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E.J.
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Hello.

I was wondering if any one else had ever encountered this problem, using the Doom2.exe from the Final Doom installation.

I cannot get the setup to enable sound, and I've tried multiple combinations thereof.

Does Final Doom's original "Doom2.exe" require you to have a sound card, or will it work with an onboard audio chip?

And...does it maybe have issues with any version of the Windows 9x systems like Win -> 95/98/ME?

BTW - The reason I'm using the original executable is for DOS "dehacked" purposes.

Old Post 06-09-10 17:50 #
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Gez
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It doesn't require you to use a soundcard, but it needs DOS soundcard drivers... Just use DOSBox.

Also, just about all source ports written after BOOM support DEHACKED. Use Chocolate Doom, PrBoom+, Eternity, ZDoom, whatever, and they'll be able to load the dehacked files directly. (Use the -deh parameter to load them.)

Old Post 06-09-10 18:05 #
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E.J.
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I'm actually trying to get it to work so I can use it with the actual Dehacked program.

I'd rather not run DOSbox under a DOS compatible OS, ie - Windows 3.1/95/98/ME.

Anyone have an idea if Doom2.exe needs a sound card installed?

Old Post 06-09-10 19:03 #
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Porsche Monty
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E.J. said:
I'm actually trying to get it to work so I can use it with the actual Dehacked program.

I'd rather not run DOSbox under a DOS compatible OS, ie - Windows 3.1/95/98/ME.

Anyone have an idea if Doom2.exe needs a sound card installed?



No, it does not. Let's try again: http://www.doomworld.com/linguica/doomonxp.htm

Old Post 06-09-10 19:16 #
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E.J.
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I appreciate the sentiment, but XP is a NT based OS.

It doesn't run a lot of DOS, or 9x, based proggies.

Again, from someone who may have experienced this sound issue running the ORIGINAL executable that came with the games...?

BTW - The music works with the General MIDI selection.

Old Post 06-09-10 19:23 #
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Quasar
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E.J. said:
I appreciate the sentiment, but XP is a NT based OS.

It doesn't run a lot of DOS, or 9x, based proggies.

Again, from someone who may have experienced this sound issue running the ORIGINAL executable that came with the games...?

BTW - The music works with the General MIDI selection.


In my experience I couldn't run DOOM under Windows 98 at all because of the protected mode sound drivers that were loaded. I had to reboot into pure DOS mode, or I'd get a nasty system lockup.

Old Post 06-09-10 19:35 #
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myk
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The DOS engine gets sound fine in Windows 9x, as long as it's set up correctly.

You need to install a sound card with applicable drivers (I'm guessing they are there, since you say MIDI works) and then set Doom2 up to use the correct settings with Setup.

Does sound work on the system, in general? If you can hear the windows sounds or play a WAV, sound should be ready.

Make sure the IRQ and DMA settings for the sound card on the system match with those selected in the Setup application. Try different IRQ and DMA settings in Setup if you don't get sound and aren't sure what the system sound setting are.


Porsche Monty said:
Let's try again:
Yeah, at reading comprehension :p

Old Post 06-09-10 21:01 #
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Solid Snake
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E.J. said:


Again, from someone who may have experienced this sound issue running the ORIGINAL executable that came with the games...?

BTW - The music works with the General MIDI selection.



I remember trying to get sound effects work on XP many years ago. I really didn't know that much about doom back then. It was when i discovered doom again after been playing it a lot many more years ago when i was still in the first grade. :-D Good times.

Anyway, i got the music work but after hours of struggle with the sounds i just sucked it down. If i had internet connection back then i would definitely had looked into the thing and discovered the source ports much earlier. But yeah, what can you do.

Last edited by Solid Snake on 06-09-10 at 23:53

Old Post 06-09-10 23:48 #
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E.J.
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Does sound work on the system, in general? If you can hear the windows sounds or play a WAV, sound should be ready.

Yes, the sound is working, but it's from an MoBo chipset. I haven't any sound cards for it.

In the setup config, it only has options for cards - like the Gravis Ultrasound, Sound Blaster, etc...


If i had internet connection back then, i would definitely had looked into the thing and discovered the source ports much earlier. But yeah, what can you do.

Well if I wanted to use a source port, I'd use one. I need to get this working to be able to stand using the Dehacked program. Otherwise, why would I be using the original 'doom2.exe'?

