AvD

Steeveeo said:

only if you either a) start out with a poor quality MP3, or b) are compressing waaayy too far!

Standard CD quality MP3s are 128 kbps.

What? 128 kbps is hardly 'cd quality'. Anyway, awesome work Ed, this looks really good!

um, yeah, CD quality is 1411.2kbps, according to Redbook. I'd have to say 128kbps is a bit far off there.

128kb/s s more along the lines of Limewire quality.

Mindless Rambler said:

128kb/s s more along the lines of Limewire quality.

You can't spell "Limewire" without "Quality"!

Use3D said:

What? 128 kbps is hardly 'cd quality'. Anyway, awesome work Ed, this looks really good!

For MP3s I said! Wavs are uncompressed as we all (should) know! MP3s use the LAME MP3 codec to compress. Side by side, a 128kb MP3 sounds just about the same as a CD, hence CD Quality MP3.

Vorbis uses a similar compression format to ACC and MP3 to produce a good sounding, low size file.

Learn your formats people!

Steeveeo said:

For MP3s I said! Wavs are uncompressed as we all (should) know! MP3s use the LAME MP3 codec to compress. Side by side, a 128kb MP3 sounds just about the same as a CD, hence CD Quality MP3.

Vorbis uses a similar compression format to ACC and MP3 to produce a good sounding, low size file.

Learn your formats people!

You're assuming that all mp3s out there are encoded in Lame which is simply not true. 128 is actually pretty awful if it's not a variable bit rate.

true, but LAME seems to be the most popular, and would probably click with the most people. And since most anything that encodes MP3s do it using VBR, I thought that was pretty much a given....but apparently not...

Would it be a lot more work to release the HQ music as a seperate pwad? Others have done it for the bandwidth challenged and everyone was happy. I use the Doom64TC as an example, a small file for pots and a full music replacement that was 56megs.

Steeveeo said:

Side by side, a 128kb MP3 sounds just about the same as a CD, hence CD Quality MP3.

The only CD that sounds like a 128kb MP3 is a CD containing burned 128kb MP3s. Seriously, 128kb on an MP3 is shit. Even on VBR, 128kb won't often cut it.

Ed said:

Concept art

Wow, that really looks like a Demon Imp Arachnotron with slight Caco traits. Was your drawing based on them?

Well, 80MBs or not, but the screenshots look very promising nad the maps seem to be of high quality :) Good work man!

GGG said:

The only CD that sounds like a 128kb MP3 is a CD containing burned 128kb MP3s. Seriously, 128kb on an MP3 is shit. Even on VBR, 128kb won't often cut it.

What in the world are YOU using to encode MP3s?!

Highest quality MP3s are 320 kb, and there is very little, if any audio loss when encoded to 128 VBR. It would pretty much sound the exact same to the casual listener, but a few audio quality losses to the trained ear.

Again, what codec and program are you even using?

I normally use DBPoweramp for conversions and encoding with the LAME MP3 codec at VBR, I noticed almost no differences in quality...

Steeveeo said:
I normally use DBPoweramp for conversions and encoding with the LAME MP3 codec at VBR, I noticed almost no differences in quality...

Almost no differences, which means you heard some, which means it's not CD quality ;-)

On the other hand, LAME 3.97 w/--vbr-new -V 2 and maybe -V 3 should sound identical to nearly everyone under listening tests, but that's closer to 200kbps.

And this is Doom, so it doesn't have to sound great, just better than an OPL3...

192kbps VBR is the absolute minimum. Most of my encodings end up in the 224-256 range.

128kbps is terrible, VBR or no VBR.

If its not at least 256 its not on my hard drive. 128 sounds like shit always and everytime.

I have no idea what button I pushed then, because all I hear different from the full quality original are some very light audio pops when I push my headphones (giant noise cancellors at that*) right up against my ears firmly at a fairly loud volume, and yes, I DO test out my music that way.

