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fraggle
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A few months ago a Javascript source port appeared that allowed you to run Doom in your browser. There's a blog post about it here with a video:

http://hacks.mozilla.org/2011/06/doom-on-the-web/

However, the port was later taken down as a result of a DMCA request by the Zenimax General Counsel:

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Legal/Infr...ces/3_June_2011

Quote "The link below offers an unauthorized derivation or version of Id Software’s DOOM game".

I thought perhaps the source port had the full registered IWAD up for download (which would be a good reason to issue a takedown), but from the title screen in the video it looks like it was definitely the shareware IWAD.

This is obviously a rather disturbing matter for source port authors. There have never been any restrictions in the past on distribution of the shareware IWAD (as far as I know), nor any restrictions on source ports (which would be a more serious matter).
Old Post 07-20-11 21:50 #
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fraggle
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I've already emailed John Carmack about it and he responded that it was the first time he has heard about the issue, but speculated that perhaps the authors were distributing the game media. I'm waiting for him to respond to a follow-up email that I've sent back.
Old Post 07-20-11 21:54 #
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hex11
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fraggle said:

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Legal/Infr...ces/3_June_2011


ZeniMax agent: "Mister Anderson.... What good is a source port if you don't have a WAD?"
Old Post 07-20-11 23:08 #
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Maes
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Well I'll be watching this closely. That surely sucks :-/ But it's not the first time I've seen that the discretion of persecuting over the shareware version (or, on the converse, ignoring even blatant warezing of the commercial IWADs) is apparently out of id's control and into the hands of some random publishers and/or some overly zealous and ignorant corporate attorney. The fact that id seems to wash its hands about the issue doesn't help much, either.
Old Post 07-20-11 23:12 #
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Quasar
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Didn't I say this would happen? Just wait til they start trying to DMCA all the source ports.

EDIT: I am so furious that I am being proactive. Already emailed the attorney, and posted to the site to tell this guy he can definitely put his code up somewhere.

Come on Zenimax, come try and get me.

Last edited by Quasar on 07-21-11 at 04:46
Old Post 07-21-11 04:05 #
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Mechadon
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Yuck, I hope this doesn't get as bad as it could potentially turn out :[
Old Post 07-21-11 06:10 #
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Csonicgo
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*sigh*

zGreat.

zSo, zwhat's zgonna zbe zthe zfirst zport zto zgo?
Old Post 07-21-11 06:18 #
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hex11
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What Doom source code? These are just ice cream recipe programs. We got vanilla, chocolate, strawberry...
Old Post 07-21-11 06:30 #
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Ladna
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So will anyone who used to argue that "Oh Doom is such an old game, no one cares about license infringement or copyright infringement anymore" admit that they were wrong?

Also I agree with everyone, I hope that this doesn't go badly.
Old Post 07-21-11 06:43 #
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Graf Zahl
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Before everybody gets upset, can someone please tell us what precisely this guy did?

It can't have been just a source port. What did he do with the shareware IWAD?
Old Post 07-21-11 06:53 #
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Ladna
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AFAIK, someone used software called Emscripten on the linuxdoom source to convert it from C to JavaScript. This required some changes so it would run using Canvas - and I'm not sure what they did about sound (if anything). They posted it to Mozilla's webhacks website, which is basically a collection of cool HTML5 apps, and they used the shareware IWAD.
Old Post 07-21-11 07:26 #
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DoomCup
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So in other words, Zenimax are just being horrible people.

Man, iD getting bought out was the worst thing to happen to them.
Old Post 07-21-11 08:09 #
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Maes
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Ladna said:
they used the shareware IWAD.


So that means that, in terms of web visibility, the Flash-based "Doom-Heretic-Hexen" triple pack is next.

Of course, there IS a remote chance that said attorney is just a legal functionary who simply didn't know anything about the concept of source ports or the GPL-ed Doom source code, and so he may be acting in good faith (but still wrongfully). The fact that said source port "ran in a browser" made it all the more a #1 "danger" to him. Probably he reasoned something like 'If people can play this IN A BROWSER for FREE, then none will buy the real game! Off with their heads!".

Unfortunately, the burden of proof doesn't lie with him, and especially the Mozilla foundation surely doesn't want to elicit a stronger response by contesting his cease and desist letter.

Perhaps the only one who would give a damn, in this case, is the GNU Free Software Foundation, at least for what regards the source code part. For the IWAD, unless id takes an official and unmistakable stance to the contrary, this is a very dangerous precedent. Sorry, but Carmack saying something like "yeah, sure, no problem, go on and use it" in an email to, dunno, Killough some 12-13 years ago doesn't cut it anymore, not for the pointy-haireds at least.

