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alterworldruler
Member


Posts: 505
Registered: 10-06


TheCupBoard, while i liked the first great bicycle mystery. I hated seconds one, it was tedious, boring, unbalanced, unfair even with 3 players on UV. What the hell man? You could have tried MUCH harder in gameplay department, i'm sorry to say but this wad sucks ass for it's suck-ass gameplay alone. I mean fucking hell, shooting shotgun at armored knights or any tough monster over and over is fucking tedious. if SSG was earlier, it could have made gameplay more fun because it's POS right now. Sorry to say but you BETTER TRY harder next time. Oh and hi, i gave it 2/5 on idgames.

Old Post 08-02-09 07:45 #
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EarthQuake
9.5 on the Richter!


Posts: 2747
Registered: 05-03



alterworldruler said:
TheCupBoard, while i liked the first great bicycle mystery. I hated seconds one, it was tedious, boring, unbalanced, unfair even with 3 players on UV. What the hell man? You could have tried MUCH harder in gameplay department, i'm sorry to say but this wad sucks ass for it's suck-ass gameplay alone. I mean fucking hell, shooting shotgun at armored knights or any tough monster over and over is fucking tedious. if SSG was earlier, it could have made gameplay more fun because it's POS right now. Sorry to say but you BETTER TRY harder next time. Oh and hi, i gave it 2/5 on idgames.


I don't even know what to say.

You're a fucking rude-ass jerk who needs to go vent your piss-ass frustrations somewhere else. You didn't achieve anything except flame Cupboard and Worst and all the work they put into this wad. Let's see you fucking make something better. If it's too hard or tedious, get some friends to play with (as it's intended for multiplayer) or get better. Just don't fucking cry to us because you suck too much to kill a couple of hell knights with a shotgun.

Old Post 08-02-09 07:54 #
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Do0minat0r
Loser


Posts: 161
Registered: 06-09


First of all, @TheCupboard: Note that I made some new posts on the previous page describing my overall feedback and suggestions on this wad and particularily on some of the harder levels.

Anyway, since Map20-23 seem to be big problems for many, and I've previously only covered 23, I decided to play Map20-22 from pistol starts. Here are my thoughts:

Map20: I found this map challenging but fair as long as you allow the other Barons nearby to give you considerable infighting help on the Cyberdemon. I assume that was intended considering that no weapon stronger than the SSG or Machine Gun is provided. If so, I don't see a need to redo the balance on this map.

Map21: I found enough ammo here as long as I use the berserk on the pink demons and allow some infighting in points, especially on the Cyberdemons at the end. But I had to use my SSG exclusively on the three Cyberdemons at the end, and while I found enough ammo to bring them down along with some infighting from the leftover other monsters, it is boring and repetitious to kill Cyberdemons with the SSG and only limited infighting help (unlike Map20). I'd suggest putting more rockets and/or cells in here, or not putting so many bosses at the end.

Map22: Had just enough ammo if I allow for plenty of infighting, particularily relying on the floating Barons (the ones that throw fire on the floor) to fight/burn up other monsters. Very tight map though.

I'll get around the 08, 14, and 29 (the only three other regular maps that you mentioned as the more challenging ones) next, and give my thoughts on whether I believe these are fair or not. I'll probably not bother with 31 and 32, since secret levels should be a good challenge anyway.

EDIT: Played Map08. It is a grinding battle, but it just takes patience; there are plenty of supplies despite only having a shotgun and machine gun, and also lots of infighting opportunities. I found it to be a fair battle throughout. The ending is really cool too. :)

Hope my feedback helps.

Last edited by Do0minat0r on 08-02-09 at 17:23

Old Post 08-02-09 16:36 #
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TheCupboard
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Posts: 322
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Do0minat0r, I seriously wish I'd had you help me with the beta-testing. You've really helped out a lot with your feedback. I'm really itching at this point to update this wad. :( I'm seeing that I placed some ammo on the difficult maps (like 25) which never shows up because it has the wrong flags. Your points have all been taken into account. :)

Old Post 08-02-09 17:46 #
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Do0minat0r
Loser


Posts: 161
Registered: 06-09



TheCupboard said:
Do0minat0r, I seriously wish I'd had you help me with the beta-testing. You've really helped out a lot with your feedback. I'm really itching at this point to update this wad. :( I'm seeing that I placed some ammo on the difficult maps (like 25) which never shows up because it has the wrong flags. Your points have all been taken into account. :)


