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Quasar
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Gez said:

Eternity is getting support for recording vanilla-compatible demos.


Yep, it can be tried out already.
code:
eternity -vanilla [-longtics] -record <filename>

This isn't very fine tunable, as there's no analog of "complevel" from PrBoom, and it is lacking a couple of compatibility tweaks that I still intend to add to it, but 99% of the demos this outputs should already play back in Choco, given that 99% of 1.9 demos sync in Eternity using the same game logic :)

Old Post 03-03-10 18:26 #
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Xtroose
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I use the Eternity Engine for anything that runs under it, GZDoom for ZDoom compatible mods and PrBoom+ for watching demos. I sometimes use Chocolate Doom, especially for older wads and TCs. I also use Boom, MBF and SMMU for testing.

I mostly map for Boom, EE and ZDoom, but I usually don't finish anything I start. :(

Old Post 03-03-10 19:39 #
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Philnemba
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Zdoom for single player
Skulltag/Odamex for multiplayer
Prboom+/Eternity for map testing

Old Post 03-03-10 22:52 #
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Kagemaru_H
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Jodwin said:

Dis.


http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/doom/images/8/84/Spider.png

Old Post 03-04-10 00:06 #
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Super Jamie
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Quasar said:
This isn't very fine tunable, as there's no analog of "complevel" from PrBoom, and it is lacking a couple of compatibility tweaks that I still intend to add to it, but 99% of the demos this outputs should already play back in Choco, given that 99% of 1.9 demos sync in Eternity using the same game logic :)

Will you be implementing PrBoom-style complevels? If so, just for Vanilla engines or complevel 9 as well?

Also never remove r_swirl <3

Old Post 03-04-10 00:17 #
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GreyGhost
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I use most of them - with GZDoom, PrBoom+ and Chocolate getting the most use.

Old Post 03-04-10 11:53 #
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Never_Again
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Last edited by Never_Again on 06-13-10 at 17:19

Old Post 03-05-10 13:01 #
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Gez
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Never_Again said:
What a subtle difference. No doubt, it's the abundance of posts like "PortX is the best port but I don't use it" in that other thread that made you start this one.

Actually, this could make sense for multiplayer.

Old Post 03-05-10 13:05 #
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printz
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Super Jamie said:

Will you be implementing PrBoom-style complevels? If so, just for Vanilla engines or complevel 9 as well?

In fact, it would be cool to be able to record standard Boom demos with Eternity, so I can just use Eternity to make recordings for any wad like Whispers of Satan and whatnot.


Gez said:

Try playing Doomsday of UAC in Eternity. Then try playing it in ZDoom. :)

I prefer -complevel style switches (which would be very very very welcome in Eternity if possible), not wadname checks as in ZDoom. It sounds kinda hacky to me.

I pretty much use Eternity unless the wad/pk3 requires something else, or I become nostalgic and only want vanilla Doom. Or if I can't trust any port's ability to be backwards compatible.

For Heretic limit-removing-requiring levels, I use GZDoom. I only ever use ZDoom when GZDoom makes the night sky look cylindrical and fugly at the zenith. I can't stand software rendering's distorted and limited freelook otherwise.

Old Post 03-05-10 13:09 #
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Gez
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printz said:
not wadname checks as in ZDoom

ZDoom uses MD5 checks, not wadname checks. There is absolutely no risk of applying the compatibility settings to a level which isn't the intended level.

The point, however, was that here we have an "early wad" that uses an effect that "was never meant to be changed" but which has been "intentionally "corrected"" in most source ports, though it still works perfectly fine in ZDoom, for some reason.

Old Post 03-05-10 13:15 #
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printz
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Gez said:
but which has been "intentionally "corrected"" in most source ports,
And in vanilla Doom as well, if what you mean is the boss death activation.

Old Post 03-05-10 15:27 #
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Gez
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Irrelevant.

Old Post 03-05-10 15:44 #
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esselfortium
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Using an MD5 check to detect a specific wad and apply different behavior to that wad specifically for the sake of supporting its non-1.9-compatible behavior is not "for some reason", it's "because we fix it". :P

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Old Post 03-05-10 18:37 #
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Quasar
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esselfortium said:
Using an MD5 check to detect a specific wad and apply different behavior to that wad specifically for the sake of supporting its non-1.9-compatible behavior is not "for some reason", it's "because we fix it". :P

I would very much like to have Eternity auto-apply the appropriate compatibility settings rather than expecting users to understand and anticipate which are needed for various levels; however, there is no MD5 or SHA-1 database that corresponds to the settings which EE supports, so it would be a nearly impossible undertaking that would never be finished.