Edit: as I said, it could also very well be that id doesn't have any control of the IWADs anymore, and that individual agreements with different publishers (e.g. Activision for the infamous Mac versions on Softpedia, Microsoft for XBLA (?), Zenimax for the rest of them (?)) do, in fact, take that control out of id's "elders" for good.

Last edited by Maes on 07-21-11 at 10:50
Old Post 07-21-11 10:30 #
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Ladna
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I hope it's just a misunderstanding. I can't help but think that because Quake Live has been so successful id/Zenimax are worried about native-web versions of their games that don't make them any money. On the other hand it's just so colossally incorrect from a legal standpoint (game's open source, shareware license is clear as day) that if it's not a misunderstanding then I'm not sure what it is. If it's bullying then I can't imagine it would go very far, and would just be an embarrassment for Zenimax.

===

IWAD etc. There's (at least none that I'm aware of) no deal between anyone at id Software and anyone else about IWAD terms of use. id Software released that IWAD as shareware, but I can't find the actual license anywhere (ENDOOM says "DOOM, Knee-Deep in the Dead can be freely redistributed"). So there's no real "precedent" that can be changed or anything. The IWAD's being used under the shareware license agreement... whatever that actually is.

So even if it's not up to id Software at this point, it doesn't really matter.

===

EDIT: Found it. It appears that perhaps Zenimax's claim is that the JS Doom port (like Fraggle quoted) "offers an unauthorized derivation or version of Id Software’s DOOM game". So maybe it's bundling the shareware IWAD with a port that qualifies (in Zenimax's view) as an unauthorized derivation.

Last edited by Ladna on 07-21-11 at 11:49
Old Post 07-21-11 11:42 #
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Graf Zahl
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Ladna said:
...and they used the shareware IWAD.


As expected.

Just to make one thing clear: 'Available free of charge' still doesn't mean 'free to use' so this wasn't about the source at all.
Old Post 07-21-11 11:44 #
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Ladna
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Yeah I would hope it's about the IWAD or bundling it, not about source ports in general. Although honestly, I'm not sure exactly what line could even be drawn here. If bundling it is illegal, what if I host it on my server and provide a link? What if I have an installer automatically fetch it? What if JS Doom magically (oh same origin policy...) fetches the shareware IWAD from id's FTP? The whole thing is kind of absurd.
Old Post 07-21-11 11:54 #
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Maes
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Heh so apparently the pointy-haireds dediced that the time has come to milk that cow, huh? Well that will surely put a nail in the coffin of "stand alone" source ports or those that simply out of pure convenience bundle the shareware IWAD :-/

This means that those ports must now ship "clean" and provide functionality to load an IWAD from somewhere else, even if it's the shareware one. The very least this will be a hard blow for convenience, as, in theory, one will not even be able to host an unpacked shareware IWAD, outside of its original DOS-only DEICE installation package :-/

Unless one of the "big elders of Doom" steps in, this can turn out ugly :-(
Old Post 07-21-11 11:55 #
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Ladna
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There's no way they have a claim against source ports. Maybe they say you can't bundle the shareware IWAD, but source ports aren't going anywhere.
Old Post 07-21-11 12:02 #
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Maes
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Ladna said:
There's no way they have a claim against source ports.


Not by any sane strictly technical definition, considering that we're talking about the GPL version here, but "sane" and "technical" don't mix & match very well with a legal pointy-haired calling the shots at his own whim. For all we know, due to the very broad formulation of that cease & desist letter, he's up against ALL derivative works, not just this one for the precise reason of bundling the shareware IWAD. Nothing in the formulation in that letter indicates such a precise reason.

To me and you, both Doom enthusiasts and involved with source ports, these are precisely distinct concerns that merit being dealt with specifically and fairly. To some pointy-haired corporate attorney that just wants to appear competitive and ruthless to his employers and competition so that he doesn't lose his edge, it's a whole other story. He simply hits EVERYWHERE and HARD, and lets others sort out the pieces (if any are left, at this point).
Old Post 07-21-11 12:30 #
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Ladna
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I mean, I'm not saying that won't happen. I'm saying if it does it would be staggeringly misguided, and would without a doubt fail. Given that, I would be very surprised if Zenimax took action against source ports that weren't bundling the shareware IWAD.

I would also be surprised if this were just one attorney or even his department acting independently from Zenimax. It's possible Zenimax wasn't even aware Doom was released as shareware, and sent this notice uninformed though they were.
Old Post 07-21-11 13:10 #
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Maes
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Could be. In Greece, such situations are called "having to prove that you are not an elephant".
Old Post 07-21-11 13:12 #
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Ladna
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Haha. In the US, they're called "having to prove you're not born in Africa".
Old Post 07-21-11 13:14 #
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GreyGhost
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Come the revolution, first order of business is to shoot all the lawyers. This is a ridiculous turn of events.
Old Post 07-21-11 13:50 #
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finnw
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I can't see source ports being in any danger, except maybe those that accept the -file option with the shareware IWAD.

