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derp
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Hey everyone. I'm new to this forum and I was wondering... Which source port is supposed to be the best one?

I've been playing Doom since I was about 7 years old (yeah, parents really didn't care back then. I'm 16 now). I recently bought Doom over the Xbox Live Marketplace, but I want to get back into the classic PC version. I don't care for the multiplayer that much, but I havn't tried it on the PC.

Anyway, I'm big into the single player. I'm kinda noobish though and don't know much about all the modding, WADs, etc. I'm a pretty good player, I just don't know anything out of what iD has released, lol. I heard some ports are better for single player than multiplayer and vice versa.

It would be nice to play some new maps and maybe have better graphics too. Which one is the best for what I'm looking for?

Please reply soon. Thanks :)

-Derp

Old Post 09-07-10 07:39 #
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esselfortium
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Honestly, it depends what you're looking for. Everyone is going to give you a different answer.

Personally, I use Eternity Engine for nearly all of my single-player play. It keeps a high level of compatibility with the original game while also adding a lot of new features for users and flexibility for modders. It also has a very fast, high-precision rewrite of Doom's software renderer.

As far as modding goes, though, I'm currently involved in mapping for Eternity, ZDoom, Skulltag, vanilla (that's what the original doom.exe is referred to around these parts), Boom (a sourceport from 1998 whose feature set has become somewhat of a standard for most popular ports today), and Doom64EX.

All different ports have different strong points and weaknesses, that you'll have to weigh out depending on what you're looking for, either as a player or a modder. Most of us have a favorite port that we prefer to play in or mod for, but have several others installed to be able to play wads created for them.

Old Post 09-07-10 07:45 #
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Jodwin
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The question which port is the best one is rather irrelevant, considering that you can and should have multiple ports installed. As a player, what matters the most to you is how well you're able to play whatever wads you want to, and for that you need to have different ports.

I'd recommend having at least prboom+ and (G)ZDoom: Prboom+ is able to play all the old wads the way they were meant to be played, while ZDoom has a lot of exclusive projects. Eternity Engine which essel mentioned has some interesting projects going on for it but for now it's not as "necessary" for players as the other two are.

If having multiple ports around and managing them sounds like a daunting task, you can get a frontend/launcher like http://www.akinomori.com/cdl/ to make things easier.

Old Post 09-07-10 07:57 #
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entryway
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Eternity is software based port, so it is slow on default resolutions of modern monitors

Eternity is sdl-based software port, so it does not support vsync or does have issue with palette on modern OSes

Eternity is restricted with 35 Hz, so it will not be comfortable for new users.


The first ports you should try are g/zdoom and doomsday.

Last edited by entryway on 09-07-10 at 08:06

Old Post 09-07-10 07:57 #
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derp
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Jodwin said:
The question which port is the best one is rather irrelevant, considering that you can and should have multiple ports installed. As a player, what matters the most to you is how well you're able to play whatever wads you want to, and for that you need to have different ports.

I'd recommend having at least prboom+ and (G)ZDoom: Prboom+ is able to play all the old wads the way they were meant to be played, while ZDoom has a lot of exclusive projects. Eternity Engine which essel mentioned has some interesting projects going on for it but for now it's not as "necessary" for players as the other two are.



With ZDoom, am I able to play the original WADs? I don't understand exactly what different WADs have. Like I said, I'm kinda a noob with all this stuff lol.

Old Post 09-07-10 08:07 #
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esselfortium
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entryway said:
Eternity is software based port, so it is slow on default resolutions of modern monitors

Bullshit. I can run gigantic high-detail scenes from Vaporware at 1680x1050 without issue.


Eternity is sdl-based software port, so it does not support vsync or does have issue with palette

I haven't had vsync issues, and I have no idea what the second part is. It's a paletted game? Yes, that's what Doom is...


Eternity is restricted with 35 Hz, so it will not be comfortable for new users.

Much like Doom itself?


The first ports you should try are g/zdoom and doomsday.

Troll harder please.


Jodwin said:
I'd recommend having at least prboom+ and (G)ZDoom: Prboom+ is able to play all the old wads the way they were meant to be played, while ZDoom has a lot of exclusive projects. Eternity Engine which essel mentioned has some interesting projects going on for it but for now it's not as "necessary" for players as the other two are.

