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Quasar
Moderator

Posts: 5139
Registered: 08-00

So I notice I've been logged out of the Doom Wiki, which is unusual. I log back in, and what do I see but a new "design" which is indescribably horrible and a message telling me that in a few weeks it's going to become permanent and be forced on everybody.

Let's look at just a few of the things that are wrong with it:

Where the hell are the links to do Wiki editing? I spent a minute looking for them and gave up. Is this even still a Wiki?
Why the hell is everything backward, like it's a page for Arabs or something? Control columns don't go on the righthand side of a page.
Why the hell is it so fucking narrow? The articles are squeezed down into a column that doesn't even exceed 400 pixels in width - and this is on my 1680x1050, folks. 90% of the screen is being wasted with fucking blank background.

I think we need to figure out some kind of migration strategy before this site sells out our data to the highest bidder, or makes it any less accessible.

10-21-10 02:21 #

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Xeros612
Forum Regular

Posts: 979
Registered: 10-10

Odd, it looks like it used to on my end. Unless there are multiple doom wikis, sounds like maybe you're being redirected to a different site?

10-21-10 02:24 #

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Xaser
Forum Staple

Posts: 2120
Registered: 07-03

I'm not liking how go straight to http://doomwiki.org is taking me to some stupid "My Home" page. This isn't doggamn Facebook.

Of course, it may have always been like that, not sure. I've logged into Wikia roughly twice now.

[EDIT] SON OF A BITCH, I see it now. This is, without a doubt, the worst thing I've seen all month.

What the hell is with everyone's insistence on changing site layouts just for the sake of changing them? I don't see a single layout change that has any real benefit besides being different (and uglier) than what was there before.

[DOUBLE-EDIT] WHY AM I GETTING POP-UPS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN

Last edited by Xaser on 10-21-10 at 02:43

10-21-10 02:27 #

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RTC_Marine
Junior Member

Posts: 521
Registered: 06-01

Evil

I just tried to login and it doesn't work correctly in opera, I can't click on the password field without the dialog disappearing, nor can I tab to it without jumping down the page bottom of the page somewhere.. It also has an annoying affect of darkening the whole website when it appears

10-21-10 02:28 #

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Quasar
Moderator

Posts: 5139
Registered: 08-00

Xeros612 said:
Odd, it looks like it used to on my end. Unless there are multiple doom wikis, sounds like maybe you're being redirected to a different site?

Log out, clear your browser cache, and log back in. You will see the new "theme" they intend to migrate to in a few weeks. Like the Youtube redesign before it, they intend to make this non-optional and are pressing ahead with it regardless of the amount of dissent in the communities involved. It seems some other wikia wikis have already decided to exit stage right in the face of these radical changes.

I don't know if there will be any consensus toward this in our community, and if so, where it could be hosted. But I really cannot imagine having to tolerate *that* or whatever worse they come up with in the future for the rest of time.

There's also a lot of talk flying around about Wikia getting bought out, though it's just rumors. But at this point I wouldn't be surprised. With the amount of traffic it brings in, it would be a very attractive addition to the portfolio of any web behemoth. And corporate goons aren't friendly to copyleft culture.

10-21-10 02:37 #

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Xaser
Forum Staple

Posts: 2120
Registered: 07-03

Whoever decided it was a good idea to move the info bar thing to the right side seems to
have forgotten the obscure fact that text is left-aligned.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4333/wikiablankspace.png

Now I need to figure out who first to send the hitman after.

10-21-10 02:57 #

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Janizdreg
Member

Posts: 333
Registered: 07-02

Xaser said:
I'm not liking how go straight to http://doomwiki.org is taking me to some stupid "My Home" page.

You can tick the setting "Disable my redirect to My Home" in the misc preferences to prevent that.

In general I gotta say that I've been using the new skin/layout a while now, and overall I'm quite satisfied with it.

The solid and narrower-than-before content area is indeed a controversial change, but I do see the logic behind it; it functions a lot better on mobile & small screens and it helps with creating consistent page designs, while still being wide enough for most content. Of course it sucks that making wide pages is now an impossibility and part of the current wiki content needs to be redesigned to fit the new skin. And as Quasar mentioned, it wastes a lot of screen space on high-res widescreen monitors.

All the tools that I personally need for my wiki editing are still there, although admittedly the editing interface did change a lot and it took some time getting used to.

During the overhaul period of Wikia there will likely be a bunch of technical problems with logging in and whatnot, so be prepared for some unusual nastiness with the site now and in the near future.

