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theleo_ua
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Introduction:

Music, that you heard, when you were up to 20 years old, is an unremovable part of you. In the mature age you can listen any count of mega techno\drum n bass\electronic\trance\house masterpiece tracks, and you can like some of them. But music, that you listened in your childhood and youth, will stay inside of you forever, and your head cannot forget or stop liking them. Old songs and compositions can be poor by modern criticism, but you cannot fight with yourself: music, with which you grown up, will be best for you forever.


So what is this topic about?


I played Heretic in 1995-1998 a lot of time. And I remember that best day of my life, when parents bought me a sound blaster as a New Year present. When I start E1M1 with music - I was impressed so much - the music was fucking awesome! And when I entered E3M8 at first time - the music of this level was really making my head fly to heaven.

And what I see today in Doomsday/Windows XP? Windows general midi totally changed music to shitty converted mode (user's manual (tome of power) said, that these are machinations of D'Sparil).

If you run vannila Heretic in XP, you will receive same shit, if set "general midi" as music device. SoundBlaster 220 doesnt work on WinXP (with default midi drivers) as a Heretic music device.

You can compare 2 samples:

Good sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By...dit?usp=sharing

Good sample in youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7N...FA9A564103330CE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTT...FA9A564103330CE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emc...FA9A564103330CE

Bad sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By...dit?usp=sharing

bad_sample.rar is windows general midi version, and good_sample.rar is a dos soundblaster 220 version.

So I used chaos device and teleported to 1995 for record awesome version of original Heretic music. DosBox helped me to do this.

I should say, that Zdoom and GZdoom can emulate this sound by "opl emulation" midi device, but the result in not good imho (you can compare Zdoom music version with my samples).


Imho best emulation = DosBox.


So I created a pack with original dos version (OPL SoundBlaster 220) of Heretic music for Doomsday and GZDoom:

MP3 (20 MB):

Doomsday: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By...dit?usp=sharing

GZDoom: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By...dit?usp=sharing


WAV (230 MB):

Doomsday: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By...dit?usp=sharing

GZDoom: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By...dit?usp=sharing


Here is the sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By...dit?usp=sharing



Same packs for Hexen:


Sample (loading music (orb), map21 and map29):

Sycraft (for comparison): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By...dit?usp=sharing

Dos OPL Soundblaster 220 (from my packs): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By...dit?usp=sharing

Dos OPL Soundblaster 220 samples in youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=224...E8E620BC2E28125

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTD...E8E620BC2E28125

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7L...E8E620BC2E28125

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHA...E8E620BC2E28125

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_i...E8E620BC2E28125


Full pack (MP3, 75 MB):

Doomsday: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By...dit?usp=sharing

GZDoom: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By...dit?usp=sharing


Full pack (WAV, 720 MB):

Doomsday: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By...dit?usp=sharing

GZDoom: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By...dit?usp=sharing


1) Do you need same packs for Doom\Strife?
2) Does anybody have a remastered (remixed) versions of Heretic\Hexen\Strife music, like Doom version by DJ RedLight ?
3) Found any bugs in this packs?

You are free to message me:)

Good Luck to all! Hope you will enjoy this packs.

P.S.

What music version you prefer?

A) Original Dos (OPL sounblaster 220) version
B) Windows (general midi) version
C) Sycraft version
D) Dont see any difference
E) I prefer original dos, but this pack contain bugs
F) Doomsday will have it's own OPL emulation
G) Your own answer

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Last edited by theleo_ua on 10-03-14 at 18:57

Old Post 03-25-10 18:50 #
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magicsofa
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I love the texture of oldschool sounds...

Reminds me of why I liked the music from Descent

Old Post 03-25-10 18:57 #
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theleo_ua
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magicsofa said:
I love the texture of oldschool sounds...


Me too:)


magicsofa said:
Reminds me of why I liked the music from Descent [/B]


Yes - this sounds and music reminds childhood and youth

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Old Post 03-25-10 19:01 #
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Graf Zahl
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Ugh...

