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Megamur
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Considering the alterations/additions made to the code, I doubt you can really hope to make old savegames compatible with new versions.

Old Post 05-16-11 04:15 #
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gun_psycho
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Unfortunately, no. If you happen to play UDoom with the add-on pack, you'll be in for a nasty surprise in the form of boss rushes at the end of each episode. (Wonderful Doom's E1M8 is insanely difficult because of the tight space and having to fight eight boss barons at once)

Old Post 05-16-11 04:30 #
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evouga
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Megamur said:
Now I'm interested. It'd be nice to play E1 & E2 with some sort of challenge again.


Yes, I recommend playing without the add-on pack (makes the game too much of a luckfest IMO), but keep in mind gameplay will differ somewhat from classic DooM:

1. Like most modern source ports, you can look up and down (an ability I shamelessly abuse to snipe hitscanners in towers and alcoves).

2. Monster infighting is severely penalized score-wise (you'll get about 9% of the points you would have received if you'd killed the enemy yourself) so try to do as much damage on enemies yourself.

3. I always play in UV MAX style out of principle, even though that's not the best strategy for maximizing score -- the bonuses for 100% kills, etc are quite negligible on larger levels.

Old Post 05-16-11 06:59 #
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gun_psycho
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@evouga - Personally, I play the add-on pack as well as the no infighting mode because, well, I'm nuts like that.

I was crazy enough to beat Whispers of Satan with the add-on pack, no infighting, AND hardcore mode (no saving in the middle of levels) and I did beat it eventually... but the last few levels were just... horrible.

Old Post 05-16-11 07:49 #
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evouga
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gun_psycho said:
@evouga - Personally, I play the add-on pack as well as the no infighting mode because, well, I'm nuts like that.

I was crazy enough to beat Whispers of Satan with the add-on pack, no infighting, AND hardcore mode (no saving in the middle of levels) and I did beat it eventually... but the last few levels were just... horrible.



Any plans to try some of the classic PWADs like HR or AV?

I'd be very impressed with a no-infighting HR run... some of the maps like Last Look at Eden and Afterlife at first glance seem to me like they'd be completely impossible... but maybe if you bring in enough ammo from previous levels?

Old Post 05-16-11 16:54 #
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gun_psycho
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@evouga - You should check my high-scores on the scoredoom site. (I go by the name Deathhand there)

I HAVE beaten AV and HR with the no-infighting mode and the add-on pack, and those two megawads were NOT easy to say the least. Speed of Doom's Maps 28 and 30 are pretty much impossible due to the lag thing. (both of those maps have 2000+ monsters)

Edit: Here's my scoredoom profile in case any of you want to know which megawads I completed with the add-on pack and no-infighting mode. http://www.scoredoom.com/profile.ph...rname=Deathhand

Last edited by gun_psycho on 05-16-11 at 19:52

Old Post 05-16-11 19:25 #
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evouga
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Ah, cool! I was looking at the hardcore boards.

Old Post 05-16-11 22:19 #
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gun_psycho
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The current megawad I'm running through is NDCP 1, and it's on hold for the time being.

Anyways, I'll likely try to beat Fragport again after Plutonia 2.

Old Post 05-17-11 00:08 #
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BilboHicks
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Save games are usually invalidated for previous versions if there is potentially a way to gain an advantage from a previous version save game. Admittedly I'm anal on this cheating thing.

Its true that in most modes, monsters damaging each other can take away your potential points, and this can affect your score compared to someone else's run through the same level, and really depends on luck. But no-infighting mode in SD means that monsters do no damage to each other either, so this mode is by far the most fair in terms of the total points available on the level per play-through. No-infighting mode was specifically made for fairness in mind. weapon randomness etc., balances out I think over sizable levels and over wads/episodes. I think the same can probably be said for infighting too, but that depends on your play style. The upshot with no-infighting is that it is much more challenging at times.