While it could go either way, I wouldn't say one's more necessary than the other. Eternity's compatibility with old wads is comparatively quite high as well, though it doesn't have all the -complevel stuff of PrBoom (I've never bothered with complevel parameters, anyway, personally). Eternity can nowadays run Deus Vult 2 without issue, as well, so I personally don't have any use to keep PrBoom around. EE's renderer looks a lot better, and the speed is comparable. Plus, I can freelook and use a crosshair because I suck :P

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Last edited by esselfortium on 09-07-10 at 08:13

Old Post 09-07-10 08:07 #
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Graf Zahl
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entryway said:
Eternity is software based port, so it is slow on default resolutions of modern monitors

Eternity is sdl-based software port, so it does not support vsync or does have issue with palette on modern OSes

Eternity is restricted with 35 Hz, so it will not be comfortable for new users.


The first ports you should try are g/zdoom and doomsday.




You forgot one caveat:

Eternity used SDL Mixer so it can't take any advantage of multithreading on multi-core CPUs. (well, but so does PrBoom+ :P)


Enough port dissing though. The worst thing here is that 2 of the 3 issues I personally have with Eternity come from that abomination called SDL and all its associated problems (the third issue being the 35fps frame rate cap.) How old is the current version of this library? I don't think there has been a major update in recent years, has there?

Old Post 09-07-10 08:08 #
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derp
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esselfortium said:

All different ports have different strong points and weaknesses, that you'll have to weigh out depending on what you're looking for, either as a player or a modder.



I'm probably not going to be modding anything anytime soon haha. Just playing mostly single player.

I'd like to play new maps along with better graphics, but I still want to play the originals also.

Old Post 09-07-10 08:09 #
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Graf Zahl
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esselfortium said:

Bullshit. I can run gigantic high-detail scenes from Vaporware at 1680x1050 without issue.




Yes, at 35 fps... The frame rate cap really masks the issues Entryway is referring to. So unless 35 fps really bothers you, that point is moot anyway.

Old Post 09-07-10 08:10 #
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Csonicgo


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Graf Zahl said:



Yes, at 35 fps... The frame rate cap really masks the issues Entryway is referring to. So unless 35 fps really bothers you, that point is moot anyway.



Cardboard is FAST. on extremely high resolutions I was able to coax out 70+ fps ,and this was on an older athlon CPU from 2002. If that POS can run higher than 60 FPS, a modern computer will have no problem at all running the cardboard renderer. SDL is the only real problem here.

Old Post 09-07-10 08:13 #
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entryway
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esselfortium said:
I haven't had vsync issues, and I have no idea what the second part is. It's a paletted game? Yes, that's what Doom is..

SDL just has no support for vsync for 'windib' driver. 'directx' driver does not work correctly with Vista/7.


esselfortium said:
Much like Doom itself?

There is Chocolate-Doom for 'much like Doom itself'

Old Post 09-07-10 08:14 #
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esselfortium
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entryway said:
There is Chocolate-Doom for 'much like Doom itself'

On a similar note, there is 'much like your post'

Old Post 09-07-10 08:16 #
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kristus
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Vsync cause, lag. Vsync is bad.

Old Post 09-07-10 08:20 #
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Graf Zahl
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Csonicgo said:


Cardboard is FAST. on extremely high resolutions I was able to coax out 70+ fps




The question here is, what kind of map? Some kind of reference is needed to get an idea of how fast it really is.

For example, running something simple in ZDoom's software renderer easily produces >300 fps but some performance killer maps (Hellcore's MAP09) will only produce 30-50 fps at the same resolutoon on my system.

How can I uncap the FPS rate in Eternity and have it shown on screen? I'd really like to do a comparison.


kristus said:
Vsync cause, lag. Vsync is bad.


Non-Vsync cause, tear. Non-VSync is bad. :D

Old Post 09-07-10 08:21 #
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Csonicgo


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Graf Zahl said:



How can I uncap the FPS rate in Eternity and have it shown on screen? I'd really like to do a comparison.




-timedemo and then quickly do a new game

Old Post 09-07-10 08:23 #
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entryway
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Csonicgo said:
Cardboard is FAST

Cardboard is always 35fps. Or lower. I need at least 100 on my monitor.

