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Tormentor667
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Hi Doomworld,
after about 1 and a half months of work, I am proud to release "Torment & Torture 2 - Armory of Pain" to the community :) This is so far (in my eyes) my best and largest zdoom map ever. Unfortunately my bilingual php script still doesn't work so www.tormentor667.de is still in german. But for this release I wrote the news in two languages :) (see www.tormentor667.de). For those who don't want to waste time in browsing on german sites,

http://tormentor667.covers.de/Torme...ion=doomprojekt
--- for Screenshots

http://tormentor667.covers.de/Torme.../files/tnt2.zip
--- for Direct Download

Greetings and a Happy New Year,
Tormentor667

Old Post 12-26-02 20:19 #
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Opulent
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cool.
and a fixed link to Perf.Ent. great.
are these for 1.22 or 1.23beta... /me goes to look at documentation....

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Old Post 12-26-02 21:00 #
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Tormentor667
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TNT2 is for ZDoom 1.23 (read txt ;)) and PerfEnt is for Skulltag!

Old Post 12-26-02 21:25 #
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Biffy
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So far it's tormenting me because it crashes zdoom hard.

DeePsea reports many errors in this map, sectors not closed and so forth. Is this because of some special effects you are using? I find sectors laid right on top of other sectors, lines right on top of each other. A two-sided line facing void space, oddities like that.

I'm using the latest zdoom to try to play it. What's up with all these apparent map errors?

Edit: Trying to fix it so I can play it, just found and deleted about 100 zero-length lines. Still crashes.

Last edited by Biffy on 12-26-02 at 23:47

Old Post 12-26-02 23:21 #
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Tormentor667
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I don't know what causes this map errors and why I do not encounter them. I use ZDoom 1.23 beta 33 (the latest ZDoom befor 2.0) and I have to say it works fine for me.

But I'll try to explain some of your "errors"

Some sectors are not closed because of special map effects I integrated.
The 2 sided linedef facing void has (as far as I know) a line modifier called "line_horizon" (check zdoom homepage for explanation).
Some lines are over lines, yes but these lines are identical (except their special action). I needed to do this one or two times and as far as I know, it doesn't crash ZDoom.

About the zero length lines, how can I delete them?! And which sectors are over sectors?! Perhaps I did a mistake when I was copying and pasting.

And don't forget to play the map with zdoom -file tnt2.wad -heapsize 16 or more!

**EDIT**
Sectors over Sectors: There are several sectors outside (lava) which have a sector in them which has only 1 unit space between. This could "look" like sector over sector!

Last edited by Tormentor667 on 12-27-02 at 00:31

Old Post 12-27-02 00:24 #
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Biffy
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Thanks for the reply, zdoom versions definitely matter. I dug out my old beta33 and as you say, it works OK. Just played a bit of it, man what a great-looking map! I've notified Randy of the problem with the newest zdoom beta, you don't have to.

As far as the errors, I don't think your editor is doing you any favors. It does look like some of the errors are copy and paste errors. Say you have a sector number 1 with some crates in it, which are sectors 2 and 3. Then, if you copy the crates and paste them into another sector, say number 4, those pasted crates will still have their lines referencing sector 1, not 4. This may not be a problem as long as sectors 1 and 4 have the same properties such as floor and ceiling height and light levels.

About finding and deleting zero-length lines, I've only used DeePsea to handle that. I wonder how those get created....do you drag a vertex on top of another vertex?

Look at sector 331 for an example of a two-sided line facing void space. It looks like a sector at the end of a tunnel.

I think that most of the lines on top of other lines are not your intent. I'm not completely sure what's going on with this wad. As DeePsea worked its way through the error checks, I was eventually amazed to see messages about thousands of unused sidedefs and sectors and I allowed them all to be deleted. The file size came down from 12.7 MB to about 8.8 MB.

Maybe Jack V. can shed light on the meaning of unused sidedefs and sectors. It a bizarre error, there are thousands of them packed into the space of a single vertex. Heh, a "black hole" error, a singularity!

