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Grazza
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Grimm said:
Heh, seriously, whaddya mean?
A time-capsule is a sort of lame thing they sometimes get schoolkids to make. Bung all sorts of crap into a sealed container that is to be put into a bank vault or something, and opened in 1000 years' time. And presumably pray that someone gives a damn.

Ultimate Doomer: If we're thinking of the same guy, he's not over 65 (based on his DHT text), and he has a son who plays (and maps) Doom.

Oh, and everyone should lay off foofoo a bit. This is the guy who gave us Equinox, remember. On a more constructive note: a straightforward project would probably get a better response than one based on the premise that Doom is dying. On the other hand, if a "requiem" for Doom (that idea sounds oddly familiar...) is all you're interested in making, then I for one would be very interested to see it. However, I would expect to play several thousand more Doom wads thereafter. :)

Old Post 08-19-03 06:39 #
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sargebaldy
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heh, doom3 poses no threat to doom. doom3 poses a threat to the quake3 community, and halflife2 poses a threat to halflife. the doom community will be just fine when both of those games are dead.

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Old Post 08-19-03 06:54 #
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Trasher][
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"Doom will never die... it'll just start to smell like it"

Doom's a safe place in the games world, a pixellated refuge from the dangerous uber-3d worlds of Quake and the like, where everyone can live in relative peace and agree on a enemy.

Old Post 08-19-03 08:11 #
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Foofoo
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All i wanted to get across was the idea for a wad, and all you guys responded to was the first fleeting thing I said. But, COME ON! you guys can't play Doom forever, could you? COULD YOU? Its like the Star Trek geeks always playing out their lives about Star Trek, or those Phone Phreaks of the early days always in their rooms on their little phone machines. Take your head out of the tree and look at the forest. Doom is one such tree (metaphorically speaking offcourse)

Or maybe you guys ARE looking at the forest and every tree to you is Doom. THAT is the point of no return.

..sorry.

Old Post 08-19-03 08:21 #
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Naked Snake
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Foofoo said:
All i wanted to get across was the idea for a wad, and all you guys responded to was the first fleeting thing I said. But, COME ON! you guys can't play Doom forever, could you? COULD YOU? Its like the Star Trek geeks always playing out their lives about Star Trek, or those Phone Phreaks of the early days always in their rooms on their little phone machines. Take your head out of the tree and look at the forest. Doom is one such tree (metaphorically speaking offcourse)

Or maybe you guys ARE looking at the forest and every tree to you is Doom. THAT is the point of no return.

..sorry.





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Old Post 08-19-03 08:30 #
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sargebaldy
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heh, it's a neat idea. just don't expect a 'last wad' for another 10 years at least. i personally don't care in the slightest 'doom3' is coming out.

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Last edited by sargebaldy on 08-19-03 at 08:39

Old Post 08-19-03 08:33 #
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Grazza
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Foofoo said:
But, COME ON! you guys can't play Doom forever, could you? COULD YOU?
Don't forget that the most popular board game in the world is also one of the oldest known.

People have seized on "the first fleeting thing" you said since it appeared to be the whole premise and motivation for the project.

BBG: remember that newbie at DW != newbie to Doom.

Old Post 08-19-03 09:00 #
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sargebaldy
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Grazza said:
BBG: remember that newbie at DW != newbie to Doom.
indeed. between equinox and the nuts series he's a far more valuable member of the community than bbg =P

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Old Post 08-19-03 09:08 #
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Grazza
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Enjay said:
Both my kids have Dehacked-to-be-easier Chex Quests on the PC's in their rooms, and my son keeps asking me to help him "make a game like you do" when he watches me doing stuff with DeePsea and Zdoom. :-)
I've done my bit too: I indirectly introduced a four-year-old to Doom. He seemed to pick it up rather quickly - a few weeks later he was asking how to do the strafe-jumps in HR map11. He called Doom "the meat-cut game". Cute. :)

Old Post 08-19-03 09:29 #
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Foofoo
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After 15 minutes of posting my last message, I came back and there was like 4 or 5 replies. You guys are fast! which is a bit... questionable.

So no one gives a crap about my idea? No? Ah well. I would've liked it anyway. And no, I wouldn't make it, I'm purposely trying to end my Doom wad making days. But DAMNIT! Thoughts of Wad ideas fill my mind and they tempt me so.
Anyway...

Old Post 08-19-03 09:33 #
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deathz0r
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nuts4!

