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sector666
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The worst annoyance I can think of is anything with a period of invincibility I find to be mostly just a dumb waste of time. Cheshires are the worst culprit if I remember right but anything with "wait time" just seems to slow things down when playing Scoredoom. Maybe the invincibility periods should be removed from some enemies, like tornado and cheshire?

Old Post 05-21-11 22:32 #
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Megamur
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I tend to agree. It doesn't make the enemies harder, really. It just screws with the killing pace.

Old Post 05-21-11 23:31 #
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gun_psycho
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@sector666 The chesires were removed if I remember correctly... from the official spawning, anyway. The poes are probably just as bad as they can split into multiple copies when they disappear, and the real one has the ungodly annoying habit of disappearing right when you're about to shoot him.

Old Post 05-22-11 00:01 #
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Megamur
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It's strange how switching No Infighting Mode on or off seems to not take effect until you restart ScoreDoom.

Old Post 05-22-11 00:37 #
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gun_psycho
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It's probably to prevent the modes from overlapping with each other, or something like that.

Speaking of modes, I would save the Hardcore no-infighting mode for the much more manageable megawads... since WOS in those two modes with the add-on pack was really tough, especially towards the end.

Old Post 05-22-11 03:32 #
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BilboHicks
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I will be offline for a little while. Will keep your feedback in mind.

Old Post 05-23-11 21:22 #
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Brewtal_Legend
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Haven't tried myself yet, but has anyone else tried running dm maps in scoredoom with the addon pack? Does it spawn monsters on the level?

Always thought it would be cool to play some dm maps solo with random monsters spawning. Similar to the DMSP mod for Quake.

Old Post 05-24-11 03:53 #
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sector666
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Scoredoom won't spawn a monster anywhere that a monster wasn't already placed in the level, so... I'm not sure.

What you want to do sounds interesting. I think it might actually be possible to be put in Scoredoom (there's some discussion about this same thing here for Zdoom). Even if deathmatch starts can't be converted to monsters because they aren't actually Things (I don't quite understand that), some of the weapons could just be converted to monsters instead.

Maybe that could be done with a Scoredoom config (ini) file which replaces some percentage of weapons with monsters. But I'm not sure if Scoredoom lets you replace weapons/items with monsters. I don't think it currently does.

I would enjoy seeing something like the discussion here in Scoredoom though. It might make for a nice last addition to Scoredoom, being able to play deathmatch levels with monsters like that, but whether Bilbo would be interested in putting something like that in or not I don't know.


P.S. the first solution I thought of was this, but it wouldn't be necessary if the config file thing does work:
If you really want you could open a level editor and place a monster spawner + spawn spots in a level, then go play with random monsters on. That would only work for Doom II obviously, and I believe you have to put an Icon of Sin somewhere as well to activate the spawning.

Old Post 05-24-11 09:00 #
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Megamur
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sector666 said:
I would enjoy seeing something like the discussion here in Scoredoom though.


That sounds a lot like Skulltag's Invasion mode.

Also, I take back what I said before: if you turn on No Infighting mode, the add-on pack becomes quite a challenge indeed. E3M9 of School Doom becomes pretty intense when set up that way, and the level design shines in a way that it never really managed with the original monsters.

Does ScoreDoom not save high scores internally? I really wish there were "local high scores" so I can still compete against myself offline.

Old Post 06-01-11 23:13 #
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evouga
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There are definitely local high scores. But maybe when you play online, those scores don't also get saved to your local profile?

Old Post 06-01-11 23:30 #
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Megamur
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I guess I never noticed. It seems like it always says, "LEVEL/EPISODE SCORE BEATEN" no matter what.

Old Post 06-01-11 23:53 #
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gun_psycho
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The online high score thing only works if the megawads run are supported by the leaderboards, like the Memento Mori series for instance. You should see how many megawads I've beaten so far. http://www.scoredoom.com/ni/wad_main.php?&addonpack=1 (I go by the name Deathhand, by the way)

Old Post 06-02-11 00:44 #
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BilboHicks
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Megamur said:
I guess I never noticed. It seems like it always says, "LEVEL/EPISODE SCORE BEATEN" no matter what.


