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killer2
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Another weird thing about ZDoom that I always to ask about...why do the songs of the IWAD's feel so...different? Is it just because of transposing them from low res to high res, or have they been changed for some other reason? This is really noticeable on TNT's map02 for instance. The music sounds nothing like the original one. Also in the opening music of Doom 2. The musics used to have a much "stronger" feel, and I can't help but feel they are somewhat washed out. Does anyone know why this is, and can someone recommend a port that has music closer to the originals (preferably an OGL mod)?

Old Post 12-10-11 08:45 #
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tempun
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killer2 said:
This is really noticeable on TNT's map02 for instance. The music sounds nothing like the original one.
It's buggy.

killer2 said:
Also in the opening music of Doom 2.
Has special OPL version.

killer2 said:
The musics used to have a much "stronger" feel, and I can't help but feel they are somewhat washed out. Does anyone know why this is, and can someone recommend a port that has music closer to the originals (preferably an OGL mod)?
I think ZDoom offers OPL emulation.

Old Post 12-10-11 09:17 #
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Gez
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First, get an SVN build of ZDoom. There's a bug with TNT's map 2 music that has been fixed recently. (A volume instruction overflowed. MIDI expects a certain value to be on 7-bit, up to 127, but here in the MUS it is 128 so if simply transfered the 8th bit is stripped and it becomes 0... Now it makes sure it changes to 127 instead.)

ZDoom offers a lot of variety for how MIDI are played.
http://zdoom.org/wiki/Software_synthesizer


Also, it's Doom/Ultimate Doom that has a special Adlib version of the intro (D_INTRO/D_INTROA). Doom II doesn't.

Old Post 12-10-11 09:27 #
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killer2
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tempun said:
I think ZDoom offers OPL emulation.

Well, how do I activate it then?

Old Post 12-10-11 10:50 #
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Maes
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tempun said:
It's buggy.Has special OPL version.I think ZDoom offers OPL emulation.


Great, now he will be added to the long list of people complaining "but it doesn't sound like a REAL OPL". Well done.

Old Post 12-10-11 12:58 #
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Gez
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killer2 said:
Well, how do I activate it then?


Read my post.

Follow the link that I posted in my post.

Read the content behind that link that I posted in my post.

Old Post 12-10-11 13:17 #
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killer2
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Well it says about the OPL-emulator, but it doesn't tell you how to activate it...
EDIT:Nvm, found it. Thanks a LOT Gez, I really appreciate your help, at last I can hear the music as I liked it!

Old Post 12-10-11 14:07 #
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Super Jamie
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This is why all ports need OPL emulation.

Old Post 12-16-11 08:22 #
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Porsche Monty
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The current approach that Doom source port developers have taken regarding OPL emulation is rather relaxed, maybe because most players don't care for it.

It's said that the emulated OPL is pretty much the same (if not exactly the same) as the original at software level, so that's unlikely to be the problem here.

Then we have each source port's particular implementation of the OPL emulator which are in fact, flawed to varying degrees. This results in notes being omitted, played incorrectly, etc.

However, what I consider to be the real problem is "authenticity" (or lack thereof) due to nonexistent DAC/filter emulation. Without it, you're left with that horribly FLAT sound.

Maybe it would be a good idea to consider expanding OPL emulation in that direction.

Vibra16's filtering, now that would be amazing.

Old Post 12-29-11 03:09 #
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Super Jamie
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Maybe the lack of interest is due to ignorance of the feature, as is the case with this thread :)

Most OPL implementations are "good enough", they certainly sound better than original hardware does these days, finding one with the right software license seems to be the major issue.

Old Post 12-29-11 09:25 #
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Quasar
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I wonder what OPL would sound like if we sent it through Eternity's 3-band EQ...

Old Post 12-29-11 11:00 #
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printz
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Quasar said:
I wonder what OPL would sound like if we sent it through Eternity's 3-band EQ...
...Experimental SVN branch?

Old Post 12-29-11 11:55 #
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natt
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Porsche Monty said:
The current approach that Doom source port developers have taken regarding OPL emulation is rather relaxed, maybe because most players don't care for it.

