Doomworld Forums - Knee-Deep in KDiZD: R_DrawPlanes: visplane overflow (2069856505) New screens on p14

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Mike.Reiner
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At first I thought this was a big joke.. but damn, you guys are gonna try and push vanilla to the limit eh? hm...

This really does sound interesting... mmm... chocolate.

01-13-08 10:32 #

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kristus
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I approve of this... it makes me sneer...

Heh.

01-13-08 11:16 #

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printz
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I think it's damn serious... good luck with the (new) boss implementation, I hope it doesn't stop by the Baphoheads.

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01-13-08 12:20 #

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Naan
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There's way too much hype. I'm guessing everyone will bash it mindlessly when it'll be released.

Well, just like the origial KDiZD.

01-13-08 13:56 #

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YMB
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This is one of the most original ideas I've seen recently in the Doom community.

01-13-08 14:00 #

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myk
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Heh, I'm sure this will fun to play and well balanced in addition to amusing, given the mappers involved.

esselfortium said:
If you don't try saving, the wad will be 100% compatible with doom2.exe 1.9. Making it for doom2+ or another limit-removing port would defeat the point entirely. (Yes, extending the savegame limit in chocodoom is removing a limit, but there's no way around that without deleting half the maps. And it's possible to play without saving if you're enough of a purist to shun chocolate doom I guess.)

That should be fine. It's the way Espi's B2B ended up. Plus anyone can apply the Doom+ hack (or just the savegame hack from it) to Doom2, if they want.

esselfortium said:
You sure? I remember it only having one death animation, that was sort of a semi-gib. Either way, this one uses more frames for its deaths. No changes to its behavior, though, since the KDiZD one is the same as the Doom 2 one other than the sprites. :p

I don't clearly recall how the KDiZD sprite died normally (he probably fell apart like the original), but if want to be "purist" making the Chaingunner die backwards like the other zombies might make sense.

But more than that (or instead of that) I'd suggest reworking the brown dude's death. He dies like the marine, which looks too human and pain driven for a zombie.

01-13-08 14:02 #

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BoldEnglishman
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esselfortium said:
- 9 totally revamped great-looking, fun-to-play re-interpretations of the original KDiZD maps

Huh? There are 10 levels in the project not 9.

Hanger
Nuclear Plant
Toxin Refinery
Military Base
Command Control
Phobos Lab
Central Processing
Computer Station
Penultimate Evil
Phobos Anomaly

Plus, the KDiZD Chaingunner did fall backwards like a regular zombie. More specifically, he span around and fell forwards (but looking away). I take it the Hell Knight is just being left as is?

01-13-08 14:30 #

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printz
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myk said:
I'd suggest reworking the brown dude's death. He dies like the marine, which looks too human and pain driven for a zombie.

Why necessarily? Unlike the hardcore dead Troopers, the Rapid Fire ones have kept a bit of humanity left in them, which allows them to press fire and hasn't made them tear their vest as in pain. The reason Shotgunners and Chaingunners act stronger yet die like zombies is that the zombification applied to them was reserved to such ranks (sergeant, commando) and was more advanced, having fewer negative side effects.

Could be a tl;dr, so in short: just keep the RFT sprites as they are -- their monsters have kept some humanity to feel pain.

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01-13-08 16:17 #

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esselfortium
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BoldEnglishman said:

Huh? There are 10 levels in the project not 9.

Hanger
Nuclear Plant
Toxin Refinery
Military Base
Command Control
Phobos Lab
Central Processing
Computer Station
Penultimate Evil
Phobos Anomaly

Plus, the KDiZD Chaingunner did fall backwards like a regular zombie. More specifically, he span around and fell forwards (but looking away). I take it the Hell Knight is just being left as is?

At this point I'm not planning to do z1m10. 9 maps is ambitious enough already. The Hell Knight will probably be changed to the KDiZD one just for completeness and accuracy.

