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StRiKeR

D64 TC, Love it or hate it?

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Ct_red_pants said:

I've finally got my hand on this sucker, and three words can sum up my feelings:

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!

I was grinning like a complete idiot when I saw that you'd managed to get the intro in... in fact I'm STILL grinning like and idiot! the effort you lads have put in really shows!, hell the only reason I'm replaying and not playing it right not is that I'm getting the music wad as well. Ad a fan of Doom, Doom64, and jdoom, I can say with full authority:

BEST DOOM TC EVER!


I CONCUR!

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have any of you got the tc working online yet? i have had numerous failed attempts with the latest version of jdoom, and the updated d64_abstin.exe.

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DoomRater said:

Not quite. The nightmare Cacodemons are not in Doom 64, unless they actualyl mean the super strong pain elementals... and if tat's in there... that'd be cool. Pain elementals that shoot 2 lost souls instead of one that's mean! But I see that there are cacodemons that are firing two balls? That WASN'T in Doom 64. Oh well. I should play it before I talk aobut it anyway.

This comes with a manual.

deathbringer said:

As anyone can find out from READING THE MANUAL XD

Dag nabit!... Wait a minute, people read the manual?! O_o

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I got to play up to map02, then my machine rebooted. Doom64 TC rocks tho

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The TC plays extremely slow for me(I'd guess an average of about 5-10 fps... and the final level... I'd guess about 0.000001 fps with all those enemies.. X| ugh). jDoom and such play perfectly fine otherwise though, with a nice sharp screen and speedy frame rate, but then load the TC and other than risking a crash(if I try to allocate too closely to the actual free amount of memory I have, since I have 128 total I try to allocate around 72 and 88), I have to deal with bad frame rates which cause unresponsive controls.

It seems to be a good TC, although I think it would've been better suited for ZDoom(GL) with all it's scripting power, skyboxes, abolishment of that damned zone heap, and all.. but I can't wait to play it to it's fullest on jDoom. Hope someone can help..

PS: Personal observations: The sprites should've been shrunk, to accomodate the 1.6 aspect ratio as opposed to the 1.333 they were meant for. And I wouldn't really complain that the original (Doom64) game had blurry graphics.. they were meant for a 320x240 resolution on a naturally blurry tv screen, not a super-sharp 1024x768+ res computer monitor.

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I just finished it, and I have a few Questions:

firstly, how in the name of high smeg do you get the first 2 artfacts? I found the maps and all, but I came damn close to insanaty trying to get at them, can you give me some kind of clue?

is it just me, or do the aracnotrons fire in burts now? I don't think they fired in bursts on the 64 version... why was that done?

and finally, is the DM map "halo" based off a Halo map at all?

just curious...

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I hope this bump is frowned upon buttt....

To find the first artifact: In Outpost Omega, near the exit, before you hit the exit switch, run back up the hallway and go to your left (opposite side of the switch that brought the cacodemons and pain elementals) and there'll be a wall opened, go in there to go to crisis... In crisis, when you get the red key, turn right and look out the fenced window and you'll see a switch, shoot it and run back out the door to the room and run up the the switch in from of you. Next, go back to the area where you can look out and see stars. Go out the exit that leads to a teleporter. Go into that teleporter and you'll be inside a wall, before going out, turn to one of the other walls and open it, there'll be a switch in front of you. Hit it and run out of the walled area and turn left, another wall should be down, go into that teleporter and you'll appear in a hidden area. Go to the only switch in the room and the conveyor belt will activate. Wait for a moment and the artifact will come to you.


For artifact #2: At the exit, before jumping off the ledge, walk past the yellow "arch" and to your right, on a pillar, a switch will be exposed, shoot that and go back to where you got the red key. They'll be another exit there, but don't go in it. Walk up to the exit and turn back around and go to the artifact, the platform will be lowered. If you go into the 2nd exit, it'll lead you to hardcore.

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The Arachnotrons in Doom64 in fact didn't fire a continuous amount of plasma like in Doom 2.

Halo is based off of the Halo map "Battle Creek" the best it can be done, not having true 3D.

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I just finally downloaded it.

Astounding work. Despite my afinity for self-made sprites, I must say, the way they are brought from the ROM to the WAD is amazing. No loss of quality, just the same sharp sprites. Lovely.

I need to play some more, it really is fun, and from the one time I played DooM64 on the N64... It feels like a perfect recreation.

I just want to know about this flat I found in the WAD.

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Kuberr said:

You'll find that in a very secret room hidden in the game :P


I found a secret room in Altar of Pain that says 'You play too much doom', but before you can see it, a picture shoots out fireballs at you, then you can go up to the picture and hit it like a switch and it'll move up and reveal that message ;)

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After a long absence, I finally heard the news that the TC was released. Here are my thoughts on it:

This TC absolutely rocks. It's pretty clear that the team worked long and hard to faithfully recreate Doom 64 (although I cannot say HOW faithfully as I never got around to playing the real Doom 64) and the TC is indeed very enjoyable.