It's said that the emulated OPL is pretty much the same (if not exactly the same) as the original at software level, so that's unlikely to be the problem here.

Then we have each source port's particular implementation of the OPL emulator which are in fact, flawed to varying degrees. This results in notes being omitted, played incorrectly, etc.

However, what I consider to be the real problem is "authenticity" (or lack thereof) due to nonexistent DAC/filter emulation. Without it, you're left with that horribly FLAT sound.

Maybe it would be a good idea to consider expanding OPL emulation in that direction.

Vibra16's filtering, now that would be amazing.



I don't have a horrible ear or anything, but the problem for me is, if I listen to OPL emu playback and I hear something that doesn't sound "right", is it:

a) Bad memory (I last played vanilla on an OPL in 1998 or so)
b) Problem in the OPL emulator itself (which is an opaque black box as far as I'm concerned, lotsa code there)
c) Problem in Chocolate OPL Driver code
d) Inherent OPL limitations (in particular, 9 voices with some instruments taking up 2 voices each means that even a perfect setup can have massive dropout compared to a general midi synth which has 24 or more voices)

With all of those possibilities, and the basic design problem that the OPL emulation is not trying to be "right", it's trying to be "wrong like vanilla", I don't even know where I'd start to fix things. And as far as this filtering you're talking about, I bet it varied widely from sound card to sound card. Add in the horrible frequency response of early 90s desktop computer speakers, and everyone is going to have their own idea of how OPL should sound.

So the end result is that prboom-plus OPL sounds exactly like chocolate doom OPL. Well, at least I fixed the tempo bugs.

Old Post 12-29-11 17:23 #
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Csonicgo


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Super Jamie said:
Maybe the lack of interest is due to ignorance of the feature, as is the case with this thread :)

Most OPL implementations are "good enough", they certainly sound better than original hardware does these days, finding one with the right software license seems to be the major issue.



I doubt that they sound better, they make a lot of sounds more harsh than intended. I posted a video about this very thing a while back: the filter really does need to be emulated if you want a sound that doesn't sound completely digital.

Old Post 12-30-11 06:18 #
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Super Jamie
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You have an absolutely amazing sounding SB16. The last one I tried was fuzzy as shit, probably due to the age and cheapness of components in the pre-amp. It was like listening to myself playing Doom over the telephone.

Give me a little while and I'll try this with a more modern PCI genuine Yamaha card.

Old Post 12-30-11 09:11 #
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killer2
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Csonicgo said:

video


The OPL emulation in your video is much worse than ZDoom's.
EDIT:Actually I think it isn't...but still, I like it better.

Old Post 12-30-11 09:42 #
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Graf Zahl
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Csonicgo said:


I doubt that they sound better, they make a lot of sounds more harsh than intended. I posted a video about this very thing a while back: the filter really does need to be emulated if you want a sound that doesn't sound completely digital.





That quite matches my impression. Although I don't have such an old sound card anymore I still have a CD recording of my favorite tracks and it sounds a lot better than all OPL emulators I tested.

In the end I stick with higher quality recordings though. OPL - even on good hardware - still loses too much.

The worst I can remember is MAP28 where on my hardware several voices were completely missing. The first time I was able to listen to that track in its completeness was with the old MP2 recordings that were available here once.

Old Post 12-30-11 09:51 #
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Super Jamie
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I also use LogicDeLuxe's HQ recordings from his stereo OPL3 Maestro card for playing IWAD levels, but obviously this isn't possible when a PWAD has its own music.

Old Post 12-30-11 10:07 #
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HavoX
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Graf Zahl said:
The worst I can remember is MAP28 where on my hardware several voices were completely missing.
You're not alone. I've heard that soundtrack on [G]ZDoom's OPL emulation, and it doesn't perfectly emulate the D_TENSE that I remember and loved that good. I can't blame you for that though because I know it isn't your fault (or Randy's, for that matter).

Last edited by HavoX on 12-30-11 at 16:40

Old Post 12-30-11 16:16 #
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