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plums
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Between the recent release of a new version of 3DGE, an impending new version of Crispy Doom that I've been playtesting, another "what port" thread, and a new month with a new DWMC wad, I thought this might be a fun idea.

The rules are simple: pick a source port you haven't used much/at all, and use it as your main port for playing Doom this month. Even if you find it hard to use or dislike it initially, try it for at least a week if you can. Then write a bit about what you liked and didn't like. Obviously some ports are better suited to things than others, so you don't need to be strict about only using one port all the time.


Here are a bunch to choose from that don't get much attention. Or, pick another one! Suggestions welcome, especially from port authors that might be able to provide a case for trying out their port and/or a better blurb than I have written. Also multiplayer, since I'm not even going to pretend I know what I'm talking about regarding online play.

If you don't know which one to pick or why you would pick one, that's fine - the whole point of this is to encourage people to give other ports a real chance. Take one that sounds interesting and give it a go.

Crispy Doom: http://fabiangreffrath.github.io/crispy-doom
Based on Chocolate Doom, with raised (very soon to be removed) limits and 640x480 resolution. A few nice additions commonly requested of Chocolate Doom, like optional mouselook and jumping, monster and secret counter, and some nice visual enhancements like coloured blood. Chocolate Doom compatibility is emphasized; demos and savegames are compatible with Chocolate Doom (and therefore also vanilla).

Doom Legacy - http://doomlegacy.sourceforge.net/
A very old but still active port. One very notable feature is splitscreen multiplayer.

Doom Retro: http://www.doomretro.com
Fork of Chocolate Doom that removes limits and raises the resolution. Compared to Crispy Doom, Doom Retro does not aim for compatibility at all. Instead if offers subtle new features and enhancements that represent the author's vision of what a classic port should be.

3DGE: http://sourceforge.net/projects/edge2
Boom compatible port that also offers lots of modding options, but also works for just playing Doom normally.

Eternity: http://eternity.youfailit.net/index.php?title=Main_Page
Boom (and MBF) compatible, lots of customization options. A nice choice for people who want more enhancements than PrBoom+, without going as far as ZDoom. Help reduce Quasar's blood pressure the next time he sees a "what port do you use" thread!

Risen3D - http://risen3d.drdteam.org/
A fork of Doomsday that adds Boom support. Very nice visual and audio effects, and looks extremely smooth - has the best monster interpolation of any port IMHO. Has support for models and high-res textures, I think they look ugly but even without them everything looks quite nice.

Vavoom - http://www.vavoom-engine.com/
Vavoom is dead - or is it? The site went offline for a bit but has been restored. Supports all Doom engine games and lots of visual enhancements.

Ports that I would consider well-known include ZDoom/GZDoom, Zandronum, Chocolate Doom, PrBoom+, and (to a lesser extent on DoomWorld) Doomsday. While I'd recommend picking one of the lesser-known ports since they deserve some more attention, these ones are well-known for a reason, so give one a try if you want.

Further reading:
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Comparison_of_source_ports
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Source_port


Personally I'm going to be playing a lot in 3DGE this month, since it seems cool but I've never given it a proper shake. I'm also a regular user and tester of Crispy Doom.

Last edited by plums on 08-02-14 at 19:59

Old Post 08-01-14 12:25 #
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Chu
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This is a very great idea! =)

For 3DGE, I recommend using CeeJay's Doom Forever mod and load up your favorite Boom/Vanilla wads. It's a very fun experience without all of the ridiculousness that Brutal Doom contains.

For me, I think I will try Vavoom and Eternity (the latter having badass rendering tricks I can only dream 3DGE will have). Doom Retro looks like a lot of fun, but I'm more of an OpenGL fangirl.

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Old Post 08-02-14 03:03 #
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Doomkid
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Oh jeez, I'm officially a Doom dork. I've tried all of these ports before and use some quite regularly..

Don't forget Odamex, the most under appreciated online Doom port! http://www.odamex.net/ (It's a lagger's dream come true, honestly.)

Also, I really wish Ghostlydeath would continue development on ReMood. 4 player Doom Legacy? What's not to love?!

Old Post 08-02-14 07:13 #
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Archi
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Try odamex, it's the best for classic doom, for sure.