Hey, a question; do you mean for the player to use jump? It appears necessary right away.

Last edited by Biffy on 12-27-02 at 02:14

Old Post 12-27-02 01:21 #
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Nanami
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Everyone was right about the crash problem. I tried to run it with the newest beta and it crashed as soon as I hit Ultra-Violence. I even ran it with -heapsize 16.

Anyway, I don't have beta 33. If someone could show me where to get it, I'd appreciate it. I'm supposed to review this level. ^_^;

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Old Post 12-27-02 01:40 #
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Biffy
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I can email beta33 to you, please state your address!

Old Post 12-27-02 02:00 #
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rf`
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zdoom.notgod.com/lars
Should be there.

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Old Post 12-27-02 02:20 #
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Biffy
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I'd say that beta33 is not there.

Old Post 12-27-02 02:28 #
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Opulent
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http://zdoom.notgod.com/ftp/

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Old Post 12-27-02 03:01 #
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Nanami
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Kara@xfury.net

It's also in my profile. =)

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Old Post 12-27-02 03:57 #
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Biffy
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Ah, I see that email addresses are once again being displayed. :)

Tormenter, this wad approaches "stunning" in the looks/ambience factor. For gameplay, it does not disappoint either!

Old Post 12-27-02 04:15 #
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Nanami
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I managed to get it to play using -nosound to eliminate the crash. I'll make a review of it pretty soon here. I have a lot to say about it. =P

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Old Post 12-27-02 07:12 #
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Tormentor667
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@Biffy - It would be great, if you could send me your fixed version of my map because I can't handle Deepsea and also don't have it. E-Mail - webmaster@tormentor667.de ! Less Space and less errors ;)

@Nanami - What about this crash?! :(

Old Post 12-27-02 13:02 #
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Biffy
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Nanami said:
I managed to get it to play using -nosound to eliminate the crash. I'll make a review of it pretty soon here. I have a lot to say about it. =P
NO! Don't do that, the sounds in this wad are an important part of the ambience. Tormenter clearly put a lot of work into them. You have been pointed to the beta33, which works, please use it!

Old Post 12-27-02 15:26 #
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Tormentor667
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Jap, Biffy is right!

http://tormentor667.covers.de/Torme...s/123beta33.zip

Old Post 12-27-02 15:32 #
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Epyo
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Heh, I was listening to System of a Down while playing this wad. Guess I didn't get the full play out of it...

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Old Post 12-27-02 16:41 #
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rf`
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http://www.geocities.com/dragon_69283/zdoomerror.txt
zdoom.exe -file tnt2.wad -heapsize 32
Loads up fine, go to play the thing, get this error. WTF?!?
(640x480 seems abit big eh? :P )
Wait, let's not try this with pre 19 :P

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Old Post 12-27-02 17:35 #
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Biffy
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ravage said:
http://www.geocities.com/dragon_69283/zdoomerror.txt
zdoom.exe -file tnt2.wad -heapsize 32
Loads up fine, go to play the thing, get this error. WTF?!?
(640x480 seems abit big eh? :P )

Hmmm, haven't you read the posts above? All information is there. See also the other thread about tnt2 crash resolved.

OK, you get one break. :) The wad as-is has to be played with zdoom 1.23 beta33, get it at zdoom.notgod.com/ftp. Otherwise, you need to put the "fixed" music file in it as the current d_bluff entry is crashing the latest zdoom beta. If you want the fixed music file and know how to import it into the wad, let me know and I'll send it.

Old Post 12-27-02 17:41 #
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boris
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You can also simply run it with -nomusic

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Old Post 12-27-02 17:48 #
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rf`
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Ok, I got it to work. No music but then again I'm playing a cd anyways. :P Damn this is hard!

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Old Post 12-27-02 17:56 #
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Grazza
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Tarin said:
You can also simply run it with -nomusic
And, to get the best of all worlds, have Eversmoke.umx from your Unreal CD playing on infinite loop in the background (I use ModPlug Player). Seems to work fine.