BTW you shouldn't say "never" when it comes to MD5, as that hash was verified to have collisions a long time ago. Of course, the odds of two different WAD files having the same MD5 hash are astronomically poor ;)

SHA-1 is a bit better. It too has known collisions, but the amount of bit shuffling it does in the calculation and its larger key length makes them even less likely.

Old Post 03-05-10 20:00 #
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kristus
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I use EE as much as I can.
I got most other ports installed.
Hate using Doomsday though because of it's launcher. I would probably say the same for Risen3d if I had it installed. But I've yet to run it properly and I never had a reason to push it so I don't care.

Old Post 03-05-10 21:36 #
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Gez
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esselfortium said:
Using an MD5 check to detect a specific wad and apply different behavior to that wad specifically for the sake of supporting its non-1.9-compatible behavior is not "for some reason", it's "because we fix it". :P

Again, irrelevant. What matters is that mods can be played without the user having to be forewarned about subtleties and intricacies. That the engine applies special compatibility settings or not doesn't change anything, what matters it that it works "right out of the box" or not.


Quasar said:
I would very much like to have Eternity auto-apply the appropriate compatibility settings rather than expecting users to understand and anticipate which are needed for various levels; however, there is no MD5 or SHA-1 database that corresponds to the settings which EE supports, so it would be a nearly impossible undertaking that would never be finished.

There are many other places where you can put checks to determine the nature of a mod and which compatibility settings should apply to it. For example, the presence or absence of a mapinfo lump, and the format of said lump. The format of a map, as well. For instance, you could have it so that any Doom-format map uses the old clipping code by default (unless compat-optioned in MAPINFO), while any UDMF map uses the new portal-friendly clipping code (again, unless compat-optioned in MAPINFO). If a map makes use of MBF features, then certain MBF features such as torque, friction and wind effects affecting monster movements are on by default; otherwise they're off. Etc. With such rough checks, you greatly reduce the number of potentially troublesome maps; which can then simply be added to the database as they are reported. Certainly Eternity wouldn't need to maintain a larger database than ZDoom, since the code has remained closer on most respects.


Quasar said:
BTW you shouldn't say "never" when it comes to MD5, as that hash was verified to have collisions a long time ago. Of course, the odds of two different WAD files having the same MD5 hash are astronomically poor ;)

The calculation isn't made for the file; it's made for the level itself -- just the part of the file that corresponds to the map's lumps. I don't know if this affects probability in any way; but in either case I think MD5 are reliable enough. Worst case, some compat settings are applied to a map that doesn't need them.

Old Post 03-05-10 21:36 #
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DaniJ
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kristus said:
Hate using Doomsday though because of it's launcher.

Any particular reason?

Our current plan is to drop the use of a launcher entirely for 2.0 in favour of in-game addon management.

Old Post 03-05-10 21:45 #
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Subatomic
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When I was just playing DOOM, I only used the Doomsday engine--mostly for the fancy hi-res textures and models. Once I started mapping again, I moved over to GZDoom and that's all I use now. There's just something about those lo-fi, ancient graphics that make this game special. I don't see myself moving back to Doomsday (or using any other port) anytime soon.

[Edit: I just read the post above me...]

I never had any problems with Doomsday's launcher--at least, not Snowberry. There's an older launcher it used to come with that just plain sucked, but I really liked Snowberry. It was a breeze to use. Never really understood why so many people hate it or think it's overly-complicated. Just run the setup wizard and you're good to go.

Old Post 03-05-10 22:12 #
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[WH]-Wilou84
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I liked KickStart, the old Doomsday launcher. At that time, I was only using Doom95, so Doomsday was like a revolution for me. Wasn't attracted by the hi-res stuff and models though, just some fancy color and lighting effects. It's weird, cause now GZDoom's and Skulltag's colored lighting repels me.

Today, I use mostly ZDoom, for playing new wads as well as testing the maps I'm working on. GZDoom is used if the wad needs it.
I use PrBoom for demo recording as well as for testing my own maps, ( along with ZDoom then ), and ZDaemon for my multiplayer needs ( mostly CTF and duels ).