Old Post 08-02-14 08:35 #
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Chu said:
This is a very great idea! =)


It certainly is. I'm going to use 3DGE but reading that list there's a few I'd like to try. Hopefully, I'll persuade Dylan to do a co-op with me on Stomper, that would kill three birds with one stone.

Old Post 08-02-14 08:37 #
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I've decided to download 3DGE onto my work computer. It seems pretty nice but I have this horrible screen flicker to black every few frames. It's driving me mental but I'll have a proper mess around and see if I can stop it. Good fun with the Doom Forever mod though. :)

Old Post 08-02-14 11:13 #
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Cool, glad to see a few people are interested in this. Hopefully there will be more.

Odamex is mainly multiplayer, right? Is it worth trying for people that only play single-player?

I didn't like Doom Forever too much when I tried it - nothing wrong with it, gameplay mods just aren't my thing mostly - but in the interest of giving things a chance I'll at least play a few maps of something through with it. Not Stomper though, since the DWMC is kind of a mass-beta test this month I want to be able to comment on balance/challenge/etc., for which playing unmodded is important IMHO.


Doomkid said:
Oh jeez, I'm officially a Doom dork. I've tried all of these ports before and use some quite regularly..

And yet, you still use Doom95 sometimes? :P
jk, nothing beats nostalgia at times.

Old Post 08-02-14 13:25 #
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You should avoid using the term "Chocolate-compatible" since there should be no such thing. Chocolate Doom strives to be an exact duplication of vanilla and any compatibility breaks between it and vanilla is a bug.

Old Post 08-02-14 16:19 #
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Good point chungy. Wording updated in the OP.

Old Post 08-02-14 19:59 #
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40oz
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I haven't seriously given retro doom a try even though many of its features stand out to me. I'll give it a try. Thanks for the motivation plums!!

Old Post 08-02-14 20:23 #
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wesleyjohnson
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I could give Vavoom and ZDoom another shot at getting them to compile.

Along with trying a different port is to try it with its best wad.
For DoomLegacy the best wads:

Phobiata.wad - fragglescript effects, entirely different experience.

hth2.wad - tech base, 3dfloors, fragglescript

3dHorror.wad - 3dfloors

Chexquest-newlevels - green slime, and a storyline.

For Boom compatible ports.

Rage - Boom tricks
Dawning - Boom tricks

Requiem.wad - texture tricks and some bridges

Bloodwrks.wad - vanilla floor tricks that test port compatibility

Last edited by wesleyjohnson on 08-02-14 at 21:24

Old Post 08-02-14 21:17 #
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^
Indeed. For 3DGE it would have to be QDoom for me and for an Edge TC it would have to be Goldeye. For Eternity, I would go for the Vapourware demo. It's really nice. :)

Any of the vanilla engines, I'd suggest Suspended in Dusk. Just because it's really fun. For sheer prettiness I'd recommend Back to Saturn X.

I'll have to play the Chex Quest New Levels in Doom Legacy. I've played them before but it was a really long time ago!

This thread was a really great idea!


40oz said:
I haven't seriously given retro doom a try even though many of its features stand out to me. I'll give it a try. Thanks for the motivation plums!!


I really love Doom Retro. I now use it instead of Chocolate Doom for pretty much all my 'vanilla' needs. I put vanilla in quotes as DR isn't really that vanilla-y in flavour for all those purists. :P

Old Post 08-02-14 21:41 #
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fabian
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wesleyjohnson said:
Requiem.wad - texture tricks and some bridges



This one is still Vanilla-compatible, despite its mapping tricks. No Boom compatible port is required.

Old Post 08-04-14 06:37 #
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Great idea, plums! Although I plan to spend most of this month mapping and playtesting, I've developed a sudden interest in Odamex. This came about because of my long-term goal of doing a Doom TC of the Amiga game Breathless. One of the things I need is a port capable of supporting a fog effect that also runs on the Amiga, so that Amigans can play the game on their miggies rather than using a PC. I contacted an Amiga programmer about some of the issues involved, because I saw his name at Aminet when I was checking the download counts of my old maps. ;D What stood out about this guy was that he had just ported an old version of ZDoom to the Amiga. Boom -- not PrBoom -- has been available for years. It turns out that NovaCoder also ported Odamex to the miggy, along with various new versions of Quake/Quake 2. He recommended Odamex as the better option for my dream TC. Odamex, last I heard, is also being used for a TC of another Amiga Doom clone, Alien Breed 3D, a project being worked on by XDelusion, who I gather is banned for life here at Doomworld.

