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Nmn said:
First of all-I recomend that You PLAY the wad and check the gameplay Yourself.
Now My opinion:
Perhaps many were thrown away by the easy gameplay of early level-which is IMO good and feels the classic e1 mood-meaning, shotgun and a whole lot of dead zombies and imps. Later the gameplay progresses nicely into harder and finally the final battle is frankly insane :D I don't think there's anything wrong with P:AR Gameplay. One of the best wads made. Get it, play it, love it.

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Erik said:
Too complicated progression, architecture interfering with gameplay, too many bullet opponents in ambush positions with too little health.

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NiGHTMARE said:
Absolutely. In my opinion, it's wads like HR and AV which suffer from "gameplay problems" :P.

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NiGHTMARE said:
Absolutely. In my opinion, it's wads like HR and AV which suffer from "gameplay problems" :P.

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Erik said:
Too complicated progression, architecture interfering with gameplay, too many bullet opponents in ambush positions with too little health.

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Dron said:
uh, no. hr and av have excellent gameplay, the people who whine about it need to improve their dooming skills

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Dron said:
uh, no. hr and av have excellent gameplay, the people who whine about it need to improve their dooming skills

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Dron said:
uh, no. hr and av have excellent gameplay, the people who whine about it need to improve their dooming skills

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netnomad312 said:
Well, some of us don't already have "mad skillz0rz" that allow us to dodge bullets from 50 enemies at once, or spend 90% of our lives trying to gain said "skillz0rz."
At the very least, wads should be beatable without too much hassle on medium skill. If you want a blastfest, put more monsters in hard skill, but not medium. The later levels of HR, Scythe and many levels of AV really piss me off because they expect too much from you on medium skill.

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Graf Zahl said:
Filling a large level with 200 monsters and making it challenging - that takes skill!

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Graf Zahl said:

Exactly! The problem with those making this kind of maps is that they absolutely don't have a feel for lower skills. Most of these maps have skill settings like 'extremely hard', 'insanely hard' and 'impossibly hard' but nothing below. Deus Vult is a great example of a WAD that is massively hurt by this problem. AV and HR logically fall in this category as well.
A good looking level doesn't do much for me if it plays like shit.

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Doom Marine said:


Your words implied that you have played Deus Vult at a lower skill level. Deus Vult was rigged to be laughably easy on skill 1/2, so to get the maximum impact of the map, try skill 3 or higher. Seeing how you utterly hate these slaughter maps, I don't expect to change ur opinion anytime soon.

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From example 1:
In single player, I always (except in rare circumstances) play in "hurt me plenty" mode (skill 3). Usually that mode is for those of us who don't want to be bothered too much with the monsters, but still want a slight challenge. And when I see medium-class monster ambushes (like revenants and hell knights) leaving you in a small space with no way out, that sort of puts up a red flag in my mind that reads "bullshit." That's usually about the same time I turn on IDDQD and tyson the whole squad to death just because I'm pissed off at the whole setup. Ever been in that situation? It ain't fun.

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From example 2:
There's something else I should mention, though: those annoying ambushes would be a lot more tolerable with proper weaponry and health. But I've played levels (just recently, in fact) where the health item count is just pathetic. I played one map the other day where there was almost no health save for a few stimpacks, no armor whatsoever, a few sniping chaingunners near the start to whittle down your health, and then it turned into a teleport-fest where I'd end up in the middle of revenants, hell knights and the occasional mancubus, all with 52 health and no armor at all. Just perfect.

My only theory is that people are skimping on the health just because of how they play, which is understandable; every mapper builds to the style of play he or she is most comfortable with, whether they realize it or not. But if you only build your map to your specifications, this in my opinion is the mark of a bad mapper. I happen to lose a lot of health when I play. I'm not the super-stealthy type, and I'm not the greatest shoot-everything-before-it-hits-you freak either. So I'm always in a bad situation when I get put in unreasonable situations with 10 or 15 medium-class enemies, no health and nowhere to run.

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Graf Zahl said:
Great page! This should be required reading for every mapper - but I'll bet that half of them would dismiss it nevertheless.

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Erik said:
The page contains good basics except that it seems to equal many monsters with hard gameplay, which is clearly wrong.

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Szymanski said:
I don't really agree with point 4. If someone places a big pickup or weapon before a new area or teleport it's either one of two things:

1 a trap
2 absolutely nescessary

otherwise it's a reward, and you usually don't get them until after the fight.

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