At long last I am able to properly convey my opinion on Doom 64 (note this is about Doom 64, not the TC):

Positives: Has some nice textures in some areas, enemy sprites are interesting and fresh. Most of the weapon sounds are totally kickass, namely the pistol/chaingun sound, the sb shotty sound and the BFG sound. The levels are really fun (except a very small number which annoyed the crap out of me), and despite the fact that I hate most of the music in this game, there are a few music tracks which totally own (ex: map 03).

The Nightmare monsters are really cool too and add to the challenge and the end boss is really enjoyable to fight (not to mention satisfying and cool to fight) although I still think it looks like a four-arm cow rather than a scary demon. And last, the Unmaker is an interesting weapon idea.

Negatives (and hold on tight, there are LOTS in the negatives department I'm sorry to say - this is still only about D64 itself): Monster sprites seem cartooney and cut out compared to the pc sprites - also, while the smaller mosnters from Doom have been given added height, the Barons and HKs don't seem to have changed any so that they seem to be smaller and a lot less scary than they seemed in the PC version imo.
And while the monsters' new looks are interesting in their own right, they typically look less cool and less scary than the PC ones imo (they do have redeeming qualities though) - the only monster sprite I can positively say that I like better than the pc version is the Arachnotron: Much more streamlined and spideresque than the lame pc version.
The monster sounds are imo terrible in comparison with the pc version. I often found that pinkies running about was more annoying than scary (they just use the PC zombie soldier spot sound! That sound fits better as a spotting sound imo) and the imps sound like I-don't-know-what (in a negative sort of way) when you wound them or just plain in general.
While I love a few music tracks, I generally hate Doom 64's music for the same reasons I hate Quake 1's soundtrack, though I do admit that D64's soundtrack owns Quake's - I don't get why people find the sound of crying babies scary. To me, it's just piss annoying - it's bad enough that I've had to endure crying kids right outside my window for the last three years, now I have to hear whiney babies in my games too! SHUT UP ALREADY! (this was just one example - it's not a general beef I have with all the music tracks since only a few features those annoying babies).

The weapons in general look like crap in comparison with PC Doom's (mild exaggeration, elaboration follows): The fist attack is kinda bland, the double-bladed chinsaw is kinda over-the-top and the pistol looks like ass. The sb shotty is probably the one weapon I think looks good next to perhaps the Unmaker. The db shotty isn't bad, but it reminds me too much of the Quake 1 db shotty and I don't like that! The chaingun is total ass, especially with that blue muzzle flash. The rl looks decent, but the plasma rifle looks like it's made of plastic imo (but the worst part of this weapon is the annoying buzzing sound it makes while you're not firing it) and while the BFG looks ok, it's vastly inferior to the PC BFG.
Add to this that there is no decent recoil or shotgun reload animations - the lack of the latter totally kills the coolness of the two shotguns imo. What is a Doom shotgun without a reload animation? A powerful Quake shotgun!

I also agree with Enjay (I agree with him on pretty much everything he said) on the dull, Quake'eque textures. I don't like the rusty look, I prefer a low-tech, yet still sexy techy look to my sci-fi environments.

So far, most of the negatives have been nitpicks, but this one is really what I consider a major flaw and the single worst thing about Doom 64: The upgrades to the Unmaker.
Sure, it's a cool basic idea, but the fact that they're hidden so well, PLUS the fact that they're essential to complete the game (they serve as keys in addition to their upgrade function and if you don't have them in the end level, the Motherdemon bitch won't appear even after you slaughter everything that breathes, because you can't open those retarded doors to those damn switches). Thus until I finally managed to find the right secret levels, let alone finding the way to get to them AND finding the secret that would allow me to get to these damn upgrades, I could only beat the game by cheating either by noclipping behind those doors or by using the cheat code to give me all the unmaker upgrades.
This really put me off and briefly made me hate the game. Imo designing levels or an entire game so that the only way to beat it is through finding a secret/several secrets amounts to a criminal offence.

Yet despite the overload of negative things I have to say, I'll still say that overall, Doom 64 is a totally cool game, but it does not hold as much as a single tiny little match to the original PC Doom.