I also plan to try 3DGE.

For those who might be interested in seeing the Breathless fog effect, which dates back to 1995, skip ahead to 41:15 in this Amiga Longplay video, because it really is cool as hell; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05j_BlsIbBM

Old Post 08-04-14 09:18 #
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I thought I'd talk about Risen3D, which I've been using for years.

plums already mentioned some of the cool aspects of Risen3D, including its very smooth feel. I just played a bit of BTSX Map01 on GLBoom and Risen3D. As a keyboarder who does all his movement on the numeric keypad, the feel of Risen3D is far superior. There is really no comparison in the smoothness.

I agree with plums that the high-rez textures look awful, and the 3D models look like they're walking around with a stick up their ass. Thankfully, they are not activated by default, you have to deliberately download and install them. My advice, don't. ;)

Risen3D is a GL-only port, which is fine by me because I'm a GL-only player. GLBoom looks pretty decent, but Risen3D definitely looks a bit better to my eyes, and better than GZDoom as well. Default gamma is just the way I like it on Risen3D, which sees well in the dark but isn't over-bright. Another advantage over GLBoom is that the Mordeth bridge in BTSX Map01 looks perfect, but in GLBoom you get a sky texture under the bridge instead of the nukage.

Recent versions of Risen3D have added splash effects and glowing objects, and these appear to be on by default if you launch R3D with ZDL 3.2, but if you use the R3D Launcher, make sure you go into Advanced Options/Sounds and turn off 3D Sound, since this is the only way -- and very unintuitive at that -- to get rid of the horrendous custom sounds that are on by default. Launching Risen3D in ZDL 3.2 seems to get around this problem.

Movement in Risen3D with Always Run enabled is not only smooth but seems to be slightly faster than in other ports. Some jumps that seem to just barely require strafe-jumping in other ports can be accomplished running straight-ahead in Risen3D.

For those like me who hate infinite-tallness, it is turned off by default in Risen3D, and I can't see a way to turn it back on. Yay. Risen3D also supports mouselook.

Risen3D is supposed to be fully Boom-compatible, but during the Mayhem2048 DWMC thread, R3D failed to properly run Map16. I've also noticed Boom-fails, such as a Manc, struck by a Cyb rocket, not quite being knocked off a platform but instead sinking into it and becoming helplessly stuck on Map25. A Lost Soul also became stuck against a wall.

I've experienced other irritations with Risen3D, such as being unable to figure out how to add custom elements, such as cc4-tex.wad, in the R3D Launcher, and instead having to laboriously add the texture pack to the folder R3D creates containing the WAD file, and then it appears in the launcher window. Where's the file browser?

Risen3D also seems to lack a monster/secret counter, unless i missed it somehow.

Also on the list of negatives is Risen3D's touchy auto-aim, which aggressively targets the closest monster, even if it's a mile below you. This makes shooting rockets across gaps very dangerous for the player if unseen monsters lurk below. In this regard, R3D seems as bad as Doom.exe. Yet another issue is that it seems R3D is not the best port for Zerk punching. I've suffered far more damage, and been forced to land many more punches, against Pinkies in R3D vs. GZDoom.

One of the most memorably annoying examples of R3D's overl-aggressive auto-aim occurred on E3M8 of cannonball's Concerned. Near the end, you have to stand on a platform and shoot rockets into a small opening in a wall, to start a reaction that pushes a Sergeant across a teleport line and does some business with a Spider Mastermind or something. The Sergeant is located behind the wall at floor height, while the small opening you shoot through is close to 128 above the floor. When I played, R3D relentlessly kept targeting the Sergeant, and as a result, it was impossible to complete the level, a real bummer since it's long and very tough. I surrendered a lot of pelts even on HNTR, and had to DNF the map. This issue did not occur in GZDoom.