I'll make sure to give Eternity a try once Vaporware is out :p
Same for Chocolate Doom and KDiKDiZD.

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Old Post 03-06-10 00:23 #
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GhostlyDeath
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[WH]-Wilou84 said:
I'll make sure to give Eternity a try once Vaporware is out :p
Same for Chocolate Doom and KDiKDiZD.



Was KDiKDiZD ever released? I havn't played it in around a year or so.

Old Post 03-06-10 08:04 #
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Nuxius
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Nuxius said previously:
GZDoom - totally new school, tons of great features, can play just about anything
PRBoom-Plus - perfect mixture of old school and new school
Chocolate Doom - totally old school; great for that warm, fuzzy, nostalgic feeling.




GhostlyDeath said:
Was KDiKDiZD ever released?

Heh.

Old Post 03-07-10 08:31 #
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pinata666
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DOSBox for old saved games from before I discovered ports (I want to finish those saved games, dammit!).

ZDoom for most of my current games.

Skulltag for wads that require it specifically even in single player. I have dial-up, so I'm not even remotely interested in multiplayer.

I don't have any other ports yet, but I plan to get into editing and might need some other ones for that.

Old Post 03-19-10 07:53 #
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Super Flip
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I usually play on Skulltag, both single player and multiplayer.
But every once and a while I'll turn to Risen 3D just for kicks.

Old Post 03-23-10 20:32 #
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AzaryDoom2020
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First time, I used PrBoom for very fun including:-

Ghost Monsters!

Finally, I used Zdoom for more fun including:-

Friendly Monsters!

Too bad, ZDoom doesn't support ghost monsters anymore...

Old Post 03-25-10 08:22 #
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Gez
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Not actually true. But I wouldn't say "support" for a serious bug is important anyway.

Old Post 03-25-10 08:43 #
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myk
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AzaryDoom2020 said:
Too bad, ZDoom doesn't support ghost monsters anymore...
There's a compatibility option for that in ZDoom. Technically, PrBoom+ does the same, as in its standard behavior it does not support them and they are enabled with the vanilla compatibility levels or with a specific compatibility setting.

Old Post 03-25-10 09:41 #
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Gez
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In ZDoom it's not a compatibility option either; it's just set in for the handful of levels that specifically and deliberately exploit this effect. It cannot be obtained in other levels.

The compatibility option only allows arch-vile to raise crushed monsters at all, but they'll be normal monsters, not bugged ones; except on said handful of levels.

Old Post 03-25-10 11:18 #
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EvilNed
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I still use Doom Legacy. I never saw any real reason to change. Sometimes I'll through one of the games in jDoom/jHeretic or something like that, just to play with 3D models. But apart from that, I like the retro feel of Legacy.

Old Post 03-25-10 14:06 #
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Clonehunter
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Also use Legacy. I enjoy the launcher on it, and the OpenGl and Glide modes are exceptionally nice.

Old Post 03-25-10 22:21 #
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myk
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Gez said:
In ZDoom it's not a compatibility option either; it's just set in for the handful of levels that specifically and deliberately exploit this effect. It cannot be obtained in other levels.

The compatibility option only allows arch-vile to raise crushed monsters at all, but they'll be normal monsters, not bugged ones; except on said handful of levels.
Ah, I see, you need to edit compatibility.txt in zdoom.pk3 and add the corresponding hash values and levels to the section on ghost monsters. Rather awkward, but the option is there.

You called it a "serious bug", but that's really up to the user to decide in this case. It's arguably a normative matter. While the intermediate option of allowing arch-viles to resurrect gibs normally is a good idea for general purposes, and the ghost bug is certainly a "use at your own risk" kind of bug because it could happen in a place without a rocket launcher, it's not like bugs that harm performance or visuals and some might like to use it regardless of what others think, even if they are a minority. Jumping is also a "serious bug" in levels that weren't made for it, yet it's not "hard-coded" in the PK3 only for levels made for it. ZDoom even allows the blanket or MAPINFO application of other bugs that really do cripple game progress in a terminal way, such as use buggier stair building. Many other settings and features that can easily be applied through MAPINFO, the console or the command line are likewise capable of causing issues that are more serious than ghost monsters. Even nightmare mode is usually a bigger issue that ghost monsters, making some levels utterly unplayable :p

Old Post 03-25-10 22:50 #
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