Welcome to Hell Released.

Nuxius said:

But yeah, I totally understand what you're saying on huge outside areas bringing the FPS down, heh, I'm having that problem on a map I'm currently making.

But what I see is when the map is going bigger, the FPS is going faster down, also in separating rooms. When starting making the map the torch is burning very nice, good flames. When the map was finish the torch is half the quality, the doors are not going smooth open etc. That is for me the big limitations to make big maps for doomsday. I was like to make a airport that was invaded by aliens, but that are big open arias with a lot of models and lightning, I think doomsday cant manage that on this moment.

Greetings.

The reason the number of particles is reduced the more torches you add is because of the way you've set up the torches. You've used a "pool" of particles that are shared between all torches on the map. If you want the same number of particles on each torch then you need to change your torch definitions to use a generator per object. There is no hard limit on the number of particles per object.

Doomsday's model renderer is very fast, I doubt it is the models that are causing the fps issues.

As I mentioned it's the use of dynamic lights for large scale map lighting that is causing the slowdown.

If doing an airport you could just use sector lighting up to 255 for the exterior area, and big models for the planes. This would be especially good if the player couldnt go outside, then you'd only need to model the parts of the planes that could be seen from the windows, and the other side could just be flat, to save on polygons. Also, you wouldnt get burning torches in an airport, heh

DaniJ said:

The reason the number of particles is reduced the more torches you add is because of the way you've set up the torches. You've used a "pool" of particles that are shared between all torches on the map. If you want the same number of particles on each torch then you need to change your torch definitions to use a generator per object.

Doomsday's model renderer is very fast, I doubt it is the models that are causing the fps issues.

As I mentioned it's the use of dynamic lights for large scale map lighting that is causing the slowdown.

Thats a good one with the torches, yes I use one definition.

I don’t know how the engine does things ( then I must read the source and that is not my hobby ). But what I see by the astec level, when I started with the jungle ( starting point ) and it was finisch, the FPS was minimal 45. When the level was finish then de FPS in the jungle was dropped to 17.

Is there a way to avoid that ?
In a modern game you can seal of rooms to say what the engine must render.

Regards.

deathbringer said:

If doing an airport you could just use sector lighting up to 255 for the exterior area, and big models for the planes. This would be especially good if the player couldnt go outside, then you'd only need to model the parts of the planes that could be seen from the windows, and the other side could just be flat, to save on polygons. Also, you wouldnt get burning torches in an airport, heh

Yes I know the tricks for polygons, it is just like Hollywood only build the front site.

I hope the aliens don’t bring torches with them.

Greetings.

sitters said:

Is there a way to avoid that ?
In a modern game you can seal of rooms to say what the engine must render.

You can block the visibility by making the map not a "straight line". If you have some high detail place with lots of stuff and the player enters the place from an another high detail place with lots of stuff. Just don't do that then. Make these two places be linked with a corridor that is shaped like an L or something like that.

Most lag would be in the corner of the L then. Don't place much or any monsters in that area. Allow the player enter the new area before encountering hostile forces.

Lots of visible lines makes the engine slow down too. I made this one map with 8150 lines and it lagged even when models, dynamic lights and particles were disabled. It had this large outdoors area and you could see from one corner to the other side of the map.

Thats a good one with the torches, yes I use one definition.

You need to change it from a "Mobj" type generator to a "State" type generator. See the wiki for more info.

Like I said I don't think the number of models is the problem here. Doing a tricount in several spots around the map revealed that there wasn't THAT many polygons. Certainly nowhere near enough to trouble Doomsday or modern graphics cards.

Is there a way to avoid that ?
In a modern game you can seal of rooms to say what the engine must render.

That happens automatically. No portal brushes for example are needed. However as Jimi mentions the rules are the same as with most other engines, you need to design your maps in a way that doesn't cause the whole level to be rendered at the same time.

However I hear Skyjake has plans to add some fancy system of freezing the rendering lists and swapping out segments of the map to a dynamic list based on when the scenery changes (this would be a timed thing where by if no change occurs in X amount of time then the polys in the dynamic lists are moved back to the static list. This would dramatically increase the fps and Doomsday would then be able to render even the most complex maps at light speed. In theory anyway, none of this has been implemented yet...

Jimi said:

You can block the visibility by making the map not a "straight line". If you have some high detail place with lots of stuff and the player enters the place from an another high detail place with lots of stuff. Just don't do that then. Make these two places be linked with a corridor that is shaped like an L or something like that.

Most lag would be in the corner of the L then. Don't place much or any monsters in that area. Allow the player enter the new area before encountering hostile forces.

Lots of visible lines makes the engine slow down too. I made this one map with 8150 lines and it lagged even when models, dynamic lights and particles were disabled. It had this large outdoors area and you could see from one corner to the other side of the map.

Yeah that’s a idea , for going from room to room but when the new room has a door and when this is closed, the engine also stop rendering the backroom, also when the things are behind anything or out of seeing the camera the engine not rendering the stuff ( sorry for the bad gramma ) . I can see that, when I have a large model, it disappears in the corner of my screen or when it is behind a small wall it also disappears what results in coming and go of the models.

And I think that the opengl driver can be optimized, Risen3d is rendering much faster than doomsday and works with more linedefs before its going to lag.

