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killer2
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I can't seem to find the option that toggles the openGL and software modes in Gzdoom. Am I missing it or was it removed in newer versions?

Old Post 08-25-12 20:42 #
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Eris Falling
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killer2 said:
I can't seem to find the option that toggles the openGL and software modes in Gzdoom. Am I missing it or was it removed in newer versions?


Haven't used GZDoom in a while but have you checked Display Options?

Old Post 08-25-12 20:44 #
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killer2
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Yeah, nothing useful there.

Old Post 08-25-12 20:58 #
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Eris Falling
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and there's nothing about OpenGL Renderer on main options menu?

Old Post 08-25-12 20:59 #
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phi108
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It's not in the menu now, there is a console command: Vid_renderer 0, that does it.

Old Post 08-25-12 21:02 #
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killer2
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Not really. There are some OGL options under "Display Options", but nothing that could help me to switch to software.

Old Post 08-25-12 21:02 #
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Chu
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Um, someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't GZDoom OpenGL-only?

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Old Post 08-25-12 21:14 #
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Eris Falling
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Chu said:
Um, someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't GZDoom OpenGL-only?


It's basically ZDoom, but with the option of using OpenGL rendering.

Old Post 08-25-12 21:18 #
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Chu
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Eris Falling said:


It's basically ZDoom, but with the option of using OpenGL rendering.


Yeah, I knew that, but I didn't know GZ had an option of turning GL rendering off. Interesting, though i'd never use it. I guess I'm part of the small percentage of DOOMers that prefers GL over Software. **

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Old Post 08-25-12 21:19 #
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Eris Falling
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Chu said:

Yeah, I knew that, but I didn't know GZ had an option of turning GL rendering off. Interesting, though i'd never use it. I guess I'm part of the small percentage of DOOMers that prefers GL over Software. **



I personally couldn't see the difference when I had it :/

Old Post 08-25-12 21:22 #
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killer2
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phi108 said:
It's not in the menu now, there is a console command: Vid_renderer 0, that does it.


Thanks Phi, that did the trick. Still don't understand how the hell is the average user supposed to know that though.

Old Post 08-25-12 22:02 #
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Graf Zahl
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It can't be done reliably from the menu, that's why the option was removed.

I didn't bother because the software mode is just plain ZDoom with no added features.

Old Post 08-25-12 22:12 #
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Gez
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It used to be available from the menu, but even then, you still had to quit and restart GZDoom to change renderer. You definitely cannot toggle between OpenGL and software "on the fly".


killer2 said:
Still don't understand how the hell is the average user supposed to know that though.

With the ZDoom wiki.

Old Post 08-25-12 22:16 #
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killer2
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Gez said:
It used to be available from the menu, but even then, you still had to quit and restart GZDoom to change renderer.


I know that. I don't really get why it was removed, it was a pretty useful feature (even if you had to restart). It's not like remembering a command and then restarting it is any easier anyway.

Old Post 08-25-12 23:52 #
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schwerpunk
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It sure took me a long enough time to find it, even if I got creative with my search queries. Still, nice that it exists.

It's probably my most inputted command. I use GZDoom for testing of Doom Builder maps: Typically, I run through once in software, then again in hardware, to make sure the maps looks alright like that as well.

Does anyone know if OpenGL mode is 'true' (or 'truer') colour than software mode? Because I've noticed green-lit sectors look very pale in software, but vibrant as all Hell in OpenGL. Actually, all of the colours look a lot more vibrant for me in OpenGL.

It's 100% the only reason I play like that sometimes, even if you don't get that nice contrast fading effect like you do in software mode.

Old Post 08-26-12 05:35 #
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andrewj
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Gez said:
You definitely cannot toggle between OpenGL and software "on the fly".

Half Life 1 could do it.

Old Post 08-26-12 09:11 #
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entryway
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andrewj said:
Half Life 1 could do it.

prboom-plus can do it

Old Post 08-26-12 09:15 #
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printz
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Graf Zahl said:
It can't be done reliably from the menu, that's why the option was removed.
Will you also remove the entire feature, or are there things independent of the software part that are still not GPL?