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dsm said:

Negatives (and hold on tight, there are LOTS in the negatives department I'm sorry to say - this is still only about D64 itself): Monster sprites seem cartooney and cut out compared to the pc sprites - also, while the smaller mosnters from Doom have been given added height, the Barons and HKs don't seem to have changed any so that they seem to be smaller and a lot less scary than they seemed in the PC version imo.
And while the monsters' new looks are interesting in their own right, they typically look less cool and less scary than the PC ones imo (they do have redeeming qualities though) - the only monster sprite I can positively say that I like better than the pc version is the Arachnotron: Much more streamlined and spideresque than the lame pc version.
The monster sounds are imo terrible in comparison with the pc version. I often found that pinkies running about was more annoying than scary (they just use the PC zombie soldier spot sound! That sound fits better as a spotting sound imo) and the imps sound like I-don't-know-what (in a negative sort of way) when you wound them or just plain in general.



I have to agree with that. Almost all of the monsters look vastly inferior to the PC version. The main reason for this is that the designers apparently went out of their way to make them [b]UGLY
! The 2 I can accept are the Cacodemon and the Arachnotron. The rest completely suck. They are badly animated and too large. The Pain Elemental is the worst of all. It's just a horrendously ugly shape, nothing more.
I took the time to replace all monsters with the original ones which wasn't easy because of the game DLL but in the end I enjoyed the game twice as much.

While I love a few music tracks, I generally hate Doom 64's music for the same reasons I hate Quake 1's soundtrack, though I do admit that D64's soundtrack owns Quake's - I don't get why people find the sound of crying babies scary. To me, it's just piss annoying - it's bad enough that I've had to endure crying kids right outside my window for the last three years, now I have to hear whiney babies in my games too! SHUT UP ALREADY! (this was just one example - it's not a general beef I have with all the music tracks since only a few features those annoying babies).


I don't like this kind of ambient music so I never used it in the game. Some time ago I compiled a WAD of my favorite game music tracks and that is what I mostly use with Doom levels. I think it fits the game much better.

The weapons in general look like crap in comparison with PC Doom's (mild exaggeration, elaboration follows): The fist attack is kinda bland, the double-bladed chinsaw is kinda over-the-top and the pistol looks like ass. The sb shotty is probably the one weapon I think looks good next to perhaps the Unmaker. The db shotty isn't bad, but it reminds me too much of the Quake 1 db shotty and I don't like that! The chaingun is total ass, especially with that blue muzzle flash. The rl looks decent, but the plasma rifle looks like it's made of plastic imo (but the worst part of this weapon is the annoying buzzing sound it makes while you're not firing it) and while the BFG looks ok, it's vastly inferior to the PC BFG.
Add to this that there is no decent recoil or shotgun reload animations - the lack of the latter totally kills the coolness of the two shotguns imo. What is a Doom shotgun without a reload animation? A powerful Quake shotgun!


Again we are in full agreement. A shotgun without a reload animation is no shotgun at all!

So far, most of the negatives have been nitpicks, but this one is really what I consider a major flaw and the single worst thing about Doom 64: The upgrades to the Unmaker.
Sure, it's a cool basic idea, but the fact that they're hidden so well, PLUS the fact that they're essential to complete the game (they serve as keys in addition to their upgrade function and if you don't have them in the end level, the Motherdemon bitch won't appear even after you slaughter everything that breathes, because you can't open those retarded doors to those damn switches). Thus until I finally managed to find the right secret levels, let alone finding the way to get to them AND finding the secret that would allow me to get to these damn upgrades, I could only beat the game by cheating either by noclipping behind those doors or by using the cheat code to give me all the unmaker upgrades.
This really put me off and briefly made me hate the game. Imo designing levels or an entire game so that the only way to beat it is through finding a secret/several secrets amounts to a criminal offence.


That's plain and simply bad game design. Just having each powerup once and well hidden and than adding the necessity to get them in sequence is a cruel joke. It would have been ok if one was able to get #2 and #3 without getting #1 but as it is its a huge negative for the TC.

Overall though it's still very good. But the negatives keep it from being excellent.

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I hate to tell you guys this, but originally you didn't have to get the absolution keys in order :( Elby and Kaiser decided it was a good idea, and thusly did it.

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Also, you do NOT need the artifacts to get the monther demon. there's prolly a lost soul still flying around or something. Look at the crannies and find any last few monsters you need.

Trust me, the door will open without the artifacts- I've had my fun trying to kill everythign in the arena to get to the mommy demon- and each time the door wouldn't open I went around to look for a monster and always found some baron or some crapola mosnter like that who needed a few more bullets to die.

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Well, I think they're mistaken by saying you need them, I think what they mean is that it makes it hundreds of times easier.

I for one have beat it several times without the artifacts, but I can't blame them for wanting them.

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Melfice said:

I hate to tell you guys this, but originally you didn't have to get the absolution keys in order :( Elby and Kaiser decided it was a good idea, and thusly did it.



Well, it was a bad idea - because there is just one of each. If there had been more so missing one wouldn't be so critical then it might have worked.