Irritations like these are a primary reason that GZDoom is becoming my port of choice. In spite of this, I still love Risen3D for its many areas of superiority, especially that all-important feel. One thing I hope to accomplish this month is a nice email to Abbs mentioning all these issues. I might copy/paste my post. ;)

Old Post 08-04-14 10:24 #
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wesleyjohnson said:
Along with trying a different port is to try it with its best wad.


Good call wesleyjohnson.

3DGE has already grown on me at this point. I think I'll probably try Doom Legacy, and maybe Odamex too, for the second half of the month, since those are ports I seem to know nothing about. I'll be sure to check out some Legacy specific maps.


SteveD: Never heard of Breathless, looks pretty cool. Though I hope if and when you do make this TC you take a few liberties with the level design, since it's quite orthogonal. Hexen has a fog effect that looks similar to that, and ZDoom supports it in Doom, but there's considerable banding in software mode. Curious to see what Odamex can do though.

Thanks for the comments on Risen3D. I've only played with it a bit, I like a lot of things about it so far but also really dislike one or two things - adding wadfiles seems to be rather a hassle for instance.

Old Post 08-04-14 16:59 #
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plums said:
Odamex is mainly multiplayer, right? Is it worth trying for people that only play single-player?
(...)
And yet, you still use Doom95 sometimes? :P
jk, nothing beats nostalgia at times.


Yep, from my experiences, Odamex is great in SP and multiplayer :) I can't quite put my finger on why, but it really retains that classic feel.

I never got why Doom95 is seen as the shittyest of vanilla sorce ports, after applying the mouse and demo patches, it runs like a charm for me, on windows 7 no less! Even getting a LAN game happening is so simple, without the need for DOSbox to eat up my CPU to emulate a computer that just barely runs Doom.

I think this is just a psychological thing, but I really like that the guns are fatter and that every sound has a low pitch. It makes everything seem tougher, if that makes any sense (it probably doesn't, I'm just a loon!)

Oh, the increased visplane limit was also a nice touch. If only there was a patch to have multiple WADs and DEH support.

I love that choco Doom exists and I am ultra glad it is continually updated so others can enjoy the game in all it's classic glory, but I just don't get much use out of it between having the vanilla EXE and the patched up D95. I'd love to play some Choco online, though.

Old Post 08-04-14 18:20 #
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XCOPY
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Chocolate-doom's current stable release is not recommended for multiplayer due to sound not being played at all. Just saying.

It's a fixed bug, but I don't get why there haven't been a hotfix release yet.

Old Post 08-04-14 19:05 #
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plums said:
SteveD: Never heard of Breathless, looks pretty cool. Though I hope if and when you do make this TC you take a few liberties with the level design, since it's quite orthogonal. Hexen has a fog effect that looks similar to that, and ZDoom supports it in Doom, but there's considerable banding in software mode. Curious to see what Odamex can do though.


Since you know your way around a MOD file, I reckon you might have an Amiga emulator. If you do, and you're extremely curious, the game is available from this site in a sweet WHDLoad version that should "just work." I'll have to install my own emulator on my new machine to give it a whirl myself. Version 1.1 of Breathless (AGA) is recommended, not the 060 version; http://www.whdownload.com/games.php...chButton=Search

One oddity of the game -- no hitscanners! :( By comparison to Doom, the game is very easy and has elements of a Role Playing Shooter in that you have to buy weapons and certain power-ups.

Yes, the engine gives you any wall angle you want as long as it's 90-degrees. ;D This helped with the commendable texture alignment of the game, and apparent good discipline by the mappers to keep at the 64 or 128 unit lengths, although the misalignments at windows indicate the lack of an unpegging feature. It's a big question in my mind whether to stick with the orthogonality or not, since the only way to get a 45-degree angle is to have a sawtoothed wall. ;D

I don't like the sound of that software banding on the ZDoom fog effect . . .

As for Risen3D, when you say loading WAD files is difficult, do you mean files other than the PWAD? That's the trouble I encounter with R3D Launcher. PWADs are easy, anything else is basically a total PITA. ZDL 3.2 thankfully takes care of that problem. For some reason, ZDL 3.1 was unable to launch R3D.

I'll install the new 2.2.26 version today before I write to Abbs.

