Fastest OpenGL source port engine for WADS?

Can someone please run VortexCortex's OpenGL Sample Implementation (Reference Renderer) program on gzdoom 1.4.8 and upload the results? Just for us laymen who want a look. A comparison to the current skulltag version (open source one if need be) might be interesting too.

Mancubus II said:
While valid, that wasn't quite my point. My point was in the opposite direction - graf should not expect that just because he is doing something as a hobby that it won't get criticism.

He had stated previously that he "didn't have much time" for GZDoom. Add to that some dudes from his neighborhood, the ZDoom-related community, acting like their $250 paid subscription hasn't been satisfied and you have the drop that spills the glass and a "kthnx, bye!"

VortexCortex said:
When people complain about something enough, even Microsoft will eventually own up and look into the issue...

Incidentally, they're a business corporation and lose (or don't gain) money if they don't "own up". In a hobby, at best you won't lose too much money or time by following this or that demand from people you don't know and that have little or nothing to give you in return. Often not even thanks, yet maybe even more requests.

VortexCortex said:

Seriously, do you think a company stays profitable SELLING top end graphics hardware that is utterly broken?
(wow, just....wow)

What matters is Direct3D. OpenGL plays second fiddle. This is becoming more and more true given that now games are no longer developed for the PC, but for the Xbox (aka "DirectX box") and then just haphazardly and half-heartedly ported to the PC with a shit-ton of DRM crippleware built-in just so as to lament about how PC gamers are a bunch of nasty pirates.

VortexCortex said:

Even other games (like Spleen mentioned glboom+) which do things very similar to the way Graf's engine does things work fine

But you said it was a completely flawed way to do things, just a "proof of concept" code, and it would have to be reworked from the ground up with mainstream methods.

VortexCortex said:

I saw the hoards of evil memory munching bugs lurking just out of everyone else's sight, and I didn't run for the hills...

Two functions are not a horde.

VortexCortex said:

(It's not so much the memory leaks, but using pointers to ram that's been freed, and using variables without initializing them first -- that's C 101, chapter 1 page 1, first paragraph: Using Variables!).

Your valgrind report says there's a variable used without initialization in this function:

	bool SafeCheckRange(angle_t startAngle, angle_t endAngle)
	{
		if(startAngle > endAngle)
		{
			return (IsRangeVisible(startAngle, ANGLE_MAX) || IsRangeVisible(0, endAngle));
		}
		
		return IsRangeVisible(startAngle, endAngle);
	}

So... I find it hard to believe that they are not actually initialized. Going up the chain of calls doesn't make it more likely that the values that are passed as parameters could actually be not initialized -- we're talking about vertex position, if they weren't set to what they're supposed to be the geometry wouldn't even be right. Given that there are evidence that your report is actually about Skulltag and not any recent version of GZDoom, that makes your allegations of bugs irrelevant at best -- this is your problem, not Graf's anymore.

Gez said:

What matters is Direct3D. OpenGL plays second fiddle. This is becoming more and more true given that now games are no longer developed for the PC, but for the Xbox (aka "DirectX box") and then just haphazardly and half-heartedly ported to the PC with a shit-ton of DRM crippleware built-in just so as to lament about how PC gamers are a bunch of nasty pirates.

Gez said:

Your valgrind report says there's a variable used without initialization in this function:

	bool SafeCheckRange(angle_t startAngle, angle_t endAngle)
	{
		if(startAngle > endAngle)
		{
			return (IsRangeVisible(startAngle, ANGLE_MAX) || IsRangeVisible(0, endAngle));
		}
		
		return IsRangeVisible(startAngle, endAngle);
	}

So... I find it hard to believe that they are not actually initialized.

So even if the debugger is saying "hey there's a problem here", you ignore it because you don't see it very well at first, nor do you test and dig for the problem to fix it. Fantastically lazy. I'm sure you ignore GCC warnings too?

And tonight's victor is...! *drum roll*

Everyone loses.

Csonicgo said:

So even if the debugger is saying "hey there's a problem here", you ignore it because you don't see it very well at first, nor do you test and dig for the problem to fix it. Fantastically lazy. I'm sure you ignore GCC warnings too?

VC posts some error report, I look into it, find out that it's actually unusable, and that's laziness on my part? I'm not even the developer, but I'm lazy by investigating bug reports?

Are you completely out of your fucking mind or what?

Gez said:

So... I find it hard to believe that they are not actually initialized. Going up the chain of calls doesn't make it more likely that the values that are passed as parameters could actually be not initialized -- we're talking about vertex position, if they weren't set to what they're supposed to be the geometry wouldn't even be right. Given that there are evidence that your report is actually about Skulltag and not any recent version of GZDoom, that makes your allegations of bugs irrelevant at best -- this is your problem, not Graf's anymore.