I have play a level with doomsday ( no dynamic lightning and models ) for testing, and I have 8 FPS and with risen3D I have full 75 FPS.

I have no pretentious to duck into the source, but the port doomsday port can be optimized, and where speed is the problem, they can use assembler routines or in the first place a very good C compiler.

DaniJ said:

I happen to be using a compiled from CVS version of Doomsday atm that has an early WIP BIAS implementation. As a test I replaced all your dynamic lights in Hell Released with new BIAS sources and I get a rock solid 85fps. So things are looking good for the future if you want to make larger levels with more advanced lighting.

BTW it is my understanding that Doomsday will convert dynamic lights to BIAS sources when they are large enough so all your levels will get a massive speed boost once the next version of Doomsday is released.

I hope so, now the FPS are demanding me to stopped for making a bigger map. The only thing that buggers me is the FPS and the disappearing of the models when the camera thinks its out of sight and by a long distance the sprite is coming back.

by a long distance the sprite is coming back

You just need to increase the visibility limit of your 3D models.

Inside the Control Panel, click on the 'Objects' button, and then look over to the right side for the '3d model visibility limit' slider bar. I think by defualt it's set to 1500 map units (I've changed mine, so I'm not sure); just slide the bar to whatever distance you want.

If you do use this, it would be advisable to make a note of what you set it to in the readme of your next map, that way people will know what they need to set it to.

that way people will know what they need to set it to

Any options like that can be added to a response file which Doomsday will read on startup when prompted to do so. This allows you to configure the engine anyway you see fit for your mod.

However I would advise you tell people about this as currently the settings you change are permanent and are not set back to whatever the user had them set to before they ran your map. Just to let them know to backup their cfg.

That is something I'm looking at atm as it's a pain in the arse and Doomsday should handle that kind of thing.

I am glad the development of the doomsday port still is in full progress, be course for me it is still the greatest port of all the ports I have been tested. The only port I still will testing is vavoom, but I think ( what I read ) it is graphical not so good, and that’s what my hobby is graphical stuff.
Thanks Danij and Nuxius and other for the info, I can do something with that, in my next level.

Greetings.

Great job on the map. The only problem is that some parts are literally impassible. I still couldn't get through a door and the part with the ghouls floating in air that trap you when u go outside. I had to idclip to get past both parts to see the rest of the beauty.

Any options like that can be added to a response file which Doomsday will read on startup when prompted to do so. This allows you to configure the engine anyway you see fit for your mod.

Ahhhhh...... >_< *vomits*

Heh, I hope no one ever does that, as I have my Doomsday configured so it can run well on my PC.

That's why it's best just to tell the user what options you changed, that way they can decide between having the full graphical experience or having the highest FPS possible.

Nuxius said:

Ahhhhh...... >_< *vomits*

Heh, I hope no one ever does that, as I have my Doomsday configured so it can run well on my PC.

That's why it's best just to tell the user what options you changed, that way they can decide between having the full graphical experience or having the highest FPS possible.

I dont do that, I place a remark in the readme file just I did with this level.

Edit: Scopeles just walk fast between the right ghost and the lava then you can cross over.

That's why it's best just to tell the user what options you changed, that way they can decide between having the full graphical experience or having the highest FPS possible

As long as the map author puts his advised settings in the rsp file and gives users the choice to run it or not then that is fine. You don't HAVE to run a rsp file, it could be an option in your mod.

However they serve a VERY usefull purpose as (along with PK3) they remove all the hassle from a users point of view as they can simply drop the addon in /Auto and everything works and configures itself.

Some wads might require 3D models for example and a user might normally have them disabled or highres textures etc etc.

Ahh, O.K., so it's a seperate file, well that's fine then.

Anyway, I totally agree with you on making it as easy as possible for normal users (just as long as it doesn't take control away from more advanced users, that is).


Anyway, looking forward to whatever type of level you decide to try next, sitters.

DaniJ said:

As long as the map author puts his advised settings in the rsp file and gives users the choice to run it or not then that is fine. You don't HAVE to run a rsp file, it could be an option in your mod.

However they serve a VERY usefull purpose as (along with PK3) they remove all the hassle from a users point of view as they can simply drop the addon in /Auto and everything works and configures itself.

Some wads might require 3D models for example and a user might normally have them disabled or highres textures etc etc.

Yes as a add on, is a good choice

Edit: Nuxius : It must be a real life level, I thinking strong about a airport but that is a very much modeling level.

deathbringer said:

Hooray, comments on it in an hour, or somewhere around that, if i dont go and watch "Inseminoid" anyway

I see you read a lot from SA.

SA? San Andreas? Straight Acting? Supar Al33t?

Something Awful

deathbringer said:

Hooray, comments on it in an hour, or somewhere around that, if i dont go and watch "Inseminoid" anyway

NO DONT

Heh, it wasnt quite as bad as that review makes out, sure the bit where the woman gets her foot stuck was stupid, but if people in horror movies made intelligent decisions, they'd never die **. And actually it wasnt a ripoff of Alien,(they came out mere weeks apart) it just happened to rip off the same 50's B-movie that Alien did ("The Terror From Beyond Space!" if i remember correctly)

Could someone explain to me how to get this running? I don't see a pk3 file. I only see a "Data" and "Models" folder, and neither of them contain a pk3.

you must drop the complete file in the auto dir of doomsday.