Old Post 08-04-14 20:58 #
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Graf Zahl
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SteveD said:

I don't like the sound of that software banding on the ZDoom fog effect . . .




Fog in the software renderer just substitutes fading to black with fading to the fog color. Of course this will cause banding with a palettized renderer, there is no way around it due to the lack of colors.

Old Post 08-04-14 21:04 #
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XCOPY said:
Chocolate-doom's current stable release is not recommended for multiplayer due to sound not being played at all. Just saying.

It's a fixed bug, but I don't get why there haven't been a hotfix release yet.

A valid criticism. To be honest, I should probably just do a new release; there have been more than enough changes since 2.0.0.

Old Post 08-04-14 21:25 #
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SteveD
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Graf Zahl said:
Fog in the software renderer just substitutes fading to black with fading to the fog color. Of course this will cause banding with a palettized renderer, there is no way around it due to the lack of colors.


Thanks for the explanation. The next question would be, how does fog look on GZDoom? And to be honest, I have never played a PWAD with a fog effect, so if I knew of one, I'd give it a whirl to see it myself.

Old Post 08-05-14 02:47 #
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XCOPY
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fraggle said:
A valid criticism. To be honest, I should probably just do a new release; there have been more than enough changes since 2.0.0.


I know it's a rather subjective question but are there any latency limit you would recommend for chocolate-doom, in multiplayer games?

Old Post 08-05-14 05:32 #
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SteveD said:


Thanks for the explanation. The next question would be, how does fog look on GZDoom? And to be honest, I have never played a PWAD with a fog effect, so if I knew of one, I'd give it a whirl to see it myself.



I can't think of one for Doom offhand, so here's Hexen MAP08. Click for full-size.

http://i.imgur.com/iVJnysLm.png

http://i.imgur.com/1t2utHbm.png

http://i.imgur.com/OeuNFgLm.png


For reference, ZDoom as well:

http://i.imgur.com/VrOg73Qm.png

http://i.imgur.com/76vE9knm.png

http://i.imgur.com/JUewqW8m.png

Old Post 08-05-14 07:26 #
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plums said:
I can't think of one for Doom offhand, so here's Hexen MAP08. Click for full-size.


Which Hexen port is that and why does it kick ZDoom's ass that hard? :)

Old Post 08-05-14 07:54 #
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Top 3 are GZDoom, and simply because of the GL render there's no banding in fog (or light levels). Also I've got all the GL bells and whistles on, so texture filtering etc. might be smoothing the fog out even more.

There are many times when I like the imperfections that come from software rendering with Doom, but Hexen fog is not one of those times.

I imagine other GL ports would look similar, but I don't know about which ports with Hexen support let you add fog to Doom maps, which is what SteveD wants.

Last edited by plums on 08-05-14 at 08:37

Old Post 08-05-14 08:09 #
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plums said:
I can't think of one for Doom offhand, so here's Hexen MAP08. Click for full-size.


Thanks, plums! The GL pics look way, way better. I guess in a way that makes the Breathless team's achievement look even more impressive, because they coded their fog effect for a miggy running a 68020 at 14Mhz and with no hardware acceleration, although they may have done some tricks with the copper. Other than Breathless, maybe the first fog effect I saw was in Unreal, and that was very, very good.

Downloaded Odamex and 3DGE, so I'll start playing around with them soon.

Old Post 08-05-14 08:31 #
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Since it's past the half way mark in the month I thought I'd just bump the thread a little and tell you what I've been playing.

Normally, I tend to stick to GZDoom with a littel Doom Retro these days but this month I've been playing around with Eternity, 3DGE and Crispy Doom.

Eternity has been fun and there's something about it as a source port I like but for the life of me I couldn't really tell you what it is! The best obvious thing for me is I can play through Vapourware again. :)

3DGE has been interesting. I haven't touched any EDGE for years (probably since the Goldeneye TC) so it was nice to see it being revived recently (thanks Chu). Playing with Doom4ever and at 35 fps has been good fun. I think I'm going to keep it just to play through the odd WAD with the Doom4ever mod...