Old Post 09-07-10 08:33 #
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Csonicgo


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entryway said:

Cardboard is always 35fps. Or lower. I need at least 100 on my monitor.



On my brand-new LCD screen I have no issues with frameskipping or anything of the sort. 35 FPS does not mean that the screen is really drawing 35 times a second. if it did it would be the most flickery shit ever.

Old Post 09-07-10 08:36 #
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Graf Zahl
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That's not Cardboard, that's the frame rate cap that throttles it. Regardless, unless that limit is removed Cardboard will not be able to show its true strength...

Old Post 09-07-10 08:36 #
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esselfortium
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Hey again. Just stopping in to thank Entryway for turning this innocent question thread into a total shitfest of smears and nonsense. What a great, helpful way to present our community to a new user. Rock over London, rock on Chicago. Walgreens, it's the pharmacy America trusts.

Old Post 09-07-10 08:36 #
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derp
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Yeah, uhm, just throwing it out there that I don't give a crap about you're argument about fps and sh*t. I just wanted to know what Source Port was the best to play a variety of single player maps in better graphics.

For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rze7_Bnc2w

This guy is playing E2M8 and the graphics are better than the original.

Old Post 09-07-10 08:42 #
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entryway
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derp said:
Yeah, uhm, just throwing it out there that I don't give a crap about you're argument about fps and sh*t. I just wanted to know what Source Port was the best to play a variety of single player maps in better graphics.

For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rze7_Bnc2w

This guy is playing E2M8 and the graphics are better than the original.




entryway said:
The first ports you should try are g/zdoom and doomsday

or Risen3D, yeah, because it is a fork of Doomsday and it plays Boom wads too

http://risen3d.drdteam.org/

Last edited by entryway on 09-07-10 at 08:55

Old Post 09-07-10 08:47 #
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esselfortium
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That video is either Doomsday Engine or Risen3D, running with a model pack and hi-res texture replacement set. In my opinion, the hi-res texture set is a mixed bag of inconsistent style and quality, and the maps look better with the original resources they were designed for, but a quick google for "doomsday engine," "doomsday jdrp," and "doomsday jdtp" will probably quickly find you the port, the model pack (jdrp I believe), and the texture pack (jdtp). Unless they've changed the names recently, in which case I dunno. They shouldn't be too hard to find.

edit: Yawn, whatever, entryway gets to gloat about internet posts, go away

Old Post 09-07-10 08:47 #
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Csonicgo


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entryway said:



or Risen3D, yeah, because it is a fork of Doomsday and it plays Boom wads too

http://risen3d.drdteam.org/



those models look atrocious.

Old Post 09-07-10 08:55 #
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Maes
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Your religious source port wars will make derp derp.

Old Post 09-07-10 09:21 #
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entryway
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esselfortium said:
Yawn, whatever, entryway gets to gloat about internet posts, go away

Recommendation of software based port with 35 fps restriction which has problems (vsync/palette, midi) on last two OSes (Vista/7) for 16 years old guy in 2010 is just demonstration of disrespect and is useless.

Old Post 09-07-10 09:27 #
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esselfortium
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Works in Vista for me, the OP says he doesn't care about the fps bullshit, and honestly, the only time I can even tell whether I'm playing with unlatched framerate or not is if I suddenly turn it off in the middle of a game. It's a grossly exaggerated non-issue and you're acting like a complete ass about it and everything else.

If you want to recommend a port, do it like a mature adult. You're not making yourself, PrBoom+, or the ports you're recommending look any better by dragging contrary suggestions through the mud.

Old Post 09-07-10 09:29 #
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printz
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derp said:
Which source port is supposed to be the best one?
Hello, and welcome to the community!

What ports are recommended? Let's see. There's not ONE best port around here. Each has its uses.

For playing regular and classic levels that were made for "vanilla" (plain) doom.exe or doom2.exe, which can be found on this or this page (without going to the /Ports subdirectory), you should likely use Chocolate-Doom. It's a cross-platform executable that aims to replicate the original Doom behavior as closely as possible, without ANY change that might affect the levels' gameplay.