One could also argue that ports that change the game too much (e.g. altered physics) should not accept DOOM1.WAD at all, since the result is always a modified game.
Old Post 07-21-11 14:31 #
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Quasar
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I would argue that this is completely ridiculous and that the existence of restrictions such as this is a serious danger to all of us.

I hope that Carmack is actually doing something and pulling some strings to set this right. Otherwise he will have demonstrated, IMO, that his commitment to the open-source community is shallow indeed.

He should consider what it might have been like if, had the DMCA existed in 1993, some batshit insane company had tried to use it to stop the original release of DOOM Shareware to the internet with some equally frivolous claim.

DMCA is anti-competitive, anti-innovation, anti-free-software. By selling id Software to a company willing to throw it around like confetti, they instantly put us all at risk of litigation at any time. There is no burden of proof with the DMCA. You just issue a takedown notice and the shit goes offline - it doesn't have to happen for a legally valid reason. And if you fight it, court time.
Old Post 07-21-11 14:41 #
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D_GARG
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thats when you rise and give them the finger, and unite for protest.
Do it anyway you like, youre not much more wrong than the one you decide to spit in the face.

free ware is a critically vital thing for development, and development is Everything
Old Post 07-21-11 15:06 #
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finnw
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D_GARG said:
free ware is a critically vital thing for development, and development is Everything

But DOOM1.WAD has never been freeware (unlike linuxdoom, freedoom.wad and their derivatives.)
Old Post 07-21-11 15:21 #
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Quasar
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finnw said:

But DOOM1.WAD has never been freeware (unlike linuxdoom, freedoom.wad and their derivatives.)

But it IS available from hundreds of sites on the internet, so taking down one site that is offering the ability to play it is just stupid. How is what it offers any different from the ability to download the shareware version, install it, and THEN play it, aside from being a lot more convenient?

I think they're scared because it's a new technology and they got beaten to the punch at it by a hobbyist, and they probably are so ignorant of the past of the company they bought that they don't even know the difference between the shareware and registered versions to begin with. Or really care. This isn't about copyright, it's about suppressing potential competition for whatever plans they have for putting games online themselves.
Old Post 07-21-11 16:00 #
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Maes
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Quasar said:
How is what it offers any different from the ability to download the shareware version, install it, and THEN play it, aside from being a lot more convenient?


For an complete answer to that, thou musteth call forth the powers of our resident mod, legalese jargonist and sophist philosopher, myk :-p As someone who actually found counter-arguments to the e.g. convenient repackaging of a brain-dead mod like OTTAWA11, I'm sure he'd come up with a plausible explanation for this one, too. What's more scary, he'd probably get it 100% right, too.

Quasar said:
This isn't about copyright, it's about suppressing potential competition for whatever plans they have for putting games online themselves.


Perhaps because Doom 4 is around the corner they are doing a bit of "preemptive maintenance" around. Has there been a similar precedent before the release of Doom 3? Maybe they are blindly attacking anything with the "Doom" logo on it that some whatever reason isn't answerable to them. And, let's not forget, not all game companies or publishers were always so friendly towards data-compatible recreations of their games, and I see no reason why the "regime" behind a particular title could not change, at some point if time.

E.g. if Lucasarts gets bought by an aggressive publisher which decides that former-LA games must be SOLD and ONLY SOLD through e.g. the Virtual Console and ONLY through their approved technology, then the legality of e.g. the ScummVM may suddenly drop to zero overnight.

Or, consider Stratagus, a functional, open-source clone of the Warcraft II and Starcraft engines, which got an actual cease & desist letter from Blizzard themselves.

Now that I think of it, there's nothing preventing Zenimax from declaring that They, and only They, hold the Almighty Right to use IWAD Data through their Officially Sanctioned Exes, and that "source ports" are the work of commie freeloading devils.

Last edited by Maes on 07-21-11 at 16:53
Old Post 07-21-11 16:41 #
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hex11
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finnw said:
I can't see source ports being in any danger, except maybe those that accept the -file option with the shareware IWAD.


-file in shareware is fairly useless, because of missing IWAD textures, etc. Is there even any PWAD that can be played that way?

But ultimately these highly visible web projects would do well to bundle a vanilla version of Freedoom instead. I think it's just some of the Boom-ish maps that would need to be replaced.
Old Post 07-21-11 16:59 #
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