Old Post 12-27-02 18:00 #
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Tormentor667
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// UPDATE !!!!!!!!!! //
// UPDATE !!!!!!!!!! //
// UPDATE !!!!!!!!!! //
// UPDATE !!!!!!!!!! //


I have put up a new bugfixed version (thx to Biffy for this) which works with all the other ZDoom versions (beta 33+). I even testet DoomGL 0.71 on this and it worked fine (but the skybox).

Get it here:
http://tormentor667.covers.de/Torme.../files/tnt2.zip

// UPDATE !!!!!!!!!! //
// UPDATE !!!!!!!!!! //
// UPDATE !!!!!!!!!! //
// UPDATE !!!!!!!!!! //
// UPDATE !!!!!!!!!! //

Old Post 12-27-02 18:39 #
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Nanami
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http://xfury.net/doom/review003.html

I finally quit being lazy and wrote a review.

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Old Post 12-27-02 19:31 #
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deep
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Tormentor667 said:
I don't know what causes this map errors and why I do not encounter them. I use ZDoom 1.23 beta 33 (the latest ZDoom befor 2.0) and I have to say it works fine for me.
Unused Sidedefs and unused sectors are a normal part of editing. For example, if you decided to delete side2, you've just got an unused sidedef. Or if you decide to edit to use a different sidedef. Similarly certain steps will create more sectors and sidedefs than required. Not a biggie, just make sure you delete them by running the error checker. ZETH can also eliminate these "unused" resources there. However, ZETh does not detect -0- length lines nor lines on top of one another.

For the rest, I have to guess and rely on my memory (a bit rusty since it's been over 6 years). The -0- length linedefs are probably faulty merging logic. Could be you inserted twice, selected them and made lines - not likely though. IIRC, there's one ZETH bug in deletion that can cause a sidedef reference to be too big (1 more than the number of sidedefs). Depends on what's in memory, but technically these can crash the game or nodebuilder.

FYI, all the levels I checked (from your site) should be run through the error checker. ZDOOM checks for -0- length lines on loading, so there should have been some error messages popping up. Also for unused sectors?

Old Post 12-27-02 20:14 #
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Tormentor667
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@Nanami - Nice review, I think about another update in which I add more ammo and eventually skill settings.

I think about myself, that I am a average doom player and for me, there was no problem in beating my own map (without secrets!) and I always had enough ammo.

Old Post 12-27-02 20:29 #
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Nanami
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I usually run into that problem as well. I feel a level I just made is easy, but someone else might find it difficult. Basically it lies in knowing the level like the back of your hand. Even though I played your level about 20 times, I don't know every aspect of it, while you do since you made it. I find it's best to start a thread and ask for a few beta testers to go through the level and point out things about it. If you did that before releasing it, we might've caught the music crash earlier on. =)

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Old Post 12-27-02 20:44 #
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Biffy
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Along those lines, I have a few suggestions. I haven't actually completed the map yet, I've just got as far as getting the yellow key, where you see the message about the containment doors being opened. Fighting the mancubi right after that, then a few hell knights, I finally ran out of ammo. Before that I had been thinking that there was enough, probably because I got at least a bit of monster infighting to help me.

The other thing is health, frankly I had to "give health" several times so I could continue. There were other medikits that I did not need so much when I came across them. I'm probably taking more damage at times than expected, especially when I bump up against a stealth hell knight by surprise and catch a double close-far attack one-two punch. :)

I notice that ammo tends to be placed in nooks, corners and such, and that's good, I wish you would put the medikits and invulnerability sphere out of the way too. Reason is, if I have 90 health, I don't want to stumble over a large medikit when I'll need it more later. If they are off to the side more in some places, players would not have to make such effort to avoid them until needed.

Old Post 12-27-02 21:56 #
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Tormentor667
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Fine, I added some health packs, replaced others and added sometimes more ammo. New version will be out tomorrow!

@Biffy - Plz read mail :)

Old Post 12-27-02 22:14 #
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