The new patch is pretty much in place, but still have some beta testing to do, as well as updating the hi score server, so it will be sometime this month/next. I will not be updating save game versions for this ;-). There will be a few new add-on pack creatures, mostly for regular SD. Regular SD's multiplayer has been enhanced as well to be more like SDST in terms of the announcer activating when the lead is lost/won. SD's multiplayer should be perfectly fine on a LAN, fast internet, even with the add-on pack, within reason.

This will be the last SD/SDST update, including add-on pack updates. I'm going to start promoting SDST multiplayer games, like on altdeath.org. So feel free to join in on some internet multiplayer competitive co-op when that gets going! I think there is a lot of fun to be had in that, for players not looking for uber-serious deathmatch.

Last edited by BilboHicks on 05-17-11 at 20:18

Old Post 05-17-11 19:48 #
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gun_psycho
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@Bilbohicks Will that new update be labeled version 3? I would definitely look forward to seeing the new monsters... along with the fixed Chesire Caco.

Old Post 05-17-11 22:32 #
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BilboHicks
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gun_psycho said:
@Bilbohicks Will that new update be labeled version 3? I would definitely look forward to seeing the new monsters... along with the fixed Chesire Caco.


Hey, how did the beta testing with Deus Vult II go? Did you manage to try those levels with the add-on pack added after the dvII wad? You shouldn't see any crashes now.

I'm currently playing through DVII myself, beta testing with the add-on pack loaded this way. Currently finished stargate, and no crashes. I also played map21 and map23 a bit, they seemed stable too. The only problems I noticed that there were some floor textures in stargate missing, very oddly. Could be an add-on pack clash, but not sure how.
Have to say that DVII is genius, at times.

I'm not sure this patch warrants a 3, but I'm running out of letters to attach to 2.9. :-)

Last edited by BilboHicks on 05-18-11 at 16:57

Old Post 05-18-11 16:00 #
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gun_psycho
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Oh, I'm too busy to be testing out DV-II at this time, but I'll get back to my run on the NDCP megawad. So far, I'm right at map11 or so.

Old Post 05-18-11 18:44 #
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Megamur
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evouga said:


Yes, I recommend playing without the add-on pack (makes the game too much of a luckfest IMO), but keep in mind gameplay will differ somewhat from classic DooM:

1. Like most modern source ports, you can look up and down (an ability I shamelessly abuse to snipe hitscanners in towers and alcoves).

2. Monster infighting is severely penalized score-wise (you'll get about 9% of the points you would have received if you'd killed the enemy yourself) so try to do as much damage on enemies yourself.

3. I always play in UV MAX style out of principle, even though that's not the best strategy for maximizing score -- the bonuses for 100% kills, etc are quite negligible on larger levels.



You can just go to Gameplay Options and disable jumping, crouching and freelook, which is what I always do.

And I always use the add-on pack since the randomized monsters are basically the whole reason I wanted to try the mod. Strangely enough, it's...not that much harder than playing vanilla DOOM. The boss fights at the end of episodes are crazy, for sure, and occasionally you'll have a Baron being swapped out for something terrible that makes mincemeat out of you. Overall, though, I rarely died, which surprised me. I think the health/ammo pickups being buffed, being able to get 200% health with just stimpacks and medikits, and the randomly dropped items go a long way to balancing the gameplay.

By the way, playing an old George Fiffy level with the add-on pack and the announcer on is absolutely hilarious. :)

Old Post 05-19-11 03:12 #
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gun_psycho
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@Megamur - The add-on pack certainly makes those slaughter maps much harder, but the powerups balance that out if you use them at the correct times. I died quite a bit in those maps, but I'll still play through them to the bitter end.

Edit: I forgot to mention that with the add-on pack, it's possible to get all of the weapons far earlier in megawads if enemies that drop those weapons are spawned in any given level... though the evil doomguy clones are absolute nightmares in the early levels without sufficient weaponry. I also forgot to mention that I hardly seem to run out of shotgun ammo

Last edited by gun_psycho on 05-19-11 at 07:05

Old Post 05-19-11 06:37 #
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Megamur
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gun_psycho said:
I forgot to mention that with the add-on pack, it's possible to get all of the weapons far earlier in megawads if enemies that drop those weapons are spawned in any given level.