Why you are talking with him? He is just stupid idiot. I do not understand why Graf has not answered: "fuck you". I thought Graf has an immunity to idiotic declarations like "GZDoom sucks, GrafZahl is loser". Everybody know, GrafZahl is one of the most skilled programmers in Doom community and he does more Doom work than all others taken together. He did much unique work for making GL renderer similar to software, etc, etc. His port is the fastest port after glboom+. Just because glboom+ is very simple. And yes, AlexMax, you have to say "Oh Graf please we're just kidding, your port is perfect, please continue maintaining it.", because GZDoom is really perfect.

Csonicgo said:

So even if the debugger is saying "hey there's a problem here", you ignore it because you don't see it very well at first, nor do you test and dig for the problem to fix it. Fantastically lazy. I'm sure you ignore GCC warnings too?

Please, shut up if you are not a programmer.

Yesterday you have lost something significant. Sad.

Gez said:

but I'm lazy by investigating bug reports?

You only investigated to flame and discredit. Nothing more.

entryway said:

Yesterday you have lost something significant. Sad.

We lost a person who threw his fanbase under the bus. Oh, what armchair warriors we are. I remember fondly when I grabbed Graf Zahl's hand and made him push the delete key, wiping out years of binaries to which there were no backups to.

Csonicgo said:

You only investigated to flame and discredit. Nothing more.

No, I investigated to fix bugs. I use GZDoom myself; if I can fix bugs in it, then it benefits me. My interest in investigating bug reports about memory leaks and uninitialized variables is genuine.

I found two functions with actual problems, and posted a fix (guess I needn't have bothered since when I came back to Doomworld after that Graf had already thrown his tantrum). The rest of the report is unusable, though, so I confronted VC about it. Who is trying to flame and discredit who when you post error reports about bugs that do not exist anymore?

Gez said:

I found two functions with actual problems, and posted a fix (guess I needn't have bothered since when I came back to Doomworld after that Graf had already thrown his tantrum). The rest of the report is unusable, though, so I confronted VC about it.

Gez, you got me, as you actually investigated and found something that still existed in the code, whereas Graf dismissed it outright. You gain my respect for that, as Graf didn't even bother.

Csonicgo said:

I remember fondly when I grabbed Graf Zahl's hand and made him push the delete key...

You got that one perfectly right, shithead. It's people like you (particularly you, btw.) I no longer want to deal with and that made me quit.

I can deal with the occasional overzealous criticism (but if you do, don't act surprised if I react accordingly) but the one thing I absolutely have no desire to deal with whatsoever anymore is the idiotic faction that flames and insults for the sake of it.

wiping out years of binaries to which there were no backups to.

Do you really think I m that stupid to obliterate this stuff completely?
Someone just needs to say 'please' (nicely, please!)

whereas Graf dismissed it outright. You gain my respect for that, as Graf didn't even bother.

Yes, why should I bother to investigate something in a project I decided not to maintain any longer?

Graf Zahl said:

Someone just needs to say 'please' (nicely, please!)

Amuse me, then.

Why'd you delete them to begin with?

And why did you ask me to delete an entire forum - years worth of posts - among which I had to spend effort converting, and transferring, over the years, to preserve its history? And that I invested hard core cash into helping to host, to keep it available for everyone?

Graf Zahl said:

Someone just needs to say 'please' (nicely, please!)

Please Graf, Keep working on your renderer for the good of the community. Despite our differences, you do seem to enjoy working on it, and others enjoy using your renderer.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't mean to hurt your feelings so deeply, as I said, I just had a very bad day, and snapped under the frustration of your continued baseless ATI bashing.

If you do resume your project could you also please try to investigate Nvidia, ATI and Intel bugs using the free resources that are available to all OpenGL programmers?

If you do care about your community -- It would be very helpful to us all if you could also please stop baselessly bashing ATI and Intel cards until you're certain they are the actual cause of the problem via eliminating all doubt using the aforementioned tools since this is the source of much user rage (admittedly even my own), and will allow you to eliminate bugs much more quickly.

No one writes absolutely perfect code on the first try (not even I), and I understand it's not as hard for me to admit this as it is for others...

[ I do believe that SoulPriestess deserves an explanation from you, as well.. ]

VortexCortex said:

No one writes absolutely perfect code on the first try (not even I)

EVEN YOU???// Who the fuck are you? Illegitimate child of Carmack or who?

VortexCortex said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't mean to hurt your feelings so deeply, as I said, I just had a very bad day, and snapped under the frustration of your continued baseless ATI bashing.

It's that easy to get to you? Wow. I am truly impressed by your lack of self restrain. :p

Graf Zahl said:

[Csonicgo sarcasm]

You got that one perfectly right, shithead. It's people like you (particularly you, btw.) I no longer want to deal with and that made me quit.

Why on earth did you post this

Do you really think I m that stupid to obliterate this stuff completely?
Someone just needs to say 'please' (nicely, please!)