It sounds as bad as ZDoom's OPL emulator. I'll probably never understand why people think that this is how 'it's supposed to sound'. It's certainly not the 'original'.

Heretic's music even more than Doom's was written for much better equipment and if you really want to get the whole 'texture' of it you'll have to use either a Roland sound card or a software synth with a really good soundfont.

Timidity with EAWPats will do. ;)

Old Post 03-25-10 20:01 #
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theleo_ua
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Graf Zahl said:

Ugh...

It sounds as bad as ZDoom's OPL emulator. I'll probably never understand why people think that this is how 'it's supposed to sound'.



Read "introduction" plz

So many people - so many opinions


Graf Zahl said:

It's certainly not the 'original'.



I listened this music in 1995, and for me it is the original.



Graf Zahl said:

Heretic's music even more than Doom's was written for much better equipment and if you really want to get the whole 'texture' of it you'll have to use either a Roland sound card or a software synth with a really good soundfont.

Timidity with EAWPats will do. ;)





Can you upload a sample (for example to rapidshare) in mp3 or wav?

I wanna listen this

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Old Post 03-25-10 20:13 #
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Graf Zahl
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theleo_ua said:

I listened this music in 1995, and for me it is the original.




Depends on the sound card you had. On a real wavetable card like a Gravis Ultrasound you'd have heard something entirely different.


If you want some real high quality recordings of these MIDIs check out this page. It contains versions of all tracks in Doom, Heretic and Hexen. These are what I currently use in the games.

http://sycraft.org/content/audio/index.shtml

Old Post 03-25-10 22:11 #
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WildWeasel
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I agree with the original poster - for me, the OPL MIDI sound is the "original version" and I utterly loathe the wavetable MIDI. I consider it something like a musical equivalent of the Uncanny Valley effect - the more MIDI tries to sound like real instruments, the more I seem to dislike it, as more often than not there are little imperfections (or even that it sounds TOO perfect) that make it sound artificial, and thus, undesirable to me.

I've met people who prefer cover versions of songs over their original artists' versions, simply because the cover version is what they were raised on or what they had heard and become familiar with first. Same thing here.

Old Post 03-25-10 22:18 #
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Csonicgo


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Graf Zahl said:
Ugh...

It sounds as bad as ZDoom's OPL emulator. I'll probably never understand why people think that this is how 'it's supposed to sound'. It's certainly not the 'original'.

Heretic's music even more than Doom's was written for much better equipment and if you really want to get the whole 'texture' of it you'll have to use either a Roland sound card or a software synth with a really good soundfont.

Timidity with EAWPats will do. ;)



yeah man because we all had $900 worth of machinery to hear the "texture" the way it was supposed to be; too bad that doesn't include anything other than Roland sound canvas. MAP31's music in DOOM2 requires the Roland Canvas set to sound remotely tolerable. on any other card it was full of gunshots; hardly anywhere near "soldiers marching".

So if you want the original, go for it by all means.

And just to nitpick, I can name a dozen soundfonts that are better than EAWPats, Chorium to name just one.

Also, lol at "how it's supposed to sound" when we're discussing what is basically a digital piano roll.

EDIT: Yes, I'm mad. I don't think threadshitting like this is helpful. I'm sorry that I, like the OP and many others, wasn't rich enough to get a wavetable card in 1993 so we heard pc speaker beeps or OPL synth. This is waht was nostalgic for us. If you don't like it, Just don't even post. It amazes me why you even posted that crap in the first place.

Last edited by Csonicgo on 03-26-10 at 04:17

Old Post 03-26-10 01:27 #
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Gez
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Might want to try this one as well.

Old Post 03-26-10 01:58 #
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WildWeasel
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The only soundfonts I can bear to use are from here.

Old Post 03-26-10 02:29 #
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The Ultimate DooMer
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adlib = the original :p

Old Post 03-26-10 02:29 #
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kristus
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Csonicgo said:
Also, lol at "how it's supposed to sound" when we're discussing what is basically a digital piano roll.

I can't say what the Raven composer used while making the music. But "how it is supposed to sound" surely would be defined by that person.