Sure I wouldnt bring my music to a party because the bigass stereo speakers the DJ normally puts up amplifies every part of the song, even the flaws (even though they are slight), for that, nothing beats an uncompressed wave.

But for my Doom Wads, strictly 64 KBPS Vorbis OGG (which sound pretty much the same as 320 kbps MP3s when encoded by DBPoweramp)


*slightly lowder pops when NC is off, but only like by 15 DB, hardly a whisper louder

Steeveeo said:

nothing beats an uncompressed wave.

Except for FLAC.

Ah yes, almost forgot about that one....too bad I've never seen a player yet that has compatibility for it (or maybe Winamp did but I dont remember seeing it...)

Are these enough?


* Cross-Platform
o Audacity 1.3.2 Beta
o JUCE (cross-platform C++ toolkit that has embedded FLAC support)
o MPlayer
o Songbird
o Squeezebox
o The Core Pocket Media Player with flac plugin
o VLC media player

* Mac OS X
o Cog
o X Lossless Decoder

* Windows
o ALTools-based ALSong
o foobar2000
o iTunes after installing codec from Xiph
o JetAudio
o KSP Sound Player plugin included with normal install
o MediaMonkey
o MP3 Stream Editor plugin included with normal install
o Cockos REAPER Multitrack Recorder and Editor
o Renoise supports import and export from version 1.8
o Quintessential Player with flac plugin
o The KMPlayer
o TRAKTOR 3
o TRAKTOR Scratch
o TVersity, using ffdshow to transcode stream to WAV
o Winamp
o Windows Media Player and Media Player Classic with third-party plugin
o XMPlay

* Linux
o Audacious
o Banshee (music player)
o Baudline
o Cmus
o mpd
o ogg123 (if compiled against flac - ogg123 is part of the 'vorbis-tools' package)
o Xine

+ GNOME
o Rhythmbox

+ KDE
o Amarok

Well then...you know what? My brain doesnt fuction well at 11 PM at night, but insomnia has set in and I cant get to sleep...

Anyway, I musta been thinking about a different format than FLAC...cant remember which though...I just know I remember seeing it on a Wiki or somtm, but only there...

Owned.

11 PM mindrape! No fair!

1 AM ownage, I win.

hmm...now that I think about...

"Owned."

Put into MS Word comes up with the following:

"Owned." Sentence Fragment, consider rivising.

So by the way, You just got owned by Microsoft Word AND the English language! Hows that feel?

It feels like you are a loser because I use Linux and cannot be owned by Microsoft, hence my signature.

hmm... I was expecting a more harsh comeback, because you still got owned by the English language, that is which you cannot escape.

However, we have derailed this subject and must get it back on track, and I will be the one to do it!.....somehow...


My position still stands, when compiled right, 64kbps OGG (Vorbis) sounds almost exactly the same as 320 KBPS, which sounds exactly the same as a CD.

It does not matter how you compile it, 320 kb/s != 1411.2 kb/s.

Oh, and I was not owned by the English language. "Owned" was a statement in which it was understood I was referring to you.

The max compile rate on almost every single MP3 encoder AND the limit on every single MP3 player is 320kb. Produce a link to an MP3 player that supports 1411.2 kb/s and I shall consider myself owned, but if not, shut up about 1411.2!

EDIT: I just realized you edited your post, and I must say, your insults have no effect on me anymore, for you have been marked in my eyes as someone who drags stuff on for too long. The topic has been changed back to normal, stop going off topic!

The maximum compile rate is not the issue here, the fact that you insist 320kb/s = 1411.2kb/s is.

-edit-
What insults?

The fact that you are comparing two different bitrates from two different formats is like comparing apples to oranges. Its just not the same! Bitrates always vary between format, the subject thats supposedly going on right now is Sound Quality at lower bitrates. So WHAT if 320 kbps MP3s are not the same as 1411.2 kbps Wavs?! They sound the exact same!