Yes there are local hi scores if you want to play offline. They ares wtored in your ini file. When you first play a wad/level that has no hi score set yet, you will see "LEVEL/EPISODE SCORE BEATEN" as you accrue points. Next time you play that level you will see the initial hi score(s) you set on the HUD for you to beat.

Old Post 06-02-11 10:02 #
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Megamur
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It seems to be okay now. I guess I just misread something or quit my game before finishing the episode or something like that.

It's the funniest thing in the world when one of those exploding suicide bomber guys spawn in areas where they can't actually reach you, so they just run around, screaming, for the entire map duration.

Old Post 06-02-11 22:50 #
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BilboHicks
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Good news. The crashes and missing textures in Deus Vult 2 when playing with the add-on pack have been fixed. This took me a while to locate, but now this brilliant megawad is playable with the add-on pack.

Really all that is left is add-on pack tweaking, and some other small stuff, then updating the hi score server.
Doubtful I will do anything with DM maps to be honest, but the idea sounds cool. I just want to get this last release done and out the door :P

I'm tempted to make the 'official' hi score sever add-on pack & config more doom-like, and get rid of monsters like the imp warrior, bone dragon, etc. and straight rips from other games as well. Really, how do you justify a dude in robes running around straight from the game Blood? :P Some re-colored/re-textured rips will stay. Thoughts? Oh yeah, enemies that go invulnerable, even momentarily, suck, they will be gone, or will have invuln removed/replaced. Also that green arch-spawner is gone, it looks crap. The bats are definitely gone!

Of course the add-on pack will still have them, so you can re-add them for your own custom games.
I'm gunning for a release by the end of the month/early July.

Old Post 06-03-11 04:46 #
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Megamur
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All sound like good fixes to me. There's still a wide variety of baddies to contend with, so dropping a few won't hurt. And the monsters that go invulnerable definitely need to have their invulnerability stripped or at least toned down. That kind of enemy behavior doesn't work with this style of gameplay that encourages fast-paced, constant killing, and can really mess with your score multipliers.

Old Post 06-03-11 04:58 #
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gun_psycho
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If that means the tornado demon's going away, then I won't be missing it all that much, seeing that I hated the damn thing with a passion. (As if my beastiary strategy guide didn't spell it out clearly enough) The Poe should still be hittable whilst invisible, though. (I don't hate the thing nearly as much as the Tornado Demon, but it's a close second)

Personally, I think the Heretic/Hexen-style monsters would definitely fit well with Heretic, but the lich enemies should be among the iron lich bosses seeing how powerful they are, same deal with the maulotaurs having boss replacements. (The dark avatar's a tad easy compared to the rest of the cyberdemon-class bosses)

What about the strife-style enemies, though?

Old Post 06-03-11 05:27 #
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BilboHicks
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gun_psycho said:
If that means the tornado demon's going away, then I won't be missing it all that much, seeing that I hated the damn thing with a passion. (As if my beastiary strategy guide didn't spell it out clearly enough) The Poe should still be hittable whilst invisible, though. (I don't hate the thing nearly as much as the Tornado Demon, but it's a close second)

Personally, I think the Heretic/Hexen-style monsters would definitely fit well with Heretic, but the lich enemies should be among the iron lich bosses seeing how powerful they are, same deal with the maulotaurs having boss replacements. (The dark avatar's a tad easy compared to the rest of the cyberdemon-class bosses)

What about the strife-style enemies, though?



Thanks for the ideas, both of you.

Tornado demon has always been a point of contention with us, I know, since I have a soft spot for it. I will remove the invuln from it, and make it's tornado effect less prolonged.