Old Post 06-09-10 23:59 #
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myk
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E.J. said:
In the setup config, it only has options for cards - like the Gravis Ultrasound, Sound Blaster, etc...
Yeah, first it asks what card you have and then asks for data on how the card is set up. Try going over the Sound Blaster options. You could also go to your Control Panel, to the Device Manager tab from the System icon and check what sound card you have (in Sound, video and game controllers.) It may say there whether it's Sound Blaster compatible.

Old Post 06-10-10 00:10 #
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Solid Snake
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E.J. said:


Well if I wanted to use a source port, I'd use one. I need to get this working to be able to stand using the Dehacked program. Otherwise, why would I be using the original 'doom2.exe'?



That might be (and probably is) a dumb question, but what can you do with DeHackEd that you can't do with Zdoom and XWE for example?

Old Post 06-10-10 00:18 #
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myk
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You can make a vanilla-compatible add-on which changes game behavior. Another option for testing and using such add-ons is Chocolate Doom, if all fails setting Doom up, although it's best used in a more modern version of Windows, as there seems to be a bug that causes terminations on Windows 9x that needs to be found.

Old Post 06-10-10 00:26 #
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Solid Snake
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I actually have tried using DeHackEd myself in the past, but then i was like nah fuck it, too complicated. But now its getting interesting so E.J's problem is my problem too from now on lol.

Old Post 06-10-10 00:36 #
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myk
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Well, E.J.'s problem is to get the original executable to run on Windows 9x. If you use a more modern system you can use DOSBox to run the executable, and Chocolate Doom will do a good job for testing and playing vanilla add-ons.

Old Post 06-10-10 01:04 #
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Solid Snake
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Right. So XP should do the trick. Thanks for explaining this stuff.

Old Post 06-10-10 01:23 #
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Never_Again
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Last edited by Never_Again on 06-13-10 at 17:52

Old Post 06-10-10 06:53 #
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E.J.
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Never_Again said:
...

Go to Device Manager and find your audio chip. Typically it's under Sound, video and game controllers. Open its Properties, go to the Resources tab.

* Setup's Port Address: from 210 to 280.

* Setup's IRQ: 2, 5 or 7 - Interrupt Request on the Resources tab.

* Setup's DMA channel: 0, 1, 3, 5, 6, 7 - Direct Memory Access on the Resources tab.



Okay, I think I understand this. The properties only showed the I/O port address (0220 -> 0227), and the IRQ (05), but no DMA setting.

I had eventually found the correct settings by trial & error, but every time I exited, the sound disappeared on reloading the games.


Never_Again said:
Once you matched the settings in Device Manager to those in DOOM's setup, add the following line to your C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT:

code:
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T6 P330 H5



This fixed that problem, although I'm not sure why.

Thanks a bunch. ;)

Old Post 06-10-10 15:05 #
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Never_Again
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Last edited by Never_Again on 06-13-10 at 17:52

Old Post 06-10-10 16:00 #
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E.J.
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Well... after a couple more reboots the issue has returned. :0

So, I went back into the Device Manager, right clicked on 'Computer', and selected properties. Turns out that after I select the DMA tab, it only shows COM1, COM2, and the printer port having DMA.

But also checking the I/O, where my MPU-401 device is acessed, it show that the DMA manager has access to the I/O as well.

Because of the random nature of the working sound fx, I'm done with this anyways. But it turns out that in order to play the original Doom/Doom2/Final executables with sound effects, you need a sound card/chip with DMA access.

Just FYI only Windows 95 (OEM), Windows 98, and Windows ME support DMA. Obviously, In addition you'd also need a sound device that be compatible with it as well.

Old Post 06-10-10 20:14 #
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Porsche Monty
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E.J. said:
Because of the random nature of the working sound fx, I'm done with this anyways. But it turns out that in order to play the original Doom/Doom2/Final executables with sound effects, you need a sound card/chip with DMA access


From the official README.TXT, line 326:

"I can't get digital sound from my Sound Blaster compatible
sound card.

You are experiencing a DMA conflict. You may have a CD-ROM
or hard drive on the same DMA channel that you specified in
DOOM II's SETUP program. Change the DMA channel of the sound
card or offending device"

Old Post 06-11-10 01:23 #
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GreyGhost
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E.J. said:

Yes, the sound is working, but it's from an MoBo chipset. I haven't any sound cards for it.