However, some times you may stumble upon various limits that existed in vanilla Doom, and keep living through Chocolate Doom. In this case, you should get PrBoom+, which is a port with gameplay enhancements, but which allows you to switch compatibility settings around, even down to Doom's version 1.2 if you like. And even if you do switch to v1.2 compatibility mode, you'll never stumble upon the limits forced by that particular Doom.exe version. It's those limits that used to suddenly terminate your program when you looked at a too complicated architecture (Visplane Error or No More Visplanes) or saved the game (Savegame Buffer Overrun---DOS shell quits as well)

PrBoom+ also plays wads in the /Ports subdirectories (like here) that (in the text file) require "Boom-compatible" source ports. You get a larger playable area with PrBoom+ than with Chocolate-Doom.

If PrBoom+'s compatibility with the system you're running gives you trouble, or you think the sound quality sucks, try the Eternity Engine. It's more compact than PrBoom+, while being quite powerful modding-wise. I personally always run Eternity and almost never PrBoom+. It runs much better on my machines.

There's also the ZDoom bait for you. But I only recommend it for playing wads specifically designed for "ZDoom". The reason is that it's a highly tweaked and optimized version of Doom, that has very many gameplay elements inevitably changed to something else than Doom. I only use ZDoom when I need to. Unfortunately, I only know of ZDoom and other similarly advanced ports that can play Strife. There's however a Chocolate-Strife in development right now; check out a thread in this same forum.

Finally, Doomsday. I've never found it stable enough unfortunately. It's still the best choice around for playing Heretic or Hexen, because it aims for replicating vanilla gameplay as closely as it can.

Old Post 09-07-10 09:32 #
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entryway
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printz said:
There's also the ZDoom bait for you. But I only recommend it for playing wads specifically designed for "ZDoom". The reason is that it's a highly tweaked and optimized version of Doom, that has very many gameplay elements inevitably changed to something else than Doom.


Do you think it is really important for 16 years old guy to know and to have all these bugsquirks of 17 years old engine?


printz said:
Finally, Doomsday. I've never found it stable enough unfortunately. It's still the best choice around for playing Heretic or Hexen, because it aims for replicating vanilla gameplay as closely as it can.

I think 1.8.6 is pretty stable. Also, there is Risen3D which is also stable.

Old Post 09-07-10 09:46 #
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John Smith
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I cant even begin to describe how fucking retarded reading this thread is. It's only slightly better in quality than reading the vaginal spray that issued forth in the recent skulltag thread. printz, thanks for making a useful, contributing post, and thanks to the people at the start of the thread that did too. Every other post here is a steaming pile of steaming feces not fit for flushing down the most rank and rancid of shitcans. Does every fucking thread that even discusses the fact that source ports have differences have to turn into an orgy of forum egos pissing all over each other? Jesus fucking christ. OP asked for some information about source ports, not for all of your half brain celled opinions on why you're the smartest downs child in the tard class. And then he mentioned that he didn't give a shit about your retard fight. And even after that I still see more anal leakage from the festering hole that this thread is. Doomworld, I am disappoint. Me. Think about that for a while shitlets.

Old Post 09-07-10 09:58 #
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As a single-player orientated player I have a number of ports installed: GZDoom, ZDoom, PRBoom+, Chocolate Doom, Eternity, Edge and Risen3D. I have listed them in order of how much I play with them.

As a 'noob' who doesn't necessarily require full vanilla playability (which I never really had as my first exposure to Doom was ADoom on the Amiga!) I tend to use GZDoom. It's easy to install and set up, easy to play extra WADs (drag and drop them onto the GZDoom icon), it has OpenGL graphics with pretty nice lighting, uncapped frame-rates and lots of other modern tweaks (such as fully fleshed out controller support for that 'console' feel!) that makes the game less 'painful' to play in 2010 and it plays most WADs out there. Some WADs require certain features or compatibility so I, therefore, have the other ports installed to allow me to play them.

For the record; I am not a GZDoom zealot, it's just that it does pretty much everything I need to play Doom... :)

It's also fun to have a couple of engines around just to play with them and see each ones idiosyncrasies in action... :)

I also have Skulltag installed for easy multiplayer sessions in the event that I fancy a quick frag-fest. :)

Old Post 09-07-10 10:16 #
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