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Old Post 08-19-03 10:45 #
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Grazza
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Equinox Mission Pack!!!
Equinox: Opposing Force!?

Obviously, the Equinox resources could be reused in both cases, and in the latter case portions of the maps could be reused too.

BTW, there was an old pwad called Doom3 (heh) in which, among other things, you revisit areas similar to ones in Doom and Doom2. In one of the maps there are scenes similar to E1M8, E2M8 and E3M8, and in another there are areas akin to the cyber/barons room in Map08.

Old Post 08-19-03 11:41 #
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Little Faith
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Sorry, Foofoo if we sound a bit condescending, but I assure you that we have nothing ill to say about one of the community's best mappers at the moment. We do, however, believe that your observations are a bit off the hook.

You say that Doom will be made redundant by the technically superior Doom 3 and you cite Wolfenstein and RTCW as an example of the same.

I dare to say that your observations are wrong.

Firstly, if you look at Wolfenstein and Return to Castle Wolfenstein you see two very different games. The only thing they really have in common is the setting (nazis with black magic) and the overall genre (FPS). The gameplay is widely dissimilar with Wolfenstein being a fastpaced shooter and RTCW being at times a very tactical affair.

Also mapping and modding for these two games are worlds apart. The real reason that I think people have abandoned mapping for Wolfenstein is that it's engine allows the mappers so little freedom. There is little to do with Wolfenstein other than making the same winding strictly orthogonal mazes. No floor/ceiling variation, no lighting, no active parts besides doors and secret doors. And walls are all made of big cubic sections of the exact same size. You can change some of the sprites and textures but that's about it.

RTCW, being a modern engine especially designed for complex outdoor areas allow much more creativity, but also require considerably more skill and effort.

That brings us to the Doom/Doom3 example.

These two games are also widely dissimilar really only sharing the story/setting and the genre. Sure Doom3 will have some more reminiscenses from Doom with the same set of weapons (almost) and the (almost) same set of monsters (though the look much different). But the gameplay will be different. id Software already assured us of that.

Doom is very fastpaced. It is a "horde" FPS, meaning that it uses lots of individually unthreatening monsters that become dangerous in numbers. The action is fast and simple. Deathmatch in Doom is also quite different from other FPS'es stressing movement and quick short/midrange combat much more. If you observe the sayings and doings of the "serious" demo and deathmatch circuit you will get an idea that Doom is indeed a very different game from all the other FPS'es out there. (Have anyone heard of Half-life speedruns, no?).

Doom3 on the other hand is much more gritty and tactical. The player will not be gifted with the unnatural reflexes and celerity most classic doomers have become accustomed to and monster will be few and far between. A single hell knight will actually be something you are scared of. The only gameplay-wise similarity I can think of is that combat will probably be dominated by short/midrange struggles (both sp and deathmatch) and less by "sniperwhoring".

Mapping for Doom and Doom3 will also be worlds apart. Doom has a quirky 2d map format that nonetheless allows the mapper quite some freedoms. Sure it has it's limitations (such as the lack of room over room) but has the big advantage that it is very easy to edit. Also some of it's limitations can be "overcome" by tricks or use of source port features as you learn more about Doom editing. It is therefore Doom editing has become so insanely popular. It is something everyone can do if they have a bit of determination.

Doom3 editing, however, I doubt will ever be a pastime available for the average gamer. Sure I trust id Software to produce a very userfriendly editing interface, but editing in such an advanced engine will never be an easy task. Getting something to look and play right is something requiring skill in 3d modelling and mapping and as such I think Doom3 editing will mainly appeal to people who have already wet their feet in mapping for other (easier) games.


So to conclude this: I understand why you want to stop editing for Doom and move on to engines that are tougher to deal with, but allows more freedoms and look better. But don't count on all of us following troop behind you. Firstly you are not the pied piper (though your name and credentials carry some wieght), and secondly we are not all godly or semi-godly Iikka Keranen style mappers. (Iikka Keranen was one of the famous Doom mappers who left the community for "greener pastures").

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Old Post 08-19-03 11:57 #
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sargebaldy
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oh yeah, i have that. still have yet to play it though.

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Old Post 08-19-03 11:59 #
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Foofoo
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Well, if I WAS gonna do an Equinox sequal thing, i'd put like pagan references in it, because the Equinox was something central to the pagans. I know it sounds stupid, but I always saw the alien invasion in the Equinox facility in the wad as a mirror of how the Christians practically took over the pagans- just like how the aliens take over the facility and change it in their own image. And YOU, the symbol of aethism, goes in and destroys it all! haha. Yeah yeah. Sounds stupid. I know. I do film stuff. I see mirrors of things everywhere.

