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[PROTOTYPE]

ZDoom vs Legacy: Make your choice.

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I'm just curious what people think at the actual stage of development.Post your opinion below.

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Everyone is going to say ZDoom. I've got a soft spot for Legacy and even I have to concede ZDoom is the better port overall.

What I will say for Legacy is that it's the only port that has split screen multiplayer as far as I know and for that alone it's worth having on your hard drive.

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Legacy was the first port I ever used.

Eventually, I began using ZDoom, before switching to GZDoom.

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Legacy was my first port, too. The rendering gimmicks were cool as fuck at he time. Now it's a rotten mess of a source port. I've pretty much ZDoom exclusive at this point.

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I've got a bad impression about Legacy. When I downloaded it, it was from a website where the two Belgian developers were talking about how their port is the shit because it's EXCELLENT for multiplayer blah blah blah. I play Doom for the monsters. Meanwhile, among mapping features, it boasted a hackish deep water effect that used the negative sector tag and that only worked in GL mode, limited Boom support, mere vanilla DEH support.

Sounds were buggy, despite the authors talking about the FANTASTIC Allegro library blah blah blah.

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Different source ports, different goals, and I don't really feel like I need to make a choice here.

Anyways, Doom Legacy comprises both the software renderer AND the hardware renderer, so it would be more appropriate to have a "GZDoom vs Legacy" instead.

Doom Legacy was pretty much unusable last time I tried it and GZDoom worked just great. I guess GZDoom still gets a lot more attention from developers than Legacy does.

Then we have the "why use Legacy when you have GZDoom?" argument, but truth is, GZDoom still can't handle some of Legacy's most fucked up map trickery, and it's also missing coronae and proper alpha blending for textures. If I wanted to get really picky, then I could argue that Legacy's lighting is much faster (and it is) compared to GZDoom's, but I guess this is because GZDoom may be doing lighting more accurately among other things?

As far as the software renderer is concerned, Legacy still gives ZDoom a run for it's money on the 3d floor department, but there could be room for improvement.

GZDoom is about this close to making Legacy completely irrelevant.

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Legacy is on life support thanks to the efforts of Wesley Johnson. Without him, it'd be totally dead.

While I am not interested in ever using Legacy, I kinda like that there's one person passionate enough to maintain it despite the harshness of the task. Diversity's good.

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Choices have been made,dices have been thrown.Results went out the way I anticipated.Thanks a lot for all the feedback!Also,is it true Legacy has true ROR capability?That'd be something...

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[PROTOTYPE] said:
Also,is it true Legacy has true ROR capability?That'd be something...

I don't think it does, unfortunately...

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phi108 said:

Legacy has ROR, and ZDoom now has it too in the svn versions.

Really? I must be way behind or something... X|

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HavoX said:

Really? I must be way behind or something... X|

Yeah,well,3D floors was one of tge few reedeeming features of Legacy.That is,until ZDoom replicated it.Now all it's got left is the splitscreen.Other than that it's junk.Not even the OpenGL in it works right.Meh.

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HavoX said:

Legacy was the first port I ever used.

Eventually, I began using ZDoom, before switching to GZDoom.



same here. i used to play legacy DM on a home LAN about 1998-2001 almost daily, and man was this port advanced and fun back then. i still have a few demos recorded with v1.25 or 1.28 that needs dosbox to run, where a friend ragequit repeatedly, i always wanted to make a video out of them but always found other things to do ;)

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I really wish they could implement Legacy's splitscreen feature on Zdoom, since, unlike Skulltag, Zdoom doesn't have client-server connection and it's multiplayer sucks. I really enjoyed playing the Splitscreen with Legacy back in the day, but, on every other point, Zdoom/GZDoom pwns Legacy in any form.

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Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

I really wish they could implement Legacy's splitscreen feature on Zdoom

Not. gonna. happen.

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I remember a time back in ~1998-99 when Doom Legacy was incredible. It showed some of the things that were possible now that the Doom source code had been released.

Unfortunately it was always rather buggy and poorly implemented. Over time those problems seem to have compounded rather than got better. A few loyalists seem to have stuck with it, including a few programmers who have tried to fix it up. Wesley is really just the latest in a long line of them. In the end they all seem to eventually give up, and from what I've heard about the codebase, I'm not surprised.

My honest opinion is that I don't think it's worth bothering with any more. Describing Wesley's efforts as "life support" is, in my opinion, sadly accurate. If he wants to continue to spend his time work on it, that's his choice and his right, of course, but I personally think it would be far more sensible to give it a proper dignified burial and move on.

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What a touching moment!What fraggle said is the best post-mortem possible!R.I.P. Legacy.

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I will not be making any friends after this comment, but to be brutally honest, I'd love to see one last stable Legacy build before he's done with it. So many good memories using this port.

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Porsche Monty said:

I will not be making any friends after this comment, but to be brutally honest, I'd love to see one last stable Legacy build before he's done with it. So many good memories using this port.

Stable Legacy?In 2012?Keep dreaming.They disemboweled Legacy.It's worthless.Oh,and btw i'll add you to my buddy list,just to prove you you're wrong.You should too ... ;)

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Gez said:

Not. gonna. happen.

Why? And are you saying that because YOU don't want it, or because you're unhappy the devs don't want it?

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printz said:

Why? And are you saying that because YOU don't want it, or because you're unhappy the devs don't want it?


Neither.

I personally don't care about split screen at all, it could be in or out without affecting me; but from what I know of the ZDoom code and the Doom code it is based on, supporting multiple players in a single instance of the program is a lot more complicated than supporting multiplayer spread across several instances communicating with each others.

For a start, grep through the code for "consoleplayer". You'll get 61 hits in vanilla Doom alone. Each indicate something you'll have to rewrite if you want to have several players on the same console.

Splitscreen has been suggested a few times on ZDoom, and has been instanoed every time.

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I like & use ZDoom more, but doesn't Legacy give you the ability to have 3D guns, monsters etc., or is that a different source port?

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Split-screen was an interesting feature 10 years ago, and it seems to be a feature that no other source port has replicated - or perhaps that should be bothered to replicate. Nowadays I have to question how useful it really is. In this age where you can get a netbook for $300 with built-in wifi, why would anyone choose to play split screen on a single computer rather than just setting up a normal network game?

Porsche Monty said:

I will not be making any friends after this comment, but to be brutally honest, I'd love to see one last stable Legacy build before he's done with it. So many good memories using this port.

Oh, absolutely. If Wesley wants to continue his work and genuinely enjoys it, more power to him. But in the grand scheme of all things Doom, I think it's a port that has had its day, and at this point is ultimately a dead end.

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NitroactiveStudios said:

I like & use ZDoom more, but doesn't Legacy give you the ability to have 3D guns, monsters etc., or is that a different source port?

Who cares?At the current state,it's code is screwed.It's an unstable application.Not to mention ZDoom 2.5.0 has 3D floors and all this fancy stuff.Who wants to use Legacy,will use just because they are attached to it,not because it's better.

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NitroactiveStudios said:

I like & use ZDoom more, but doesn't Legacy give you the ability to have 3D guns, monsters etc., or is that a different source port?


Doomsday has support for 3D models, and there's a pack out there that has all of the Doom enemies, items and weapons as 3D models.

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Darkman 4 said:

Doomsday has support for 3D models, and there's a pack out there that has all of the Doom enemies, items and weapons as 3D models.

OK I understand.

Also, Legacy is the only source port for Doom that I heard of that can actually do splitscreen.

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