So this is all some ruse to make people beg for you to return to your throne, as there can only be chaos without your infinite wisdom?

I can't say I blame Graf Zahl for giving this up. For a long time now he's been the victim of constant flames from a group of idiotic trolls who for some reason seem to have decided that they hate him and all his (excellent, by the way) work. If I was in his position I'd probably do the same thing.

You guys are fucking pricks. I hope you're happy.

Fisk said:

So this is all some ruse to make people beg for you to return to your throne, as there can only be chaos without your infinite wisdom?

No, how about you learn to read? He's saying he has backups of the old binaries which he will give to someone if they ask nicely.

fraggle said:

No, how about you learn to read? He's saying he has backups of the old binaries which he will give to someone if they ask nicely.

countless copies of Graf's SVN floating around, no doubt including the old shit

thx for clearing that one up, man

Fisk said:

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "BINARIES" AND A "SOURCE CODE REPOSITORY"

Don't bother trying to understand what you're trying to talk about, it's obviously way above your intellectual level. Stick to something you're better at, like banging your head against a brick wall, for example. You probably have more experience of it, anyway.

I frankly don't see your point in the slightest. I'm not exactly the greatest programmer in the world but what would be the difference between having a binary of a program and having the source to that same binary, to which you can readily build into the same binary - save the menial task of clicking "build"?

It's a nice gesture that you're going through the extra trouble of trying to make me feel stupid, but I just don't see why you're making that extra effort.

Bad times :( ... 2 ports down already this year..

The SVN repository does not cover all versions of the binary (initial import was of version 1.0.32) and rebuilding the binaries is not just a question of clicking "Build" since the development environment (notably the APIs) may have changed a lot in the meantime.

Graf Zahl said:

Do you really think I m that stupid to obliterate this stuff completely?
Someone just needs to say 'please' (nicely, please!)

Called it. Way to hold your community hostage over internet drama you unrepentant jerk.

entryway said:

And yes, AlexMax, you have to say "Oh Graf please we're just kidding, your port is perfect, please continue maintaining it.", because GZDoom is really perfect.

I'll take your word for it, but see my response to fraggle below.

fraggle said:

You guys are fucking pricks. I hope you're happy.

The quality of his code is irrelevant if he throws temper tantrums like a two year old over what essentially boils down to people on the Internet...making fun of him? Honestly, I don't really see where the "making fun of him" part even entered this thread (not that it doesn't happen and said people are wrong to have done it), people have legitimate complaints about his port and his attitude (even his former host) and he decided to try and SHOW THEM ALL!!!111

Gez said:

The SVN repository does not cover all versions of the binary (initial import was of version 1.0.32) and rebuilding the binaries is not just a question of clicking "Build" since the development environment (notably the APIs) may have changed a lot in the meantime.

And with this new understanding, I back out of the discussion. I apologize to Graf Zahl for the partial misunderstanding.

However, why you would blame anyone but yourself for deciding to delete everything, which was entirely under your control, is still far beyond me.

Just popping in there to say I really appreciate all the hard work Graf put into GZDoom and also think it's the best looking port. It's a shame that he's getting so much abuse over making a great program for free.

For that matter, that's not a suck-up "please come back" comment as I use GLBoom+ for 99% of my dooming (because of demo recording and doom/boom compat) and think GZDoom's renderer is damn near perfect as it is in terms of performance and eyecandy ; so, I wouldn't care in the slightest if there wasn't any further release.

As for Graf's detractors... Whole lot of friends backing other friends, and people claiming they know better but don't actually contribute anything to the community. So, you guys are actually *worse* than useless, as not only you don't produce anything of value but you manage to make one of the few talented people who do leave. Good job.

@Phml: In other words, if you're not part of the solution ...

AlexMax said:

The quality of his code is irrelevant if he throws temper tantrums like a two year old over what essentially boils down to people on the Internet...making fun of him? Honestly, I don't really see where the "making fun of him" part even entered this thread (not that it doesn't happen and said people are wrong to have done it), people have legitimate complaints about his port and his attitude (even his former host) and he decided to try and SHOW THEM ALL!!!111

There's a difference between people making legitimate complaints and criticisms of GZDoom, and a group of people engaging in a deliberate campaign to troll and flame Graf Zahl at every opportunity. Frankly I'm surprised that he's put up with it for this long without just giving up.

Phml said:

As for Graf's detractors... Whole lot of friends backing other friends, and people claiming they know better but don't actually contribute anything to the community. So, you guys are actually *worse* than useless, as not only you don't produce anything of value but you manage to make one of the few talented people who do leave. Good job.

Exactly.

I'm with fraggle here. If the FREE software doesn't do what you want it to, get over it. It's a hobby project, released for free, and you're offered no guarantee that it will work. If I had to put up with constant antagonism from people who feel bizarrely entitled I would probably quit too. It's a terrible shame because GZDoom is an excellent port.