I'd name the sequel 'Vernal Equinox' or 'Solstice' or something like that.

Old Post 08-19-03 12:01 #
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Foofoo
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Okay, LittleFaith, after I said all that stuff I then said "...well to me anyway", as in to ME Wolfenstein3d drifted from memory after RTCW, and to ME Doom1 and 2 are gonna feel like yesterdayland to me when Doom3 comes out. I didn't mean in general. If you guys in the magical lands of classic Doom want to stay there, then stay there. I'm gonna be leaving! Plus, who knows, I might still do some old Doom stuff when Doom3 comes by. And there is NO WAY IN HELL i'd map for Doom3 or any other recent 3d game for that matter. Like you said littlefaith, Its just not fun at all.

Oh, and Littlefaith its funny that you wrote something about me being the pied piper of Doom... hehehe! Have you ever played my old Dmlands.wad? Its a piece of shit! Its seriously down-right horrible.

Old Post 08-19-03 12:30 #
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Foofoo
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Sorry Littlefaith- I just read your big reply again and the reply I gave in return doesn't make sense hehehe- I should start actually READING these posts before I reply.

Old Post 08-19-03 12:36 #
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Grazza
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I'm very interested to hear how you view the Equinox story, since in-game we are certainly presented with parts of a coherent story, but much is left to our imagination. I was never completely sure if it was meant to be the same installation transformed, or if we had been transported to an alien version based very closely upon it. (I was influenced there by the way the Japanese made a replica of Egeskov Slot, oddly enough.)

I played dmlands.wad. I'd say it's what you'd expect the early efforts by an outstanding mapper to look like. I enjoyed playing it, but it's not a wad I'd tend to re-play too often.

Old Post 08-19-03 12:46 #
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Foofoo
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to be quite honest with you even I don't know what the hell the story is hehe. Because it isn't spelled out or said or anything, its up to the observer. At first I thought of it as the creatures were creating a duplicate of Equinox in their own reality, but I think its better if they took over Equinox and changed the look of it, kinda like how an enemy takes over another enemies fort and puts their own flag in it (sorta thing). Its then even better, because after risking your life and doing so much to save it, at the end you gotta destroy it.

Either way the story to Equinox is quite run-of-the-mill ...i spose.

Old Post 08-19-03 13:05 #
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Darkhaven3
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Heh, I guess this would be the right time to say this.
I've got a DooM-Ish family. I play DooM, I'm 12, (played DooM since I was 4) my dad plays DooM, and my mom plays it a little bit. The strange thing is that I'm the best mapper out of us 3.

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Old Post 08-19-03 14:41 #
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Epyo
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I bet half of the people in this thread don't have good enough computers for Doom 3. Doom will live on.

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Old Post 08-19-03 15:03 #
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BlackFish
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Trasher][ said:
Uh, Wolf3d is still actively modded. http://www.areyep.com



somebody tell me where I can extract those sprites. :P

Old Post 08-19-03 15:06 #
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Grazza
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Epyo said:
I bet half of the people in this thread don't have good enough computers for Doom 3. Doom will live on.
If that's a major reason why people are still playing Doom, then its days truly are numbered. However, I don't believe that is the case.

Incidentally, I have been playing more Doom relative to newer games since I got my latest computer, and it's one that could very comfortably handle Doom 3. I admit there was an initial period when I replayed Q2, HL, U & U2 with high resolutions and everything else turned on, just to see how those games looked in all their glory.

Old Post 08-19-03 17:36 #
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Grimm
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Christians practically took over the pagans- just like how the aliens take over the facility and change it in their own image.


BASTARD CHRISTIANS!!!!!

Heh, nicely said Little Faith. Oh, and I don't beleieve I've played Equinox. Where could find it?

Old Post 08-19-03 18:38 #
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Grazza
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You really haven't heard about Ling's search tool? Oh well...
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=11412

Old Post 08-19-03 20:24 #
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Doom Dude
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BlackFyre said:
My daughter and my wife both map. Doom lives! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHCOUGHCOUGHHACKHACKHACKHAHAHHACOUGH


You should see a doctor for that bad cough. ;) :p

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Old Post 08-22-03 13:39 #
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