Not just that, you can also get super shotgun drops in DOOM 1 WADs, which is kind of weird, but interesting. :)

Wow, how many forms does the Spider Mastermind have, exactly? Like, 80?

Old Post 05-20-11 00:09 #
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evouga
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Wow, how many forms does the Spider Mastermind have, exactly? Like, 80?

Yeah, about. Some of them fly, too, which can make Doom II Map06 very... interesting ;)

Old Post 05-20-11 00:16 #
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Megamur
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Well, I meant the E3M8 Spider Mastermind, specifically. I usually just play up to the ends of the DOOM 1 episodes in ScoreDoom and just quit, since fighting through all those boss forms is extremely tedious.

Old Post 05-20-11 00:39 #
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gun_psycho
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@Megamur Personally, I find the boss rush segments to be climactic compared to the icon of sin levels where I just one-shot the final boss with the BFG's nuke alt-fire and I'm done with the megawad. (Scythe and Scythe 2's Map30 are two major exceptions for being practically the hardest map30s by far) As for the spider mastermind forms, the boss rush ends after the Insanity Arachnophyte (the last form) finally goes down.

The E1M8 baron battle in 2002ADO with this mod, as well as the dual boss rush cyberdemon Map19 in Consoledoom, were crazy difficult, though.

Old Post 05-20-11 03:26 #
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Megamur
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Indeed, they're definitely better than the Icon of Sin maps. They're just so long that I tend to not feel compelled to try again if I die, since I know I've got probably a good `nother 8 minutes of constant circle-strafing and holding down the fire button every time I fail.

Old Post 05-20-11 03:43 #
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gun_psycho
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Though there is the nuke in case you got enough cell ammo. (even better if you have at least one ammo regen sphere nearby)

Old Post 05-20-11 03:54 #
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Megamur
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On the miracle chance you have a Spread, Ammo Regen, Invulnerability, a BFG and at least 400 cells, you're unleashing devastation God would envy.

Hey, is there any way to bind the sentry gun and Maulotaur to different keys? N and M are rather awkward to hit in the middle of a firefight.

Old Post 05-20-11 04:26 #
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gun_psycho
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You should check the controls menu, maybe you can bind those two to whatever two buttons you would use most. (The minotaurs, I think they're pretty useless, though the turrets would be more useful if they didn't die so easily.)

Old Post 05-20-11 04:37 #
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BilboHicks
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Megamur said:
On the miracle chance you have a Spread, Ammo Regen, Invulnerability, a BFG and at least 400 cells, you're unleashing devastation God would envy.

Hey, is there any way to bind the sentry gun and Maulotaur to different keys? N and M are rather awkward to hit in the middle of a firefight.



I have a save game file from a later scythe 2 map with pretty much this configuration, and a massive open area to unleash it on. I kept is specifically so I could do a video of the carnage :D

As far as bindings, you should be able to re-bind them. I will double check this.
----

For the add-on pack in the next patch, I will be removing some of the more irritating and less-doomish monsters. The bats for instance. Any other suggestions? The creatures will be left in the pack, for optional use with the sdcustom.ini. The thing is some monsters like the flying patrol bots I like, but they are arguably un-doomish, so this will always be subjective, but those bats irritate me!

Old Post 05-20-11 19:01 #
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Megamur
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BilboHicks said:
As far as bindings, you should be able to re-bind them. I will double check this.


I'm sure you can manually bind them using the console. I just didn't know what I was supposed to type: "bind [key] [?]"

I don't see the sentries or Maulotaurs listed on the in-game button configuration screen, though.



For the add-on pack in the next patch, I will be removing some of the more irritating and less-doomish monsters. The bats for instance. Any other suggestions? The creatures will be left in the pack, for optional use with the sdcustom.ini. The thing is some monsters like the flying patrol bots I like, but they are arguably un-doomish, so this will always be subjective, but those bats irritate me!


