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Doom Marine
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Friends and I want to start a co-op campaign. Been out of the source port loop for awhile. Looking for a good co-op experience without frills, and as low ping as possible. What has everyone been co-oping on?

Old Post 06-17-12 05:49 #
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sgt dopey
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Skulltag/Zandronum, and Odamex would be your best choices

Old Post 06-17-12 05:52 #
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Phml
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Skulltag/Zandronum


Has there been improvements on that front lately? A mere one year ago I remember the latency still felt pretty obvious at times, even when you're pinging at 60ms.

Perhaps I'm spoiled by modern co-op games where even a 150ms ping doesn't affect the game experience too negatively - i.e. everything looks and plays as normal, your aim is just slightly delayed, as opposed to Skulltag where you get awkward bumps or wobbles against monsters and architecture, and sometimes even get pulled back.

For that matter, I mention Skulltag but I haven't tried any other port to know if they're any better.

Old Post 06-17-12 10:10 #
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Porsche Monty
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Chocolate Doom's multiplayer capabilities are actually pretty solid, but I've only been able to test them with a couple lpb's from my area.

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Old Post 06-17-12 10:42 #
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jongo
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I'm having 150-200 ping usually and in Skulltag the lag isn't noticeable at all mostly (dodging projectiles is easy and comfortable, feels like playing offline). Similar situation with Zdaemon, but the lag is more present there. I've heard from few people that it's opposite for them, so it could depend on connection.

Old Post 06-17-12 12:00 #
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Memfis
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Yeah, for me ZDaemon feels much less laggy. It also doesn't have unreadable colored nicknames, annoying queue system in survival, telefragfests on start, unnecessary "prepare to fight" stage and some other things that I can't think of right now, so I like it much more than Skulltag.

Old Post 06-17-12 12:41 #
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Phml
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jongo said:
I'm having 150-200 ping usually and in Skulltag the lag isn't noticeable at all mostly (dodging projectiles is easy and comfortable, feels like playing offline). Similar situation with Zdaemon, but the lag is more present there. I've heard from few people that it's opposite for them, so it could depend on connection.


Hmm. This got me thinking, so I tried it again, picked a 50ms server and at first thought it looked better, but then I got this wobble effect again while shooting and ducking behind a corner against those shotgunners in Plutonia map01.

...Then, I went and picked the same map, doing the same steps in GZDoom and, the effect is also there, although not as significant. So it's probably my own issues with the way ZDoom handles camera/POV amplified by lag rather than anything else.

Old Post 06-17-12 12:59 #
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j4rio
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Isn't there prboom+ multiplayer of some sort? There is some prboom-plus_server file thingy along with it, so I'm wondering.

Old Post 06-17-12 13:06 #
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darkreaver
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Dunno about playing over the internet, but on LANs you can just set up a game and have players connect via your IP. But I guess you already knew that :P

Old Post 06-17-12 18:16 #
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Nomad
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Has ZDaemon even been updated in the last 10 years? Last time I used it was probably 5/6 years ago and it hadn't been worked on in quite some time before that.

Old Post 06-17-12 18:42 #
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Memfis
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ZDaemon development is quite active nowadays: http://zdaemon.org/?CMD=news_general

Old Post 06-17-12 19:10 #
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Xaser
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Doom Marine said:
Friends and I want to start a co-op campaign. Been out of the source port loop for awhile. Looking for a good co-op experience without frills, and as low ping as possible. What has everyone been co-oping on?

No frills, you say? Odamex, I say! It's pretty sharp and seems like it's right up your alley.

Old Post 06-17-12 19:14 #
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40oz
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Odamex? Not to say that I don't love odamex but admittedly I'm pretty sure skulltag and Zdaemon are much better to fight monsters on. Odamex tends to let monsters throw fireballs without even animating (much worse with archviles and revenants), or be in places where they don't look where they are, and have sprites of dying players and projectiles sitting stagnant for some reason in poor connections.

I'm sure Odamex will rise to the top eventually given how things are looking for it so far, but at the moment it's not ideal.

Old Post 06-17-12 23:19 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Yeah, I'd definitely recommend ZDaemon over Odamex for co-op.

Old Post 06-17-12 23:29 #
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DuckReconMajor
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Another vote here for ZDaemon.

Old Post 06-17-12 23:45 #
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mandax
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I play all 3 online ports and I can safely say that ZDaemon delivers the best coop experience.

Old Post 06-18-12 00:47 #
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Chu
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If you're ever interested in offline local Coop, 3DGE has splitscreen support, though the controller setup is awkward right now. Something I have to get around to doing is releasing the updated build with 2nd player joypad support.