10-21-10 03:10 #

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Xeros612
Forum Regular

Posts: 979
Registered: 10-10

Something's odd on my end then, as I've tried three browsers with cleared caches and it looks normal. Maybe it's account-based then? I don't have one so maybe it's normal still for guest viewers? I don't know, I'm talking rubbish here but it doesn't really make sense.

EDIT: As for the above, really? They're screwing up the design for phone users? If they're going to waste coding time on -that- they may as well have just made it a separate entity from people using the internet on a logical machine.

10-21-10 03:13 #

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Janizdreg
Member

Posts: 333
Registered: 07-02

Those who don't see the new skin yet can preview it via URLs like this: http://doomwiki.org/index.php?tit...y&useskin=wikia - just replace Entryway in the URL with the article name you wish to see.

10-21-10 03:25 #

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Xeros612
Forum Regular

Posts: 979
Registered: 10-10

Ah, yeah. That looks wank, ugly monochrome brown and all. Not the worst I've ever seen, but a real bad step backwards.

10-21-10 03:42 #

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Csonicgo

Posts: 4304
Registered: 03-04

No, this isn't "OK", this is far from OK! What would be best now is to have someone with a good dedicated server to host this (someone in the community) on good, up-to-date wiki software. Can such a thing be done?

10-21-10 03:58 #

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phi108
Member

Posts: 532
Registered: 03-08

The biggest issue I have had with "Wikia" is the annoying "you clicked on a link, are you sure you want to leave wikia?" interruptions. And it's always been a bit too full of ads.

The new design doesn't look better to me. I prefer control columns on the left too.

I'm OK with a dedicated site run by fans and unaffiliated with a higher power, if it comes to that.

EDIT: Wikipedia says:

In August 2010, Wikia announced a new mandatory skin change, this time to a new look nicknamed "Oasis".[68] The new skin omitted some features, such as the popular shoutbox.[69] On September 23, 2010, Wikia introduced the new skin in public beta with the option to be the default skin for certain wikis, like Muppet Wiki.[70] Wikia also revealed the official name of the new skin, Wikia.[71] The Wikia skin will become the default skin on Wikia on November 3, 2010. Wikia also changed the Terms of Use, prohibiting any modification that changes the default layout of the skin.[72] As a result of the skin change, some users have proposed to move their wikis to another wiki farm.[73] Some important wikis like WoWWiki[74], Halopedia[75][76], WikiSimpsons[77] and Grand Theft Wiki[78] have already moved. The new look has been described by Wikia as "sleek" and is supposed to be helpful to new users.[79] However, many of the older contributors feel that it is hard to use and a lot of the features are unneeded and unwanted, especially the fixed width, the image attribution in articles, the bar along the top leading to other wikis and the massive right-aligned sidebar.

Sounds like a case of "They changed it now it sucks", but the negative reaction could be justified. You'd think many wikis would PREFER to have skin options for users.

Last edited by phi108 on 10-21-10 at 04:52

10-21-10 04:37 #

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Quasar
Moderator

Posts: 5139
Registered: 08-00

phi108 said:

Sounds like a case of "They changed it now it sucks", but the negative reaction could be justified. You'd think many wikis would PREFER to have skin options for users.

It makes my eyes bug out just to look at it. I'd call that a justified negative reaction. They've managed to come up with a design which, while not as obviously retarded as Geocities material, still manages to be physically painful to look at and interact with.

I know I won't personally be contributing to the wiki any more if I am forced to use that interface.

EDIT: Also the thing is it's not an option. They're going to remove Monaco, the current skin, which took enough time to get accustomed to, and replace it with this. Like I said before, it's like Youtube. There is no option to stick with a sane, comfortable design.

Last edited by Quasar on 10-21-10 at 05:05

10-21-10 04:56 #

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phi108
Member

Posts: 532
Registered: 03-08

Yeah, I meant their current action is against common sense; they should want more options, not less. I meant "is probably justified", not "could be".

10-21-10 05:15 #

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Quasar
Moderator

Posts: 5139
Registered: 08-00

phi108 said:
Yeah, I meant their current action is against common sense; they should want more options, not less. I meant "is probably justified", not "could be".

Right, gotcha.

Those expressing support for wikia or who don't think it's a big deal might want to check this out:
http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/Grand...Move_from_Wikia
Scroll down to the bottom to find out what happens when you try to separate your community from the beast - I don't suspect that we can expect anything better. But we do have one advantage in this community - because our content is so concentrated, we could, in the event of a move, wipe out most links on the web to the wikia site. A lot of other communities don't have that advantage, as things like GTA are much more general interest than DOOM.

