Most overrated and most underrated doom port?

DoomGater said:

Most underrated: WINDOOM
http://www.doomworld.com/doom4win/

This is the MOST compatible port yet.

LOL. Most compatible with what?

There's not even one download link that works on that page so what's so underrated about this long forgotten thing?

Also, if this is the Windoom I am thinking of it's better be forgotten that it ever existed.

DoomGater said:

Unfortunately, there is NO PATCH and NO WAY to have mouselook under WIN2000 (or newer).

Well, that used to be true a year ago until beetlejoose had nothing better to do.

Doom95 mouse patch for XP available - now

Graf Zahl said:

LOL. Most compatible with what?
There's not even one download link that works on that page so what's so underrated about this long forgotten thing?
Also, if this is the Windoom I am thinking of it's better be forgotten that it ever existed.

Nonsens. Windoom replicates doom behaviour concerning wallrunning and strafejumping better than most other ports.
If you can't find it by yourself, be my guest:

http://doomgate.de/content/files/wd2001.zip

HackNeyed said:

Well, that used to be true a year ago until beetlejoose had nothing better to do.
Doom95 mouse patch for XP available - now

Great news! But I doubt that this will revive Doom'95 (cool rhyme!)

DoomGater said:

Nonsens. Windoom replicates doom behaviour concerning wallrunning and strafejumping better than most other ports.
If you can't find it by yourself, be my guest:

Cough, Chocolate Doom, cough...

Anyway, yes, this is the Windoom I remember. Ugh... High resolution support but no limits were increased. I can't remember how often that thing crashed for me on certain levels with some internal overflows because the original limits were too small.

It's a totally obsolete piece of software.

Despite using Doom95 for the majority of my time playing Doom (Pre-Source ports) I couldn't see any reason for trying to find a way to bring it back. With DOSbox or Chocolate Doom you're looking at a next to perfect version of the original 1.9exe anyway, Doom95 was a buggy windows port.

I do have a sort of nostalgia using it though, but if I could find a wad that replicated the way Doom95 chopped half of the weapon sprites off then I could easily consider Doom95 completely dead and would never look back. Not that I consider it alive now by any means.

I get this strange feeling someone's confusing overrated/underrated with popular.

That pic you showed was my point exactly. Many people over here and in other active Doom forums don't like Doomsday much and express these feelings (-> underrated), but a much bigger, silent, group of casual doomers use and enjoy Doomsday (-> popular).

DoomGater said:

Most underrated: WINDOOM
http://www.doomworld.com/doom4win/

This is the MOST compatible port yet.

It doesn't even play v1.9 demos properly - they desync. Clearly, it's physics and/or monster behavior is different enough to make it anything but compatible. The only thing this port had going for it was its scoring system.

If you don't believe me, please try wallrunning, strafejumping and the backward rocket jump featured in this training pwad
http://doomgate.de/content/files/dgtc/dgtc.zip
with some ports. I managed the backward rocket
jump only with (dos)doom2.exe and windoom.

Please go ahead and try! :-)

Here is a (very low res) vid, which shows, what to do:
http://doomgate.de/content/files/dgtc/dgtc2.avi

I doubt this will be any different than Chocolate Doom or PrBoom on strictest complevel and I'd take those more modern engines any day than some 10 year old and mostly forgotten port. After all those ports were *DESIGNED* to play back demos flawlessly so they can't afford the slightest difference in behavior.

Since this one was already confirmed to desync some demos you can claim as much as you like, nobody here with some technical knowledge will believe you that this old port is more accurate. It may be the same but by plain definition it can't be better than a port that was explicitly designed to replicate vanilla bahavior with 100% accuracy.

Also, wallrunning is a massively overrated feature outside the demo/speedrunning scene so nobody will care anyway.

Underrated: EDGE and Eternity
Overrated: ZDaemon and Chocolate Doom

I chose chocolate doom because even though I use it all the time I always have to use it at something like 640*480 resolution because of a scaling issue!!!!!

DoomGater said:
I managed the backward rocket jump only with (dos)doom2.exe and windoom.

Please go ahead and try! :-)

http://rjy.ath.cx/stuff/dgtcjump.zip - backwards rocket jump recorded with PrBoom-Plus svn r3738 in -complevel 2.

Did I do this right? Practice runs usually took three or four goes, but during recording it went first time...