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Old Post 08-26-12 09:42 #
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Graf Zahl
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entryway said:

prboom-plus can do it



GZDoom could do it once, too. But then Randy made some changes for the startup screen and after that it was no longer possible to switch between GL and software. I was planning to fix that but now that the software renderer uses D3D I don't think it'll ever work again.




printz said:
Will you also remove the entire feature, or are there things independent of the software part that are still not GPL?



Yes, the sound code. It depends on FMod and therefore can't be GPL.
I have no plans to remove the software renderer for the foreseeable future. Doing so would make updating the source from ZDoom a lot harder.

Old Post 08-26-12 12:46 #
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DaniJ
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Why is the software renderer using D3D? That seems rather counter productive, given ZDoom targets multiple platforms and operating systems it would surely make more sense to do 2D in OpenGL, no?

Old Post 08-26-12 13:35 #
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Graf Zahl
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The whole thing just started as a means to circumvent the paletted display mode in Windows.

All the 2D enhancements were an afterthought and added long after this was already working.

Old Post 08-26-12 13:58 #
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printz
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Graf Zahl said:

I didn't bother because the software mode is just plain ZDoom with no added features.

I guess that FraggleScript is still available, even if it runs in software mode? Or has it been merged into ZDoom as well?

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Old Post 08-30-12 19:23 #
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Graf Zahl
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Yes, it has. Now that software supports 3D floors it's useful to play Nimrod or Hi-Tech Hell 2.

Old Post 08-30-12 22:43 #
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AlexMax
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DaniJ said:
Why is the software renderer using D3D? That seems rather counter productive, given ZDoom targets multiple platforms and operating systems it would surely make more sense to do 2D in OpenGL, no?


Multiplatform targeting is already handled through SDL. As long as the Windows bits are well supported, removing them and switching to 100% SDL throughout has no advantages except introducing ZDoom to the wonderful world of SDL quirks that other ports have had to deal with for years.

Old Post 08-30-12 23:11 #
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DaniJ
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SDL isn't the only multiplatform abstraction layer. We switched to Qt in Doomsday and haven't looked back...

Old Post 08-30-12 23:13 #
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Graf Zahl
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Qt is a tremendous amount of bloat, considering what little parts you need from it for a Doom port. No, thank you.

Old Post 08-31-12 00:12 #
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DaniJ
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I think you are under the misconception that you are forced to use it all. Even so, I really couldn't care less if my Doomsday install is 20MB* larger in additional libraries given the quality of the tools Qt adds to my toolbox.

Switching from SDL to Qt was definitely the right choice for us given the scale of modern Doomsday and where it is headed.

* I just checked - its not even that, we only use about 10MB of it in release builds.

Last edited by DaniJ on 08-31-12 at 01:22

Old Post 08-31-12 01:08 #
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Graf Zahl
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For you it may be no issue - but with ZDoom it would be more than 3x the size of the actual game engine - and again: for no benefit whatsoever. It currently works and replacing the underlying low level code would be a costly operation.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Old Post 08-31-12 07:45 #
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DaniJ
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I wasn't aiming/trying to persuade you to use Qt. Rather, I was merely pointing out that SDL is far from the only multiplatform abstraction layer and there is no reason why DOOM ports should continue putting up with it.

Although, GZDoom arguably is "broken" because the user is no longer able to change renderer at runtime - i.e., the reason for this thread. Switching to an OpenGL backend in ZDoom would allow you to resolve that. The lack of decent multiplatform abstraction layer being cited as a roadblock - I suggested a good one.

Old Post 08-31-12 08:10 #
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Graf Zahl
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Lack of an abstraction layer is not the problem.

The real problem is that the D3D code comes from ZDoom which doesn't have a GL renderer so on Randy's part there's no motivation to switch, mostly because he'd lose a lot of compatibility, since D3D drivers from some vendors are much more stable than GL. And since it relies heavily on shaders, it would lock out many Intel chipsets which come with an ok D3D driver but utterly shitty GL support.

I don't feel like porting it to GL just so that the mode switch can be made to work again. Too much work for too little gain.

Old Post 08-31-12 08:54 #
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