10-21-10 05:19 #

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Mr. T
Senior Member

Posts: 1445
Registered: 12-03

Looks fine to me

10-21-10 05:35 #

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Janizdreg
Member

Posts: 333
Registered: 07-02

Those with a strong dislike for the new skin will still have the option to use Monobook, which can be picked from the skin settings even after Monaco will be gone.

A migration to another server can and will be considered if this causes a notable amount of distress and concern in the community at large (and if we can find a suitable alternative service provider).

10-21-10 05:44 #

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EarthQuake
9.5 on the Richter!

Posts: 2824
Registered: 05-03

Quasar said:
http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/Grand...Move_from_Wikia

Wow, what a load of shit. Let's get the fuck out of there.

10-21-10 05:44 #

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Mechadon
Senior Member

Posts: 1977
Registered: 12-06

I don't really contribute to the Doom wiki much at all, but I do use it a good bit. I'm probably less concerned about the new, forced skin and more concerned with the stuff that the GTA wiki brought up about the Wikia company. It sounds like it's just a bad idea to keep using their services if at all possible. I'd vote for a move to a privately ran wiki on a different server, but of course I'd be of little help with such an endeavor :(

10-21-10 05:54 #

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Quasar
Moderator

Posts: 5139
Registered: 08-00

If there does gather enough momentum toward a move (and it's not clear that is going to happen yet), I would gladly donate time and money toward procuring hosting and a domain name. However I would probably not be able to personally administrate a server as I have no experience doing such.

10-21-10 06:02 #

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fraggle
Super Moderator

Posts: 6566
Registered: 07-00

Yeah, this is frankly horrible. I've found the increasing amount of stuff imposed by Wikia to be offputting for a while now, but I think this new theme is just too much.

It shouldn't be too much work to move the site to a new host. They provide downloadable database dumps. The images and other files might need to be downloaded separately. It should "just" be a matter of finding a new host, installing MediaWiki and loading the database. It's probably slightly more complicated than that in practise of course :-)

EarthQuake said:

Wow, what a load of shit. Let's get the fuck out of there.

I agree. The link you've provided is reason in itself to leave.

10-21-10 09:26 #

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myk

Posts: 14805
Registered: 04-02

I don't really have a problem with it, except that my main browser (K-Meleon) isn't taking it very well, but then it uses an outdated Gecko engine. It's fine on Opera. I read the Grand Theft wiki page and I'm not impressed by what it says there.

10-21-10 09:38 #

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Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 7451
Registered: 01-03

This is just nasty, horrible and flat out stupid. I wonder where those moronic web designers come from? They deserve to be shot to suffer in eternal hell.

I guess they'll only learn if their customers say goodbye to them so that they are left with empty hands.

I have to admit that I have avoided that site like the plague before due to the invasive advertisement but I think I'll steer clear of it completely now.

Last edited by Graf Zahl on 10-21-10 at 09:49

10-21-10 09:41 #

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Sigvatr
Can't post

Posts: 852
Registered: 08-07

It looks exactly the same to me.

10-21-10 09:46 #

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Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 7451
Registered: 01-03

You see it only when logged in. I don't think the new layout is available if not.

10-21-10 09:50 #

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fraggle
Super Moderator

Posts: 6566
Registered: 07-00

Looks like lots of other people have the same feelings on the new skin.

The images at the bottom of the page are quite funny:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101005191524/central/images/8/8d/McWikia.jpg

10-21-10 10:05 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 9139
Registered: 07-07

I have set Monobook to override the "admin choice" of skin on Wikia ever since they introduced Monaco, which was already butt-ugly. Oasis manages to be worse. I strongly dislike how they're trying to turn a wiki -- a collaborative documentation project -- into some sort of Facebook game.

Uncyclopedia somehow managed to set Monobook as the default skin. If we can copy that, we should. The only alternative is getting the hell away from it.

10-21-10 10:13 #

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Jimmy91
rhymes with Midi91

Posts: 1332
Registered: 04-06

Ewwwwwwwww, I hate this. D: D: D:

One of my biggest gripes is actually the brown. Why brown?!?

Yeah, the sooner the wiki gets relocated, the better. The number of ads per page (especially on non-logged-in users) was getting ludicrous.

10-21-10 11:30 #

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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

Posts: 8137
Registered: 06-06

Jimmy91 said:
Ewwwwwwwww, I hate this. D: D: D:

One of my biggest gripes is actually the brown. Why brown?!?

Yeah whatever. Like you don't post at the ZDoom forums all the time. WHICH ARE BROWN. (Unless of course you changed the skin there, therefore making this statement invalid).

Does the $$$ (or lack thereof) allow hosting the wiki on a less ad-ridden domain, though?

10-21-10 12:32 #