Crispy Doom... I wasn't expecting too much out of it. As much as I appreciate all the work that is put into all these 'vanilla' SP's I didn't think Crispy Doom was going to offer me much that Doom Retro didn't already give me. However, it's actually been fun. At the beginning of the month I tried it and really liked the flipped levels flag. After a couple of weeks though I had forgotten which port had that in it (been trying out so many things of late!). Today I was reminded that it was this port and so I've been playing with it again. The flipped levels thingy is a really nice way to inject some life back into the tired old IWADS. Later I'm going to play Ultimate Doom flipped with Scifista42's Black Sheep mod. I think I'm having a late night tonight!

Anyway, has anyone else still messing around with different source ports or have you all reverted back into your old habits? :P

Old Post 08-19-14 21:35 #
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I've been meaning to do a write-up about my experience with 3DGE so far, but haven't gotten around to it. Here goes!

Overall I like 3DGE, it has a bit of it's own unique feel that is a bit hard to sum up, much like Average's experience with Eternity. This is a largely subjective decision and one of the things that's probably hardest to sell in a source port, which is something I was thinking about in general when I started this thread - there are things about different ports you might like or dislike that can't easily be expressed in a feature list.

The menus are clean, there's no problems with input, and there are some neat but subtle features like "extra blood" which adds a bit of gore without going overboard.

It's also very easy to customize, if you're not afraid to get your hands dirty. The doom_ddf directory has a whole bunch of user editable files, which you can change to your heart's content. I found a few small bugs (Spiderdemon makes the wrong pain sound, player bobs way too much when moving) and it was fairly easy to fix these.

The major downside to 3DGE has been a lack of compatibility. Several Boom features don't work right: voodoo doll scripts won't always function as intended, sky transfers don't work, etc. Even some vanilla maps I played had problems, generally with self-referencing sectors which probably cause problems with glBSP. There were several times I had to noclip to continue on in a map, or even edit the map in an editor, which wouldn't have been necessary in other ports.

With that as the case, it's a bit hard to say where 3DGE fits in for me. The three ports I use the most are Crispy Doom, PrBoom+, and GZDoom (in that order), and there isn't a whole lot 3DGE does that one of those ports doesn't do. The exception, of course, being 3DGE specific mods, but there just aren't very many of these. The paradox of underused software is that there is less content for it, which means less users, which means less content... no fault of Chu or any 3DGE developers of course, but it is what it is. I did try Doom Forever, which I didn't like too much, but would make a good recommendation for anyone who likes Brutal Doom but wants something that isn't so over the top.

Anyhow, I'm likely to keep using 3DGE, especially once full Heretic support is finished since there aren't as many ports that support it. It's got a lot of character and I'd love to play some maps that were made specifically for it.

Other random things I liked:
* Huge melee attack distance, definitely unbalanced but it's fun anyhow, especially with berserk fist + extra blood.
* The additive lighting is kind of neat. (Initially I thought it was too strong, but toned it down a bit by editing the light mask in edge2.wad.)
* Translucency on weapon firing sprites - Crispy Doom does this too but the idea was directly inspired from when I played with 3DGE before.
* Dedicated screenshot directory, why is this not a thing everywhere?
* Support for Dehacked 2.x format patches!
* Interesting sky stretching and mirroring on the horizon, doesn't always look great but I prefer it in general to the usual GL "fade to a solid colour" method.

Other things I didn't like:
* No demo support at all! :(
* Not particularly fast, a problem for my dinosaur computer when I try maps with high detail.
* Memory of last used weapon on 1/3 keys is not something I like, and can't be disabled.

Things that stood out as odd to me, but which didn't really bother me.
* No way to enable a monster/secret counter, or found-a-secret message - seems like very few modern ports don't have this.
* Shortest jump height in a port that I've seen, it's just a small little hop. Makes it less useful, but also makes me less reluctant to use it since I can't really sequence-break so much with it.
* Mixed feelings on the HUD, it's cool but with 1.36Final it's also the only option. Seems like copying the one from 1.36E works just fine. Maybe I should make my own!

Things 3DGE should steal from other ports, IMHO:
* Animated texture fading from GLBoom+
* SSG gibbing from Crispy Doom - especially as that feature is likely to disappear shortly in the name of compatibility.