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01-13-08 17:09 #

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Kid Airbag
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L�t said:
<3

And just think, if you reworked map04 at the same rate you reworked these, Millennium would have been out last year! :O

What about the boss sprites

01-13-08 17:29 #

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Butts
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more screenshots!!!

im liking this a whole lot so far.

for colored lighting, how are you going to change the sprites color to match the light? also, for deep water, how would you slow down the player like he is wading/swimming through it? neither is necessary, but *******ely would be insane to pull off in vanilla doom.

01-13-08 17:31 #

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esselfortium
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Butts said:
more screenshots!!!

im liking this a whole lot so far.

for colored lighting, how are you going to change the sprites color to match the light? also, for deep water, how would you slow down the player like he is wading/swimming through it? neither is necessary, but *******ely would be insane to pull off in vanilla doom.

Won't be able to do those things, heh :P

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01-13-08 17:35 #

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dutch devil
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Looks interesting good luck with the project curious to see how it will turn out.

01-13-08 17:47 #

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brinks
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I do believe this amazing undertaking could indeed benefit all of mankind, therefore I am willing to lend any of my mapping skills to see this project reach completion!

01-13-08 17:55 #

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esselfortium
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brinks said:
I do believe this amazing undertaking could indeed benefit all of mankind, therefore I am willing to lend any of my mapping skills to see this project reach completion!

Awesome. I remember a while back you mentioned thinking about taking z1m6. Are you still interested in that, or do you want a different map?

EDIT:

I think it's damn serious... good luck with the (new) boss implementation, I hope it doesn't stop by the Baphoheads.

Heh

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01-13-08 18:05 #

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printz
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esselfortium said:
Heh

Exactly, I hope you're coming with a cool boss idea. Good luck with Z1M8 and all that it's worth...

I get it the Baphohead and the mystery boss thingtypes use Cyber's and Spider's slot (don't answer...)

I'm looking forward more for the map expansion, in that they'll be expanded even more and take much longer and be more diversified (not that they weren't before).

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01-13-08 18:15 #

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brinks
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esselfortium said:

Awesome. I remember a while back you mentioned thinking about taking z1m6. Are you still interested in that, or do you want a different map?

I'd like to do z1m7 instead. Those outdoor areas in z1m6 kinda put me off from even attempting it :p

01-13-08 18:24 #

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esselfortium
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brinks said:

I'd like to do z1m7 instead. Those outdoor areas in z1m6 kinda put me off from even attempting it :p

Tango claimed z1m7 last night. Maybe you can either collaborate on it or fight to the death or something. :p

printz said:
I'm looking forward more for the map expansion, in that they'll be expanded even more and take much longer and be more diversified (not that they weren't before).

I never said they would take longer. The more annoying of the key hunts and switch hunts will be simplified. With that said, though, some areas will be quite a bit different than their KDiZD counterparts, since there are certain things that can't really be done without looking like the world's grossest hack. :p

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01-13-08 18:28 #

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myk
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printz said:
just keep the RFT sprites as they are -- their monsters have kept some humanity to feel pain.

I quite doubt that was the intention. They're just like the other zombies; and nothing but that shallow detail making them "more human" fails. It disrupts the detailed differences the original sprites display.

Let's examine the original 3 zombies: The first is still spattered with the green slime that affected the human victim but retains some hair, the second is more powerful, and has lost its hair to the effects of the demonic substance, the third even more powerful (with an increased body mass, much like the demon is heavier than the imp), also bald, with evil red eyes, and more bloodthirsty. More demonic, less human.

01-13-08 18:45 #

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Enjay
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And here was me thinking the marines had just shaved their heads like... well, like marines really. ;)

As far as the code is concerned:

Imp Mass 100
Demon mass 400

Trooper Mass 100
Shotgunner Mass 100
Chaingunner Mass 100

Appearances can be deceptive. Maybe the Chaingunner has hollow bones or something. :)

01-13-08 18:54 #

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printz
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myk said:
The first is still spattered with the green slime....

Another possibility why RFTs grab their necks -- remaining reflexes. Been possessed recently or preserved or kept in sleep till player's coming (supposing it's a late level). Hah. That's why they act like that.