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Melfice said:

I hate to tell you guys this, but originally you didn't have to get the absolution keys in order :( Elby and Kaiser decided it was a good idea, and thusly did it.

You don't need to "hate to tell us this" - I appreciate that you enlighten me ;-)

Well then, it seems that I'm gonna stare darts at Elby and Kaiser for coming up with this stupid idea. What were you thinking?
/Stares evil darts at abovementioned guys.

As for the problem in level 30: Well, then I guess it's not as much Doom 64's fault (unless D64 has the exact same bug of lost souls ending up inside walls after you blow up a pain elemental), but it still annoys me to Hell that one little bug prevents me from getting to the boss, unless I do some noclipping.

I forgot to mention that I find the fact that using the shotgun or the rocket launcher results in you being pushed back is more annoying than cool imo. I know iD originally had this in PC Doom but they canned it - imo the reasons for this were rather obvious, but I'd better state them anyway: it adds for more annoyance factor when you end up falling off a ledge because you just fired your db shotgun at an enemy.

I also forgot to add a thing in the positives, namely that I find it really cool that Doom 64 had new kinds of traps (e.g. the spear-head shooting thingies in some walls).

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dsm said:

I forgot to mention that I find the fact that using the shotgun or the rocket launcher results in you being pushed back is more annoying than cool imo. I know iD originally had this in PC Doom but they canned it - imo the reasons for this were rather obvious, but I'd better state them anyway: it adds for more annoyance factor when you end up falling off a ledge because you just fired your db shotgun at an enemy.


when I update the TC again, I'll have that set as an on/off option.
it was suppose to be an option for that before the tc was released, but like so many other things, I forgot to include it.

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dsm said:

As for the problem in level 30: Well, then I guess it's not as much Doom 64's fault (unless D64 has the exact same bug of lost souls ending up inside walls after you blow up a pain elemental), but it still annoys me to Hell that one little bug prevents me from getting to the boss, unless I do some noclipping.


Why does it do this anyway? The XG-script waits for Pain Elementals, Mancubi, Arachnotrons and Cacodemons to die. I cannot find any Lost Souls in there so this behavior seems a bit odd.


I forgot to mention that I find the fact that using the shotgun or the rocket launcher results in you being pushed back is more annoying than cool imo. I know iD originally had this in PC Doom but they canned it - imo the reasons for this were rather obvious, but I'd better state them anyway: it adds for more annoyance factor when you end up falling off a ledge because you just fired your db shotgun at an enemy.


I have to agree. It was annoying in Boom and all its successors (where it could be switched off, however) and it's annoying here. It just makes the game unnecessarily harder to play, nothing else.

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I personally feel that the push-back sort of takes away part of what I like about the controls in Doom, which is the absolute control over the marine.

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Thanks for the update guys, that helped getting rid of my biggest beef with the TC.

/Me enjoys the crap out of probably the best TC ever made.

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Doom 64 never had this problem of Lost souls stuck in walls. And on top of it, There's no option for no clipping, and as of yet there's no GameShark code to find it and turn it on, although it was originally planned as I found the source text for No clipping mode... I was messing with strings back in the times of the GS Pro, making my game say "Picked up some shit." instead of "Picked up some ammo." on Goldeneye.

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Advice:

If the mother demon doesn’t appear after you think you've killed everything, as a last resort, type "kill" in the consol. this will kill any spawned monsters that you can't find (like lost souls stuck in walls) and allow the mother demon to appear.

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Ct_red_pants said:

Advice:

If the mother demon doesn’t appear after you think you've killed everything, as a last resort, type "kill" in the consol. this will kill any spawned monsters that you can't find (like lost souls stuck in walls) and allow the mother demon to appear.

I think it was a bug that affected my system. At any rate, the updated version of the TC took care of my 'little' problem, so now everything's just swell :-)

Gotta love the chaingun sound - they're like a hundred times better than the sound that the pc version's chaingun makes.

[edit]I dunno if this is a bug or one of those extremely annoying, well-hidden puzzles that I haven't figured out yet, but I'm having some problems completing "Watch your step".
I generally assumed that once you kill everything in this map, the exit would become accessible and that also turned out to be the case when I played the TC on "I own Doom", but as soon as I played "Watch me Die", the last couple of monsters, plus the cyberdemon that appeared on the lower skill setting refused to show up after I had dispatched of every last monster.
The "kill" command didn't work either, so now I'm scratching my head over this problem.

If this is a bug, please try and see if you can fix it.
My specs are:
AMD Athlon XP +2600
256 Mb DDR-SDRAM
Nvidea Geforce 2 MX
[/edit]

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I had the same problem when I used to play the game on my n64, once you enter the center room, teleport and reach the next teleporter. from there you must get the blue armor/beserk pack in order for the ending battle sequence to happen.

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