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Monfriez
Green Marine


Posts: 32
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I was thinking about grouping all of the levels in shareware Doom into one big level. Though I still haven't built a successful map yet so it's going to be a while.
I always wanted to play a co-op game that didnít require the players to be in the same level.

Anyway has this been done?

Old Post 11-13-01 01:19 #
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Lich
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Holy crap.

Now that I think about it, that concept would be sorta cool.

My guess is that you'd be long long LONG out of the editing region or blockmap by the time you've strung together six or so of those maps. But I wouldn't think that the actual amount of vertices, linedefs and sectors wouldn't be a problem for a source port such as ZDoom to handle... It would just be the dimensional size that might be problematic to handle.

But then again, I dunno. Someone clue me in? Clue this guy in, too?

Old Post 11-13-01 02:16 #
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Espi
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Yeah, it's a good idea. They should fit in one map area, if I remember right the maximum dimensions of a map is 32768x32768, and most ep1 maps are something like 3000-5000 wide.

Old Post 11-13-01 12:47 #
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Zro
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Sounds intresting...
Other possibility would be to make a hub from those levels for Zdoom.

Old Post 11-13-01 15:43 #
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Monfriez
Green Marine


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Well it's good to know that (Z)Doom can handle this kand of map and that it will be well received. :)

Using a hub would be easier on me and the monsters, but it doesn't proved the co-op flexibility that I'm going for.

Old Post 11-13-01 21:56 #
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rf`
Dr. Nosign


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meh...
sounds cool
heh...
good luck
meh...

oh just do it already!

Old Post 11-14-01 01:42 #
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magikal
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Sounds very good.Cor!.....now what would be the easiest and quickest way to do that? I don't know enough about editing YET!....

Old Post 11-14-01 01:48 #
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GooberMan
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Quickest and easiest would probably be an editor that lets you copy and paste stuff (DeepSea comes to mind, but you'll have to register that as it has a map size limit).

Old Post 11-14-01 15:18 #
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DooMBoy
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I like the idea a lot. It would make the whole "stranded on a space base" storyline go better with the game, IMO.
Do hangars and toxin refineries really have "starts" and "exits" anyways?

Old Post 11-14-01 22:39 #
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Monfriez
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GooberMan makes a good point, other than DeepSea what other editors provide the kind of copy-and-pasting I'm trying to do

Also should I proved a way to reach finished sections/levels without having to start back a the beginning if killed (in co-op)?
My plan was to proved transporters, in a room behind that door in e1m1, to each section that would be opened once that section is reached.

and should I allow keys form one section/level open the door of another?

Old Post 11-15-01 00:19 #
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GooberMan
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hmmm, the use of keys goes rather unnoticed in KDITD for me nowadays because I know my way through the stages backwards and as a result it's more like a robot playing KDITD than me...
You'll probably have to implement replacements for keys (example: where you'd find the red key in E1M2 just have a switch that permanetely opens the red door), and on the odd occasion give out a key.
And as for the teleport to various restarts... that would work easilly.
Another thing to consider is that you'll have to go through every single map and re-tag every sector and re-define every linedef that activates a tagged sector (although you've probably already thought of this). It will be time consuming, but it will be worth seeing if it's done.

Old Post 11-16-01 03:14 #
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DiSTuRBeD
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That's one helluva idea. And you can add some small hallways between the maps when it's needed... Youd get to see what's between the levels :D

If it's a way to take the key away from the player once he opens a door with it, that part'd be relatively easy methinks. It's a good idea anyway!

Old Post 11-22-01 13:40 #
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magikal
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Yup,best idea yet,for me the keys definitely need to be level connected so that the key only opens doors on that map and taking away the keys at the end of each sounds the easiest way to do this.Anybody any ideas?

Old Post 11-22-01 17:43 #
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Lazer
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Just thought I'd point this out. If I'm correct, the exit rooms are really elevators. And the switch is what activates them. The door you start outside of is the door back into the elevator.

Old Post 11-23-01 02:22 #
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EllipsusD
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Just thought I'd point this out. If I'm correct, the exit rooms are really elevators. And the switch is what activates them. The door you start outside of is the door back into the elevator.


Judging from the distances portrayed in the intermission screen, I would say that the doors to the beginning end ending of a level serve as a kind of airlock. If not for the lack of atmosphere (a pseudo-atmosphere could have been established), then for reasons of keeping the internal habitats as clean as possible.