To esselfortium: no significant expansion? But I thought it's generally fun to expand maps according to imagination!

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01-13-08 19:12 #

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myk
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printz said:
That's why they act like that.

You can make all sorts of explanations, but the best use of the sprites is to create quick and effective visual impressions. What I noted can be evidenced in the game in a simple fashion while what you're saying is a contrived rationalization around the inconsistency I pointed out.

But I thought it's generally fun to expand maps according to imagination!

Hell yeah, I'm sure all VPO and sudden program termination fans agree.

01-13-08 19:35 #

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esselfortium
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printz said:
Another possibility why RFTs grab their necks -- remaining reflexes. Been possessed recently or preserved or kept in sleep till player's coming (supposing it's a late level). Hah. That's why they act like that.

To esselfortium: no significant expansion? But I thought it's generally fun to expand maps according to imagination!

KDiZD maps are long enough for me already, thanks :(

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01-13-08 19:43 #

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L�t
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Kid Airbag said:
What about the boss sprites

Not part of hub1 :(

01-13-08 19:49 #

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printz
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myk said:
while what you're saying is a contrived rationalization around the inconsistency I pointed out.

...or a different view to yours, end of story. esselfortium should decide. I continue to say they retain a bit of humanity, you continue to say they're exactly like the rest, nothing more. To everyone's own.

Hell yeah, I'm sure all VPO and sudden program termination fans agree.

Map expansion doesn't imply detailing which can VPO, so it's possible anytime, if however the player is warned not to save. Then it becomes important for the author to watch the monster/advantage scale, so as not to frustrate the ill-fated player. And detail can be happily deleted anytime, especially when a too big part of doomworld had wanted less detail in KDiZD itself.

Then again, one can plan to map something as much as one can, but plan to stop when the savegame limit is hit and doesn't want to sacrifice things (who'd want). This is the idea of expanding much, in "vanilla" Doom, after all.

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01-13-08 20:10 #

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esselfortium
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The Bottom Line�:

KDiKDiZD is for doom2.exe and/or chocolate doom.

It will be thoroughly playtested and will be fun to play.

Some parts of maps will be changed, some parts might be removed or shortened, and some parts might be replaced entirely.

KDiKDiZD will be good-looking, though it will of course use a much simpler style of detail and architecture than most of the areas in KDiZD.

The death frames of the rapid-firing trooper do not matter in the long run, let's all just get along :(

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01-13-08 20:16 #

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brinks
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esselfortium said:

Tango claimed z1m7 last night. Maybe you can either collaborate on it or fight to the death or something. :p

I'll leave it up to him to decide. I don't mind collaborating, but if he wants to do it solo that's cool with me. What other maps are open?

01-13-08 20:33 #

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esselfortium
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brinks said:

I'll leave it up to him to decide. I don't mind collaborating, but if he wants to do it solo that's cool with me. What other maps are open?

He says it doesn't matter to him, and he'll take whatever's open pretty much. If you want to collaborate, that'd be cool, but you can have z1m7 if you want it.

Currently open: z1m5, z1m6, z1m7, z1m8.

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01-13-08 20:36 #

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myk
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printz said:
...or a different view to yours,

More like and, my fellow doomer.

I continue to say they retain a bit of humanity, you continue to say they're exactly like the rest, nothing more.

And how could I forget, with your personal title and all!

Map expansion doesn't imply detailing which can VPO, so it's possible anytime, if however the player is warned not to save.

Perhaps, if you can separate sections consistently, which is not easy if and when various doors and such are opened. Also, if the blockmap gets too big the level will crash sooner or later (more sooner than later, in most cases).

esselfortium said:
The death frames of the rapid-firing trooper do not matter in the long run, let's all just get along :(

Quite true, it's just a detail, and if you leave it as it is, still just a characteristic acquired from KDiZD. Beyond the mere suggestion, I discussed the matter only to pinpoint some design essentials related to the game.

By the way, if you guys need additional testing support I could help. This is the kind of project I'm best with (due to hacking expertise, resource management experience, and love for the simple Doom format and its game play).

01-13-08 21:02 #

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