What's your motherboard's make and model? It'll be a little easier to offer suggestions if we know the nature of the beast. Have you checked the BIOS for sound chip settings?

Old Post 06-11-10 04:12 #
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Maes
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Wow...quite adrift here aren't we?

To make a long story short, unless your motherboard has a "Soundblaster compatible" integrated sound chip or at least a Sound Blaster compatibility option in the BIOS (I have an old Intel-made PII mobo that has just that), you're never going to make it work without jumping through hoops. The I/O, DMA and IRQ you're talking about have nothing to do with the card being a Sound Blaster: every sound card has them.

Again, it would help immensely if you posted the make and model of your motherboard.

There are the following cases:


  1. If you're "lucky" and have an old PIII board with ISA slots, you can pop an ISA Sound Blaster or compatible card in and you're game.
  2. Next best thing is your integrated soundcard having direct hardware Sound Blaster compatibility (which however seems unlikely, given the trouble it gave you). On some this is "always on", on some you have to set through the BIOS (my Intel board even allow you to select precise DMA/IRQ/IO, but only emulates a SB Pro, not a SB16).
  3. No hardware compatibility, but emulation drivers available. If there are, they will be nasty DOS affair which will force you to mess with autoexec.bat and config.sys most of the time.
  4. No hardware compatibility, and NO emulation drivers for DOS. This means that you're fucked, unless you're willing to try VDMSOund for Windows 9x *Alpha*. I'd actually prefer that if I wanted to run DOS DOOM from inside Windows.


You also didn't specify if you want to run DOOM from the command line or from inside Windows, as that will change the options available too.

But for the last time: PLEASE POST YOUR MOTHERBOARD'S MAKE AND MODEL, CPU TYPE, OS USED ETC. else we can keep speculating for 10 pages more and come to no conclusion.

Old Post 06-11-10 10:55 #
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E.J.
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From the BIOS:
The only thing I can see is that I have 5 DMA ports, 0 through 4.

The floppy, cd-rw, and hard drives all use DMA port 2 (in Ultra mode).

The only other DMA port I can change is the ECP printer port, which is set at port 3. There's no mention of Sound Blaster compatibility, or even a DMA port for the sound chipset.

From the OS:
I went into these settings:
Device Manager -> Computer -> Properties -> View Resources -> Direct Memory Access.

It shows the Floppy at DMA 2, the ECP printer at DMA 3, and the DMA controller at DMA 4. That would leave 0, and 1, open for business. If indeed the sound chipset has DMA, I can't find mention of anywhere.

The PC is a Trigem Cognac MoBo, with a Pentium III/Celeron processor. The OS is Windows ME, don't ask...

Out of all the older PCs I have, this is the fastest processor wise, but there are no sound cards in sight. (I find the PCs for free, usually...)

I just figured that cutting out the middle men, and possible extraneous variables, would be the best in avoiding issues. If it will run on original hardware (not DOSBox), and run with the original EXEs (not ChocDoom), then I would be sure.

After all, ports like ZDoom/PrBoom/Etc can load non-vanilla dehacked data (frame 966), or even BEX format, and I don't want that.

Honesty though, if ChocoDoom is up to testing Vanilla compat dehacked, I'll be using that on my current PC. Is there an estimate on how close Chocolate Doom is to currently being to a final revision?

Last edited by E.J. on 06-11-10 at 12:47

Old Post 06-11-10 12:42 #
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Maes
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Well, seems you have one of these: either a small factor PC/embedded/fucked up laptop/big name "office PC".

In any case, the audio subsystem is just an AC'97 compatible with NO Sound Blaster compatibility.

DOS Doom DOES NOT work directly with those, and it's pointless trying to find DMAs or other stuff for it, it's a plug'n play PCI device with no SB compatibility at all (or a very flaky one, at best, found only in older implementations).

End of story.

You can only use Windows source ports, DOSBOX or an emulation layer like VDMSound, better if under 2000/XP, if you're still adamant about using DOS Doom with sound at all costs.

Old Post 06-11-10 12:56 #
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E.J.
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You can only use Windows source ports, DOSBOX or an emulation layer like VDMSound, better if under 2000/XP, if you're still adamant about using DOS Doom with sound at all costs.

No to the Windows ports, and DOSBox. I remember using a version on 2K Pro a few years back, so I may look into the VDMSound for Win9x.