So you think the floating robed monsters should go too? Other, swordy medieval looking monsters like the Deathknight may go too. As far as the robots/strife enemies, I do like the dark inquisitor on the bestiary, and the floating patrol bot, and since doom has demons, and demon-cyborgs, why not a few hell-tech/hacked-robots as well?
From a game play standpoint, the maulator powerup and sentry droid powerup do leave more up to chance with the scoring, as opposed to skill. But then again there is randomness inherent with how damage is dealt out in the engine (which balances out over time). The maulator powerup monster does fit the bill as too un-doomy as well, since it is straight from heretic/hexen. These powerups would be left in the pack for custom use.

Mind you, Eriance's re-skin of the maulator into that bad-ass boss will stay.
Any thoughts/feedback? Sometimes more is not better.I want the add-on pack to spruce up the enemies in a true-to-doom fashion, and not to be an AEOD (with all due respect to what it tries to do) carnival.

Last edited by BilboHicks on 06-03-11 at 17:22

Old Post 06-03-11 15:36 #
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gun_psycho
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The floating robed monsters would definitely fit well in the world of Heretic anyway (as in spawning amongst the disciple enemies, though many of the enemies in Heretic should have replacements as well), along with many of the more pain-in-the-ass medieval monsters such as the chaos wyvern and the devastator enemy. Oh, and should Heretic have boss rushes like UDoom has for end of episodes?

Also, the robot enemies I'm fine with, despite two of them being very dangerous in their own right. Two last things: Does the icon of sin monster spawners still summon enemies that spawn with powerups? It was only because of that that I was able to beat map30 of Kama Sutra. (which would've been literally impossible otherwise) Also, any new doom-style enemies I should look forward to?

Old Post 06-03-11 18:20 #
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BilboHicks
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gun_psycho said:
The floating robed monsters would definitely fit well in the world of Heretic anyway (as in spawning amongst the disciple enemies, though many of the enemies in Heretic should have replacements as well), along with many of the more pain-in-the-ass medieval monsters such as the chaos wyvern and the devastator enemy. Oh, and should Heretic have boss rushes like UDoom has for end of episodes?

Also, the robot enemies I'm fine with, despite two of them being very dangerous in their own right. Two last things: Does the icon of sin monster spawners still summon enemies that spawn with powerups? It was only because of that that I was able to beat map30 of Kama Sutra. (which would've been literally impossible otherwise) Also, any new doom-style enemies I should look forward to?



Hmmn, I'm not a big Heretic player, so I'm not inclined to go the extra mile to add replacements specifically for it, though I agree that would be a good use for some of the more heretic-like monsters.
The straight robot rips from Strife will go. The dark inquisitor though will be added as well as some other new bestiary critters.
I think the map30 spawns should have powerup drops, will keep that in mind.
As far as powerups, for intsance, DV2 map 23 did seem to be a lot easy with the pack due to the amount of drops. When monster density is so high, there is a like a tipping point whereby the powerups all close together make you insanely tough.
Another thing I'm going to add, among others is that Revenant replacements will all have proper seeking missiles. I will try and do this for other replacements, within reason, since having monsters with wildly different behaviors from what the mapper originally intended can actually make things a lot easier and hurt gameplay.

Old Post 06-03-11 19:20 #
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gun_psycho
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Well, in Map28 of Speed of Doom I was going to go all-out with the powerups but the lag problem stopped me from finishing it properly. Same deal with Map30, as there were 2010 monsters and waking them all at once really dipped my framerate into the single digits.

Old Post 06-03-11 20:58 #
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BilboHicks
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gun_psycho said:
Well, in Map28 of Speed of Doom I was going to go all-out with the powerups but the lag problem stopped me from finishing it properly. Same deal with Map30, as there were 2010 monsters and waking them all at once really dipped my framerate into the single digits.


The stripping down of the 'crud' in the add-on pack for the hi score server will definitely help performance simply due to cutting down the amount of different things to render at once, as well as less entity types to handle in DECORATE, along with fixes for the Devastator's plasma balls hanging around etc. But running maps like map30 for SOD and wads like Sunder snappily will have to wait for better hardware.