Old Post 08-20-14 00:31 #
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Chu
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plums said:

The major downside to 3DGE has been a lack of compatibility. Several Boom features don't work right: voodoo doll scripts won't always function as intended, sky transfers don't work, etc. Even some vanilla maps I played had problems, generally with self-referencing sectors which probably cause problems with glBSP. There were several times I had to noclip to continue on in a map, or even edit the map in an editor, which wouldn't have been necessary in other ports......no demos...etc



3DGE has unfortunately never been about compatibility. The main goal of EDGE before it was to become a powerful modding tool, which it was (and still is). EDGE pioneered many features and mods found much later through ZDoom and was pretty much the only popular alternative to Doom Legacy when it came to modding (it was also first with 3D floors). DOSDoom's core base chose to deviate and not follow standards in order to pull off many tricks at the sacrifice of compatibility. However, in comparison to BOOM features, RTS is much more powerful and robust. Lots of normal DOOM sector/monster/action/etc behaviour is converted and emulated through DDF/RTS - hence some inevitable quirks. Fixing compatibility bugs like we have been doing is nice and I see lots of people enjoy it, but it's still my main focus to keep advancing the port into the modern "2.0" territory that Wesley mentioned. Also, the OpenGL rendering system is really badass and it will only get better as it becomes optimized (also users now have the option to use MiniGL, mostly for older hardware like the Sega Dreamcast).

I strongly feel that 3DGE is the only real modding alternative to ZDoom and its children taking ACS/DECORATE into account (partially including ports like Eternity, though that one I believe has its own language as well, not sure of the specifics so forgive me in advance). I have pondered about making a converter for ACS/DECORATE but honestly anything you do in those can be replicated in 3DGE without much effort. I will continue to build on its foundation because if people just gave it a chance they would see how robust and fun it is to make mods with. I strongly believe that when uncapped framerate support hits that this port will take off like it did in the old days. 3DGE has a huge feature list for modders and supports many modern conventions if one were to give it a chance. The engine is being used in two commercial games so it's not that bad when given a serious project and dedication.


plums said:

Things that stood out as odd to me, but which didn't really bother me.
* No way to enable a monster/secret counter, or found-a-secret message - seems like very few modern ports don't have this.
* Shortest jump height in a port that I've seen, it's just a small little hop. Makes it less useful, but also makes me less reluctant to use it since I can't really sequence-break so much with it.
* Mixed feelings on the HUD, it's cool but with 1.36Final it's also the only option. Seems like copying the one from 1.36E works just fine. Maybe I should make my own!



1) This was added a few weeks back into 3DGE (with a DSSECRET sound and user-editable string in DDFLANG) and will debut with v1.4. Andrewj and myself also referenced ZDoom's CON ticker for messages (including fading and stacking). I can upload that binary if people really want it, but I wanted to avoid making any further enhancements to the cobbled (1.32) 1.36 codebase and save it for the hybrid 1.4 executable.

2) Working on making it more natural, though I believe you can modify this. If not, is this something everyone would like? (increase jump height user modifiable?)

3) That's what I was trying to get at - people can mix, match, and create their own HUDS, also usable in mods. I had forgot to include the default HUD by accident and have created a patch - PM me and I'll provide the link. Or, take your hand at COAL and see what cool things you can come up with. If you know LUA then you're already 10 steps ahead. I've already integrated your previous softmod into 1.4 so any further work you do that you feel you want to contribute (my time is stretched harder than Goatse) I will gladly accept it.


plums said:

Things 3DGE should steal from other ports, IMHO:
* Animated texture fading from GLBoom+
* SSG gibbing from Crispy Doom - especially as that feature is likely to disappear shortly in the name of compatibility.



The first one is a good idea - the second one can be easily done via DDF, would take less than 3 minutes. If it's something people want (or that you make yourself), I will integrate it into the official DDF lib for the next release.

Also, quick thing about FOG - Andrewj previously developed a rudimentary fog option that will become a customization when 1.4 hits (it looks really good, here showing two of my mods using different colors and depths):
http://i.imgur.com/6AjsaDdl.png

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-I3W1xjclQyg/Uc0RIprmyrI/AAAAAAAAC_o/gAx5FzIP4IU/s800/shot32.png

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Old Post 08-20-14 04:57 #
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