Graf Zahl said:

Also, wallrunning is a massively overrated feature outside the demo/speedrunning scene so nobody will care anyway.

not particularly windoom's case, but speedrunners don't enjoy wallrunning even half as much as deathmatchers and players of other multiplayer modes. i guess i understand your motive for hating it ("it's a pesky bug and i hate bugs."), but it's a vital part of the way me and many others play doom, so when you say it's overrated, you are losing credibility in my eyes.

I even can't imagine deathmach without wallrunning and strafe50. It's important part of gameplay on map01

Well, good luck playing Deathmatch with such an old port. :D

Graf Zahl said:

(...)It may be the same but by plain definition it can't be better than a port that was explicitly designed to replicate vanilla bahavior with 100% accuracy.

That's completely out of question. The question is, if windoom is underrated and _yes_ I think so. Because next to some highly specialiced, modern source ports, this ancient bag of bytes, has quite high compatibility -concerning player's movement- to the original.
And BTW: only because a port is 'explicitly designed to replicate vanilla bahavior', that does not mean that it does so.

RjY said:

(...)Did I do this right? Practice runs usually took three or four goes, but during recording it went first time...

Perfect! Indeed, I also had success with chocolate doom.
But still no luck with zdoom, gzdoom, doomsday, doom95 and vavoom!
Still have to try boom (easy?!!) and legacy (Yes, the new alpha! :-),
but now I have to leave for the weekend..

This old port is certainly not underrated. All it is is an almost straight port of the released source to Windows with no significant changes to gameplay code. It's just the plain vanilla code recompiled. So obviously most basic features work exactly the same as with the DOS EXE. What you call noteworthy I just call inevitable concerning what this port is about.

DoomGater said:

Perfect! Indeed, I also had success with chocolate doom.
But still no luck with zdoom, gzdoom, doomsday, doom95 and vavoom!

Please feel free to submit bug reports for anything you find that isn't vanilla accurate in Doomsday. One of our primary goals is 100% vanilla accurate gameplay.

Considering that both PrBoom-Plus AND Eternity can record demos which can be played back successfully by Chocolate Doom and by the vanilla game engine itself, this compatibility discussion borders on insulting.

DaniJ said:

Please feel free to submit bug reports for anything you find that isn't vanilla accurate in Doomsday. One of our primary goals is 100% vanilla accurate gameplay.

Some years ago Skyjake or you (can't remember) confirmed, that
doomsday's rocket jump is different than the original, but it does not matter, as long as the original level which require rocketjumping
(E3M6:Mt.Erebus...) are fairly beatable.

It wasn't me. As far as I know DOOM has never supported rocket jumping given the player can't jump to begin with. Are you saying there is a physics discrepancy with rocket explosions?

I don't know what you mean about E3M6. I can honestly say I've never needed to rocket propel my way to victory on this map.

Personally, the only Doom port I tend to play alot nowadays is GZScoredoom, because the scoring bit reminds me quite a lot of Wolfenstein 3D, though the par time mechanics makes you race against the clock.

Other than that, Not much else.

The way the weapon sprite automatically shifts back to the center whilst firing in the Zdooms is horrible. That is just my personal opinion however, I still use both of them. Is there a way to turn that off? :S

DaniJ said:

It wasn't me. As far as I know DOOM has never supported rocket jumping given the player can't jump to begin with. Are you saying there is a physics discrepancy with rocket explosions?

I don't know what you mean about E3M6. I can honestly say I've never needed to rocket propel my way to victory on this map.

Doom features "horizontal rocket jumping". This was the intended way to reach the secret map exit on E3M6 before strafe running and the discovery that one could press the switch through the box walls, and such was discovered.

A fitting name for it would probably be "rocket propelling". Though in Quake terms that move is actually generally called "rocket smashing".

rocket boosting. :p

Before I knew that there was a sprint button in Doom, I thought rocket boosting was the way you get into the building on Doom 2 Map02. I didn't know about the Map01 secret, so I thought you just cheat to get the rocket launcher to proceed.

Phml said:

I get this strange feeling someone's confusing overrated/underrated with popular.

That pic you showed was my point exactly. Many people over here and in other active Doom forums don't like Doomsday much and express these feelings (-> underrated), but a much bigger, silent, group of casual doomers use and enjoy Doomsday (-> popular).

On many of the other places I've read about people playing Doom for the first time in many years, I have lost count of the number of times people recommend Doomsday. I haven't used it much lately but It's nice to know others do.

As for this discussion about compatibility.. lol. I must concur with Quasar, this shit is border-line insulting.

Overrated - Doom
Underrated - Call of Duty