Old Post 06-03-11 21:12 #
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gun_psycho
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Oh, and monsters spawned as a result of the Icon of Sin should disappear after death so maps don't get too bogged down with dead bodies.

I have a feeling that the boss rush chains are being reworked, so that the doom-style enemies remain.

Edit: Are the parts where the Hell's Battery enemy becomes invulnerable going to be stripped too? (That's assuming that he stays)

Old Post 06-03-11 21:48 #
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BilboHicks
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gun_psycho said:
Oh, and monsters spawned as a result of the Icon of Sin should disappear after death so maps don't get too bogged down with dead bodies.

I have a feeling that the boss rush chains are being reworked, so that the doom-style enemies remain.

Edit: Are the parts where the Hell's Battery enemy becomes invulnerable going to be stripped too? (That's assuming that he stays)



Yep & Yep. :-)

There will be 2 more bosses added to compensate. I will keep the old chains in the pack to be used for custom games, as well as a custom sdcustom.ini configured with all the monsters/chains in 2.9g including the new ones added as a reference.

Old Post 06-04-11 03:00 #
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gun_psycho
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Ok, I'll get my Plutonia 2 run done sometime tonight, then I'll start on Herian 2.

Edit: Mind sending me the version of DV 2 with the fixed graphics and everything via PM?

Last edited by gun_psycho on 06-04-11 at 09:50

Old Post 06-04-11 04:44 #
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BilboHicks
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gun_psycho said:
Ok, I'll get my Plutonia 2 run done sometime tonight, then I'll start on Herian 2.

Edit: Mind sending me the version of DV 2 with the fixed graphics and everything via PM?



I had to fix the scoredoom exe, not the wad.

Old Post 06-04-11 15:06 #
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gun_psycho
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Ok... how do I fix the scoredoom exe so DVII can run properly?

Old Post 06-04-11 17:47 #
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BilboHicks
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gun_psycho said:
Ok... how do I fix the scoredoom exe so DVII can run properly?


uummn, I would say the easiest way would be to wait for the update ;-)

Old Post 06-04-11 18:25 #
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gun_psycho
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I'll wait then. By the way, which of the boss chains will have the new bosses in it? (I also found that in Ultimate Doom, the super baron revenant rockets are invisible, making them much more difficult to avoid)

Old Post 06-04-11 21:26 #
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BilboHicks
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gun_psycho said:
I'll wait then. By the way, which of the boss chains will have the new bosses in it? (I also found that in Ultimate Doom, the super baron revenant rockets are invisible, making them much more difficult to avoid)

The cyber chain most likely, or both cyber & mastermind, not sure yet.
Just spent most of the day slogging through the add-on pack removing nonshootable/invuln flags and adding tweaks here and there. Have do the same for SDST pack as well. Its super tedious.
examples:All revenant replacements have proper tracers. Tornado demon is always hittable, but will do more damage now, since it is a vile-clase enemy. Thamuz emits a damaging radius quake, instead of goin invuln,etc...
I tested a stripped down version of sdcustom.ini with SOD map30. It ran for about 10 seconds longer before becoming completely unplayable :P


EDIT: Thinking about SODFinal map30 & other wads like Sunder that have crazy maps & enemies, I added a cool feature where you can play with the add-on pack with these wads, even on the hi-score server, but for certain maps you can choose to only have default monsters. This is set in the sdcustom.ini like so:

[DefaultMonsterMaps]
|DOOM2.WAD|SD-ADDONPACK.WAD|SODFINAL.WAD|MAP30=1

(for example this is set for map30 in sodfinal.wad).

After some playing about with that map as a rough test case, when this is set with the add-on pack loaded, scoredoom will only load default doom enemies for every enemy type, except for Spidermasterminds, Cyberdemons and Archviles, which will have replacements. This got MAP30 running fine for me. I wanted to allow baron replacements, but that killed performance still. Will do some more testing with Sunder now.
I think this is a good compromise.

Last edited by BilboHicks on 06-05-11 at 03:23

Old Post 06-04-11 23:53 #
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