Old Post 03-26-10 02:45 #
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Graf Zahl
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He surely didn't want that ugly 'beeping' sound that can be heard throughout all of MUS_E1M1 when played through OPL.

The thing is, Doom's music sounded good when played back with OPL back in 1993. But I always found that Heretic's music was full of holes and was missing some tracks, even back then. E1M2 and E1M3 sound completely different when played with capable hardware or software than with OPL and I can't say I appreciated these tracks until hearing them in their uncrippled version.

As for Hexen, I never listened to its music with OPL thanks to the CD Audio it came with.

Old Post 03-26-10 07:44 #
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theleo_ua
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Csonicgo said:

MAP31's music in DOOM2



BTW - I really hate "windows general midi" version of map31 in doom2, and I just cum when I heard "dos opl soundblaster 220" version of map31 music during monster demonstration in 1996.

I think map31 music is best music of doom2 (original dos opl version of course)

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Old Post 03-26-10 10:23 #
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theleo_ua
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Graf Zahl said:


If you want some real high quality recordings of these MIDIs check out this page. It contains versions of all tracks in Doom, Heretic and Hexen. These are what I currently use in the games.

http://sycraft.org/content/audio/index.shtml



I listened them all 2 weeks ago - imho they sucks, and best heretic music (title, e1m1 and e3m8) is very closely to "windows general midi" version.

So I prefer DosBox version I uploaded in start post

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Old Post 03-26-10 10:26 #
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theleo_ua
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WildWeasel said:
I agree with the original poster - for me, the OPL MIDI sound is the "original version" and I utterly loathe the wavetable MIDI. I consider it something like a musical equivalent of the Uncanny Valley effect - the more MIDI tries to sound like real instruments, the more I seem to dislike it, as more often than not there are little imperfections (or even that it sounds TOO perfect) that make it sound artificial, and thus, undesirable to me.

I've met people who prefer cover versions of songs over their original artists' versions, simply because the cover version is what they were raised on or what they had heard and become familiar with first. Same thing here.



I agree with this



Quote from start post:

In the mature age you can listen any count of mega techno\drum n bass\electronic\trance\house masterpiece tracks, and you can like some of them. But music, that you listened in your childhood and youth, will stay inside of you forever, and your head cannot forget or stop liking them. Old songs and compositions can be poor by modern criticism, but you cannot fight with yourself: music, with which you grown up, will be best for you forever.

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Old Post 03-26-10 10:30 #
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Mike.Reiner
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theleo_ua said:


I listened them all 2 weeks ago - imho they sucks, and best heretic music (title, e1m2 and e3m8) is very closely to "windows general midi" version.

So I prefer DosBox version I uploaded in start post



They 'suck' only because they aren't as you remember them.

DosBox's OPL emulation is pretty similar to how you apparently remember them, but I assure it is still quite inferior to the real deal.

Old Post 03-26-10 10:36 #
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theleo_ua
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Graf Zahl said:
As for Hexen, I never listened to its music with OPL thanks to the CD Audio it came with.


Try map29, map13 and map 12 of Hexen (both with opl and windows midi).
I think - "windows midi" versions of these maps = totally sux.

Also you can try map12 and map9 of Strife and map31 and map 7 of Doom2.

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Old Post 03-26-10 10:45 #
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Mike.Reiner said:


They 'suck' only because they aren't as you remember them.



Of course




Mike.Reiner said:


DosBox's OPL emulation is pretty similar to how you apparently remember them, but I assure it is still quite inferior to the real deal.



Maybe

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Old Post 03-26-10 10:48 #
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Graf Zahl
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theleo_ua said:


Try map29, map13 and map 12 of Hexen (both with opl and windows midi).
I think - "windows midi" versions of these maps = totally sux.

Also you can try map12 and map9 of Strife and map31 and map 7 of Doom2.




Windows MIDI sucks. Period. I don't think that needs to be discussed at all. I don't use it. There's far better alternatives to play MIDI music, especially when using Vista where the volume control is totally broken.