I don't like the Auger Rifle Zombies very much, just because it's annoying how they can shoot you from other rooms when they technically shouldn't even be able to see you yet, but that's a minor complaint. A lot of the Hexen-like enemies don't seem very appropriate either, like the Death Knights and Disciples (and all the other "guys in robes" variants) and such, but they're not too detached from DOOM's satanic themes. I think Aldhivas is just a ridiculous design, though. It looks like a walking palette error that inexplicably makes Arch-Vile noises. I hate it, and the Evil DoomGuy is a much better take on the same idea anyway.

Also, if you're getting rid of the bats, does that mean the bees are going, too?

Old Post 05-20-11 23:40 #
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Mithran Denizen
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Megamur said:
I'm sure you can manually bind them using the console. I just didn't know what I was supposed to type: "bind [key] [?]"

It sounds like you might have already figured it out, but if not, it should be bind [key] "use artisentryservant2" for the sentry, and bind [key] "use artidarkservant2" for the maulotaur, including the quotes.

Old Post 05-20-11 23:51 #
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BilboHicks
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Megamur said:


I'm sure you can manually bind them using the console. I just didn't know what I was supposed to type: "bind [key] [?]"

I don't see the sentries or Maulotaurs listed on the in-game button configuration screen, though.




I don't like the Auger Rifle Zombies very much, just because it's annoying how they can shoot you from other rooms when they technically shouldn't even be able to see you yet, but that's a minor complaint. A lot of the Hexen-like enemies don't seem very appropriate either, like the Death Knights and Disciples (and all the other "guys in robes" variants) and such, but they're not too detached from DOOM's satanic themes. I think Aldhivas is just a ridiculous design, though. It looks like a walking palette error that inexplicably makes Arch-Vile noises. I hate it, and the Evil DoomGuy is a much better take on the same idea anyway.

Also, if you're getting rid of the bats, does that mean the bees are going, too?



Thanks for the feeback, I generally concur. Hmmn, the hornets annoy me as well. Really any edits would be for the 'official' online hi score server addon-pack config. For your own games add/subtract/edit whatever you want.

Old Post 05-20-11 23:58 #
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gun_psycho
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@Megamur - Yeah, the hornets are major pains in the ass to hit, even with the chaingun sometimes. The demon bats (the ones that can clip through you) aren't so bad. The drone bots never hover down to my level for some reason either. While I personally could care less if I run into those heretic/hexen-ish enemies in inappropriately-themed levels, some of those tend to be really good at killing you quickly. (Yeah, the hexen-ish enemies would fit very well in Heretic if I say so myself, as the enemies in that game are pretty tame compared to the Doom enemies... though D'Sparil is really annoying when he starts teleporting)

@BilboHicks - So what's the list of new enemies that'll be on the add-on pack patch? Also, when's the new patch going to be up? I'll be sure to beat NDCP before then.

Old Post 05-21-11 02:08 #
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Megamur
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Mithran Denizen said:
It sounds like you might have already figured it out, but if not, it should be bind [key] "use artisentryservant2" for the sentry, and bind [key] "use artidarkservant2" for the maulotaur, including the quotes.


Thank you, that did the trick. Now I don't have to stand around like a fool, fumbling for the N and M keys. :)

Old Post 05-21-11 02:23 #
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Brewtal_Legend
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I don't mind the hexen/heretic enemies too much. They may not it quite as well thematically, but they do fit stylistically I think. I actually think the robed enemies from heretic/hexen fit fairly nicely with the demonic/occult theme.

The ones I don't like are some of the more alien type monsters that look like they came from the build engine games. I don't know their exact names though. Even ones from Blood, although fit thematically, don't quite fit in smoothly art style wise. In my opinion at least.

Old Post 05-21-11 07:01 #
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gun_psycho
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@Brewtal_Legend - I particularly don't even mind those build game-based enemies... but that doesn't mean that there are no enemies that I loathe with a passion like the Tornado Demon.

Old Post 05-21-11 18:44 #
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