One day this port will have true online capability.

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Old Post 06-18-12 08:14 #
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kristus
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Phml said:
Has there been improvements on that front lately? A mere one year ago I remember the latency still felt pretty obvious at times, even when you're pinging at 60ms.

60ms is a shitload of lag.

Old Post 06-18-12 18:33 #
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tempun
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kristus said:
60ms is a shitload of lag.
Earth is too big. Sorry.

Old Post 06-18-12 19:09 #
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wesleyjohnson
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DoomLegacy has special coop support.
Can handle voodoo damage operated traps in coop (Don't know of any other port than does); see ic2005.wad (electric arc death doors).
Uses SDL, Linux is best choice, some problems that we cannot reproduce are reported for Windows.
Do not know the ping, have not been able to test.

See http://home.comcast.net/~mrrocket/d...omconnector.htm
for Doom internet play, using DoomLegacy, Skulltag, GZDoom, ZDaemon, ZDoom, etc.

I have played coop using split screen.
It is not the lowest frills port.

3D floor deathmatch, and coop play levels available (see DoomLegacy home page http://doomlegacy.sourceforge.net ).

FreeDoom MAP09 and MAP13 were written with coop play in mind (Boom).

Last edited by wesleyjohnson on 06-18-12 at 19:39

Old Post 06-18-12 19:12 #
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Phml
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kristus said:

60ms is a shitload of lag.



I'm guessing your angle is "oh, I'm going to say 60ms is crap so people can be impressed at my high standards defined by my extremely high level of play". Which can sort of works if you're talking about PvP (and if your audience is compromised of gullible 15 years old, an estimation I'm not sure is representative of Doomworld, but YMMV and all that).

However, within the context of co-op, complaining about 60ms is something only terrible players would do, barring poorly programmed games. This sort of ping is more or less standard for consumer-level connections playing within the same country. Add a few more hoops and it's not rare to see pings in the 100-150ms range. That's the real standard, for most games and most people. To claim otherwise is just silly, and any co-op game not functioning properly at ~120ms despite being designed to be played over the Internet is as good as broken.

Old Post 06-18-12 21:32 #
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dew
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zdaemon 1.09 is surely the best experience for c/s coop, hands down. smoothness, decent doom accuracy and good lag compensation thanks to intensive catering to the TNS sessions. the downside is fairly brutal though - 1.09 is still in beta and binaries aren't available to the public. you can only play what's on the masterlist or if someone with the beta server creates one for you. 1.08 is a disaster.

skull...zandronum is quite fine, but there's a lot of "nondoom" little stuff to constantly remind you you're not playing doom. it's certainly better than zd 1.08 and some people probably prefer it over 1.09, but the latter has seriously overtaken the lead in the race.

odamex can play vanilla demos and that's about as far as i'd go regarding coop. :) they're currently focusing on ironing out the player netcode, coop is a secondary goal for times to come.

and don't touch prboom+ coop. i tried it with graim once (50km distance) and it was really bad. i remember even entryway saying the netcode isn't optimized at all. we couldn't even fix broken mouse behaviour in net games.

Old Post 06-18-12 21:38 #
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Doom Marine
took his ball and went home


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I remember trying PrBoom's co-op online several years ago, and it was awful. The non-host player cannot even move correctly due to the massive latency.

I'm tilting towards whatever has the best netcode. If you can't move and shoot right, under normal internet latency like 100ms ping, then it's not worth playing. As long as the netcode is good, everything else is a distant second priority.

Old Post 06-19-12 08:56 #
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GhostlyDeath
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Doom Marine said:
I remember trying PrBoom's co-op online several years ago, and it was awful. The non-host player cannot even move correctly due to the massive latency.


After awhile you could get used to ice skating though. However, both server and client should be affected by the delay.

Old Post 06-19-12 10:49 #
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BilboHicks
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ScoreDoomST is based on Skulltag, and is worth checking out if you want to play some competitive co-op with Doom, with arcade-style points scoring.
Points system description: http://scoredoom.com/gameplay-concept.html

Old Post 06-19-12 18:43 #
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Mike.Reiner
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Heh ice skating.. remembers me of Doom Legacy.. way back in the day.

Skulltag plays alright, I haven't tried ZDaemon for coop in years.

Old Post 06-20-12 02:07 #
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TIHan
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Does anyone have any suggestions that can make Zandronum's coop experience better?

I've been working on a few branches that will address bandwidth and lag compensation. We are also working on a few sync issues. Is there anything gameplay related that could be improved?

Old Post 06-20-12 02:25 #
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