Other than that, I may try setting up FreeDOS on my current system, which is already running a dual-boot 32/64bit Vista.

Hopefully, I won't be coming back and asking how to set it up... ;)

Old Post 06-11-10 13:13 #
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fraggle
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As a side note, you should be able to use DOS dehacked with a source port (eg. Chocolate Doom) if that's easier. Set it up so that you're using dehacked to edit the DOS executables, but saving .deh patches that you can test using the source port to load them (-deh)


E.J. said:
Honesty though, if ChocoDoom is up to testing Vanilla compat dehacked, I'll be using that on my current PC. Is there an estimate on how close Chocolate Doom is to currently being to a final revision?
What do you mean by "final revision"? I'm not planning on stopping development any time soon. I can never guarantee that there aren't any bugs in there, but practically speaking it's almost as close to Vanilla as it's likely to ever get.

Old Post 06-11-10 13:31 #
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E.J.
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You can only use Windows source ports, DOSBOX or an emulation layer like VDMSound, better if under 2000/XP, if you're still adamant about using DOS Doom with sound at all costs.
^This^ doesn't work. The Alpha for Win9x had screeching/scratching blasting, when sound effects were enabled. The Windows 2K/XP version only enabled MIDI playback, but only when sound effects were turned off through the setup.exe. So, VDMSound leaves you at square one in Doom options.


As a side note, you should be able to use DOS dehacked with a source port (eg. Chocolate Doom) if that's easier. Set it up so that you're using dehacked to edit the DOS executables, but saving .deh patches that you can test using the source port to load them (-deh)

If I were to test it in Chocolate Doom anyways, I'd have no reason to use the original DOS dehacked. That is what I'll do though, use ChocoDoom, and create ".deh' files by hand in a text editor.


What do you mean by "final revision"? I'm not planning on stopping development any time soon.

No offense intended, I just assumed the goal of the project would eventually be met, considering it's non-acceptance of anything "extra" being added.

Well, this whole thing has at least taught me a little more about DOS compatible PC configurations. If I ever get some money to spend, I'll set up a real,classic, DOS/Doom box.

Thanks for all the input. :|

Old Post 06-12-10 17:50 #
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Gez
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E.J. said:
If I were to test it in Chocolate Doom anyways, I'd have no reason to use the original DOS dehacked. That is what I'll do though, use ChocoDoom, and create ".deh' files by hand in a text editor.

This doesn't make sense. DeHackEd lets you create patch files. You can use it, you don't have to make them by hand if you don't want to. And once you have patch files, you can test them in just about any source port except Doom95.


E.J. said:
No offense intended, I just assumed the goal of the project would eventually be met, considering it's non-acceptance of anything "extra" being added.

Even if it is, maintenance is still needed, if only just to adapt to platform evolution.

Old Post 06-12-10 18:04 #
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Maes
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E.J. said:
So, VDMSound leaves you at square one in Doom options.


TBQH, I *personally* never had any luck with VDMSound and DOOM: while it worked fairly OK with other more obscure DOS games, it was a big letdown with DOOM (I got MIDI sound through Windows' MIDI, for which I didn't need VDMSound to begin with, and a very unstable behavior with "Sound Blaster" enabled, usually resulting in a great slowdown and crashing after 1 minute).

I also got mixed behavior WITHOUT any emulation layers: e.g. on an old Compaq Presario 910EA laptop, I got SB SFX with no emulation layers with Doom running in a window, but it was scratchy, slow, and ultimately, unstable. The specs for the laptop said it had "SB Pro compatibility". Indeed I got SOME output in other DOS titles as well, but it was always a painful affair. And it only worked with SP0: after I upgraded to SP1/SP2 even that very limited compatibility stopped working, and it didn't work any more recent PCs I tried this trick on.

Old Post 06-12-10 19:11 #
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Mike.Reiner
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Wow, I guess I lucked out with my old Athlon XP system. It's a Athlon 2800+, I installed 98se and it's drivers for the hell of it and it played vanilla doom just fine.

Either way, I really think the best route to playing vanilla or vanilla style doom is with chocolate doom, dosbox, or the appropriate -complevel in prboom-plus.


E.J. said:
The OS is Windows ME, don't ask...

Oh but I must!

Speaking of vanilla doom and dosbox, I just played through Suspended in Dusk that way.

What a mapset....

Old Post 06-14-10 03:05 #
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