The idea of merging all of the levels together reminds me in a way of Super Metroid. The subsections (Brinstar, Norfair, etc.) were contained in themselves, like the levels in Doom, but connected to one another by elevators/tunnels. I doubt elevators would work with Doom considering it is a bit more horizontally focussed than Metroid was, but the concept still remains. The maps of the Doom levels could not just be placed by one another - their shape was not designed with that in mind. In order to join all the levels there would either need to be a large outdoor area with the separate buildings in it or (more preferrably), the levels would need to be connected by branching tunnels or walkways.

Old Post 11-23-01 06:23 #
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EllipsusD
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Yup,best idea yet,for me the keys definitely need to be level connected so that the key only opens doors on that map and taking away the keys at the end of each sounds the easiest way to do this.Anybody any ideas?


Replace keys with computer switches that "unlock" all the doors of that color on that particular level. Just a thought.

Old Post 11-23-01 06:25 #
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DooMBoy
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Replace keys with computer switches that "unlock" all the doors of that color on that particular level. Just a thought.


Here's an even better idea. Why not get only one key of each color, and they could open up all the doors of their corresponding colors throughout the levels? That would make a lot more sense to me.

Old Post 11-24-01 00:32 #
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magikal
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Much simpler yeah but that would make playing certain parts of levels redundant because you would no longer need to get to the keys,true?

Old Post 11-24-01 02:29 #
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DooMBoy
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Well, hmmmmm, I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for bringing that up.
Well, maybe someone could add on to the levels where you have to search for keys.....
????

Old Post 11-25-01 20:52 #
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TheHighestTree
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This brings something to mind: Halls Of The Damned, the entrance...go back and look at it's position a bit closer, tell me if it makes any sense at all to you guys.

Old Post 12-02-01 04:41 #
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Ralphis`
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GooberMan makes a good point, other than DeepSea what other editors provide the kind of copy-and-pasting I'm trying to do


I did this with doom ep1 before. We did coop on it. It was cool. But, for some of the maps you need to cut sections out or make teleporters leading to seperate areas

Old Post 12-02-01 08:27 #
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Monfriez
Green Marine


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I did this with doom ep1 before. We did coop on it. It was cool. But, for some of the maps you need to cut sections out or make teleporters leading to seperate areas


cool

I plan to use zdoom's portals to make all the levels look connected and hopefully avoid cutting sections

Old Post 12-03-01 00:30 #
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pritch
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This sounds well hard to me, but I wish you luck! Forward planning is going to be the key, I'd sketch the seperate maps out first and figure where to put them, in order to keep to size limits and just to make it clean. I like the idea of all the maps being in one big atmosphere... with ZDoom it could be possible to create a Phobos surface, and change Phobos Anomaly to take advantage of that surface...

Old Post 12-03-01 19:52 #
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NiGHTMARE
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Size probably isn't really important; afterall, there are maps in Eternal Doom which are probably the size of all of E1 and E2 combined :)

Old Post 12-05-01 14:36 #
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Monfriez
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with ZDoom it could be possible to create a Phobos surface, and change Phobos Anomaly to take advantage of that surface...


I was thinking about that, though I'd probably run into a few complications


What was your idea for Phobos Anomaly?
Was it to remove the outer walls?

Old Post 12-06-01 05:55 #
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pritch
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Right, I've just thought about it!
When I originally posted I had the FSky1 texture from Phobos on my mind, which is still the best sky texture evr made, I think. You could create a matching floor texture, then use it has your main floor texture for the whole of the outside. Extend it as far as you can, but stick an impassable linedef in so th eplayer can't run right up to the end of the texture and 'look down' over the side. There are better ways, but that's the simplest.
And yes, as you know part of Phobos anomaly comes down to reveal the outside bit. In the original, that had outer walls for obvious reasons. You could tag those walls to the walls of the star-structure all as one so they all come down, revealing the outside of the whole environment (you couldn't not have walls in the first place as player could just go straight to the door at the end of Anomaly).
Now I'm a bit tired so I mayhave forgotten something here, but what do you think? Have you started yet?

Old Post 12-07-01 21:27 #
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Monfriez
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It's a good idea, I'll probably use it


I havenít started yet, I'm going to wait for winter brake

Old Post 12-11-01 19:57 #
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SaGa
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wauthor also does copy and paste. made a ctf map of doom2 map01 and just mirrored it so it resembled 2 bases :) im almost done with my ctf map pack

Old Post 12-14-01 02:35 #
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Wobbo
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get creative with the in-between sequences, there should be some wide open sections, some underground tunnels, some long lava boat trips, and some levels right next to each other

Old Post 12-31-01 06:19 #
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Fredrik


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get creative with the in-between sequences, there should be some wide open sections, some underground tunnels, some long lava boat trips, and some levels right next to each other
Phobos Anomaly Reborn?

Old Post 12-31-01 14:02 #
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