Thanks, glad you appreciate my feedback. :)

Anyway, played Map14. It is an even more intense battle than Map08, but you once again have enough ammo and plenty of opportunity for infighting. With bullets of all kinds coming toward you at once, you really must keep moving at all costs and never stay still, and therefore this level really fits its title. And the idea of keeping Map14 visible from the start of Map15 was really cool. :)

EDIT: Played Map29. I found it fair throughout, no big problems with balance. But you once again require killing two Cybers with mainly weak weaponary and limited infight support. As I said before, you might want to consider giving some stronger ammunition to make the Cyber(s) battle more fun.

Anyway, that's all the hot spots you mentioned (besides the secret levels). I'll just make a quick note listing on how I think each map you mentioned, particularily regarding balance:

Map08: No real suggestions, good and fair fight map. Nice ending. :)

Map14: Same as Map08, this map really lives up to its name. :)

Map16: A bit more ammo, especially if you intend to make 100% kills doable (especially for the room with the falls, Revenants, and green Imps on the left and right). As I said, I had to just go ahead and simply avoid, not kill, all the monsters in that room besides the regular Imps at the bottom. The ammo's rather thight in the area leading up to that room too.

Map17: None, unless you intend to make the Cyberdemon killable (and allow 100% kills).

Map20: None, unless you intend to make the Cyber killable without using infighting (but it strongly looks like infighting was your intent here).

Map21: More strong ammo to make the Cybers at the end less tedious.

Map22: A little more ammo perhaps, so its not quite so unforgivingly tight.

Map23: Way more ammo and health, at least in the first half.

Map25: Way more ammo, at least in the area with the winged Barons and the tons of smaller monsters around it.

Map29: More strong ammo to make the Cybers at the beginning less tedious.

Additional suggestions: Don't make the player need to find the secret to lower the blue key on Map26. Put ending text after Map30 and don't wrap player back to Map01.

Still, assuming the other maps have no serious problems, I think this is a good megawad from what I've played of it so far. The first six maps, as I've already mentioned, were good, and I'm sure the other maps I haven't played (all besides the first six, 24, 26, 27, 30, and the non-secret ones you mentioned) are solid. And the funny plot is a nice twist. :) I'll note a suggested improvement if/when I find one, or you can choose to just consider my above suggestions and do the rerelease; it's your choice. But as I've said, I continue to think a rerelease would be appropriate, and happy you say you're itching to do one. But I'm also glad you appreciate my feedback and I hope you're willing to take my suggestions into accound. I'm happy to be able to feel like I'm helping you out. :)

Last edited by Do0minat0r on 08-02-09 at 18:54

Old Post 08-02-09 17:50 #
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Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7130
Registered: 01-03


This was causing some problems with the most recent ZDooms due to changes in DEHSUPP handling. Should be fixed in r1748 (GZDoom r407.) Please don't play with any other post 2.3.1 SVN builds.

Old Post 08-02-09 19:25 #
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udderdude
Senior Member


Posts: 1386
Registered: 04-02


I'm slated to review this for /newstuff, so I don't know if I should stick with the current version on idgames or wait for an update or something.

Old Post 08-02-09 20:23 #
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Do0minat0r
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Posts: 161
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udderdude said:
I'm slated to review this for /newstuff, so I don't know if I should stick with the current version on idgames or wait for an update or something.


With an update coming and all the changes, waiting may be the best course.

Last edited by Do0minat0r on 08-03-09 at 15:19

Old Post 08-02-09 21:00 #
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Do0minat0r
Loser


Posts: 161
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New version is out. Same url as before.

I've tried 23 and 25 and they are both playable in SP now. 23 is pretty hard first half, but not totally unfair anymore. Good job, TheCupboard!

P.S. How did you make sure that it didn't get TOO easy in coop? My best guess would be that you put flags on some items so that they only appear in SP, but I'm not sure. Is that what you did?

Old Post 08-03-09 15:19 #
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TheCupboard
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Posts: 322
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Yes, Do0minat0r is correct. This should be the final version, sorry for the update everyone. ;_; Just be sure to download from the Florida mirror as it is the only to have the updated version at the moment.

EDIT: It looks like most of the mirrors have the updated version now.

Last edited by TheCupboard on 08-03-09 at 23:44

Old Post 08-03-09 16:08 #
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