking here. Is this list a list of failings in PrBoom, or in Chocolate Doom? Can you explain these a bit better?

Re: hr18. Do you mean this demo? I tried this and it appears to go out of sync, but the behavior is the same in Chocolate Doom, PrBoom _and_ doom2.exe.

Do you have a list of demos which PrBoom does not play back properly? This would be most helpful. Thanks.

Last edited by fraggle on Oct 29 2005 at 23:24

Old Post Oct 29 2005 23:14 #
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myk
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fraggle said:
Re: hr18. Do you mean this demo? I tried this and it appears to go out of sync, but the behavior is the same in Chocolate Doom, PrBoom _and_ doom2.exe.
If it also desynched in Doom2 for you it's likely one of those that desynch on some systems and not others; also they might synch if you move them around to a different dir, apparently. These have never worked on anything but Doom, though. An example of a demo that displays this relative behavior is Vile's HR2 beta level 32 recording, h2322437.

Old Post Oct 29 2005 23:52 #
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Grazza
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fraggle said:
I am unsure what you're asking here. Is this list a list of failings in PrBoom, or in Chocolate Doom? Can you explain these a bit better?

It's a list of issues known to me in which Prboom-plus (with -complevel 1) fails to emulate the physical in-game behaviour of Doom2.exe. I'm asking if you're aware of others. I mentioned these issues so that you wouldn't need to duplicate them in your list.

Hr map18 is a map on which a lot of demos have such playback problems. The one you linked to is one example. It plays back fine for me in Doom2.exe, but desyncs in everything else that can normally play back Doom2.exe demos that I have tried. Interestingly, it desyncs in a different way in Chocolate Doom from the way it does in Prboom and Eternity (in the latter two the player gets snagged on a decoration whereas in Doom2.exe he doesn't; this happens later in the demo than the point where it desyncs in ChocDoom 0.1.1).

fraggle said:
Do you have a list of demos which PrBoom does not play back properly? This would be most helpful. Thanks.

There aren't too many that I can think of - they've done a pretty good job of squishing the main problems. The biggest class of demos that don't work are ones for things like Hacx, where bugs in the dehacked support let Prboom down, and ones where there are map issues, such as (presumably) on hr18. IIRC there was also a full-game coop involving Vince that screwed up on map30. Give me a while and I'll provide a list of a few specific ones.

Old Post Oct 30 2005 01:40 #
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fraggle
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Thanks for the information. It does seem that this HR18 thing looks like some weird map bug. Myk mentioned that it behaves differently in different environments, and indeed, the demo desyncs in doom2.exe for me (running under Windows XP). I have my doubts as to whether it's really possible to fix this, as it probably relies on the specific memory layout of the executable.

Old Post Oct 30 2005 01:55 #
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Janizdreg
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Can Chocolate Doom emulate the Final Doom teleporter bug and the pre- (or post, whichever it does by default) Ultimate Doom Lost Soul behaviour?

Last edited by Janizdreg on Nov 3 2005 at 19:46

Old Post Nov 3 2005 19:29 #
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Grazza
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See README.txt, included in the package:
code:
-gameversion <ver> Emulates a specific release of Doom 1.9. Valid values are "1.9", "ultimate" and "final".

Old Post Nov 3 2005 20:02 #
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Janizdreg
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Thanks, missed that one.

So is 1.9 emulated by default?

Old Post Nov 3 2005 20:13 #
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Grazza
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Not sure, haven't tested (easy enough to test though). My guess would be that the default is based on the choice of iwad, but the command-line option (if included) overrides it. At least, it certainly ought to be that way.

Old Post Nov 3 2005 20:21 #
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fraggle
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It is selected by the IWAD being used unless overridden by the command line. Registered/Shareware Doom/Doom II use 1.9, Ultimate uses Ultimate, Final uses Final.

Old Post Nov 4 2005 11:36 #
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myk
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Will Chocolate have PC speaker sound support? Is that possible to code? This thread shows an instance where it would make a difference.

Old Post Nov 8 2005 02:44 #
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EarthQuake
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Sorry to bring this up again, but I had high hopes for this source port. Is there any interest in finding a solution to the problem I brought up?

I did manage to find out a few more things about the issue at hand though:

1. The left shift key is unaffected by this bug; I can retain my speed with the left shift key.

2. The problem isn't specific to any one keyboard. I've tried three of them with all returning the same results.

Old Post Nov 8 2005 04:01 #
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