As for Doom2 MAP31, no, I haven't found a single software synth that plays that song correctly. You actually need the Roland card it was composed for to hear the effect as it was intended, or use an MP3 recording of such a card playing back the song. That's what happens if you abuse some hardware dependent features.

Old Post 03-26-10 10:55 #
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theleo_ua
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Graf Zahl said:


As for Doom2 MAP31, no, I haven't found a single software synth that plays that song correctly. You actually need the Roland card it was composed for to hear the effect as it was intended, or use an MP3 recording of such a card playing back the song. That's what happens if you abuse some hardware dependent features.



What can you say about Sycraft's version of doom 2 map31?

I will relisten it today evening.

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Old Post 03-26-10 11:01 #
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Gez
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My first sound card was an Orchid GameWave 32. It was very cheap (essentially a crippled version of the SoundWave 32) and it still had excellent sound for its time thanks to the integrated soundfonts. Also it offered Roland MT-32 emulation.

Just looked at Munt. Seems promising, though apparently the entire CVS directory was nuked from orbit, resulting in the loss of the changes more recent than the last official release (which was somewhere in 2005).

Old Post 03-26-10 11:36 #
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Graf Zahl
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theleo_ua said:


What can you say about Sycraft's version of doom 2 map31?




It's the one track in there which I really don't like. It suffers from some of the same problems of any other attempt to play it back on something else than a Roland card.

I use a recording from an original Roland for that song instead. It's really the only thing that sounds right.

Old Post 03-26-10 12:19 #
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theleo_ua
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kristus said:

I can't say what the Raven composer used while making the music. But "how it is supposed to sound" surely would be defined by that person.



I dont know, what Kevin Schilder "supposed to hear", but DosBox sound looks pretty awesome.

And if he will hear "windows general midi" version - he will suicide himself.

BTW: in your video of first level of curse.wad - opl version playing:)

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Old Post 03-26-10 12:19 #
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Graf Zahl said:

I use a recording from an original Roland for that song instead. It's really the only thing that sounds right.



Can you upload mp3 (to rapidshare for example)? Really want to hear "genuine" map31 music from the ancients:)

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Old Post 03-26-10 12:22 #
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Graf Zahl
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Thy the one from this page. It's not the very best quality but it's certainly enough to give you an idea:

http://www.doomworld.com/classicdoo...p?wad=doom2.wad

Old Post 03-26-10 12:34 #
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Forgot to say:

Imho best version of E1M3 music from Doom 1 is an remsatered (remixed) one by DJ Redlight. Really nice layer samples.

But OPL version (that I heard in 1995) is not bad too.

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Old Post 03-26-10 12:53 #
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Graf Zahl said:
Thy the one from this page. It's not the very best quality but it's certainly enough to give you an idea:

http://www.doomworld.com/classicdoo...p?wad=doom2.wad



Thanks

Will try it today evening

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In case anyone is interested, the next version of Chocolate Doom will include the opl-branch work. It isn't finished yet but it's pretty close to the original at this point IMO, and good enough for a stable release. If you have a sound card with an OPL chip, Chocolate Doom can drive it.

Obviously this is for Doom, not Heretic; however, if I do a merge onto raven-branch, Chocolate Heretic will also inherit it.

Old Post 03-26-10 14:13 #
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theleo_ua
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fraggle said:
In case anyone is interested, the next version of Chocolate Doom will include the opl-branch work. It isn't finished yet but it's pretty close to the original at this point IMO, and good enough for a stable release. If you have a sound card with an OPL chip, Chocolate Doom can drive it.

Obviously this is for Doom, not Heretic; however, if I do a merge onto raven-branch, Chocolate Heretic will also inherit it.



Never tried Cholocate Doom\Heretic before, but after your post I will try:)

I will check http://www.chocolate-doom.org for next releases, and will try it when OPL sound will be officially released.

Thanks

BTW: are there any tips to launch it correct (for example some special ingame options or some packages and so on) ? Especially I want to see sound and midi options for correct opl playing, because Zdoom for example has a lot of such midi options, and only creators of Zdoom know, what configuration will play best.

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