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Archvile78
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i nearly missed this update =o heh srsly good work again Death...nice screenies there.

Old Post 03-27-08 22:35 #
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Artillery
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Wow, the screenies look eerily similar to the original level. Which is no problem at all because the original was one of my favorites and probably one of the better designed maps. Since I couldn't have done this better I've no suggestions to add.

Looking forward to playing this.

Old Post 03-28-08 13:09 #
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Mechadon
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*twitch*

Ah, so awesome! Keep it up! Also I know I haven't done much in the way of giving you any feedback based off the screenshots...so here's something that may have some use to you. In the second screenshot of Map08, I think the concrete flat would look much better on the grey brick texture than the brown flat. Then again, it doesn't really matter as long as the map is fun...so feel free to ignore me :3

Old Post 03-28-08 15:51 #
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Death-Destiny
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Well, well, here goes; I've got a lot to say for this...

Update: The next level in Dark Plutonia is now essentially completed.
The map number for this one was 29, "Odyssey of Noise." That was city map that was tainted by Hell. It had a huge pit in it with a Cyb in the middle of it.

The DP version of the map,"One-Thousand Adversaries," attempts to make the hellish city theme a bit more pronounced, so it uses a combination of Human architecture and hell thoughout. There are two major points of interest that you should take note of about this map. The first is that the title isn't lying... the map actually has exactly 1000 enemies. You may or may not remember that at about the 8th update I mentioned that levels 31,32,and 29 would deviate from the quick-level ideology. 31 and 32 do because they're very hard, and this one does because it's very long. If you ever played a map like "For We Are Many" in CC3, it's kind of like that... intense, but not necessarily unmanagably difficult. I always liked the 1000+ enemy penultimate map, as there's something strangely satisfying about being the last one alive after it.

The other thing to notice is what the 2nd screenie reveals below. Why are there Afrits in DP? Good question and there are three reasons. The first is that they're freakin' sweet and all WADs should have Afrits in them. The second is that I wanted an extra challenge in the last true level (that is to say, the last level before the Icon of Sin.) The reason I was most interested in is that I wondered what Afrits would have done if they had been in Plutonia. For this reason, all the Afrit fights are of a different style than say Scythe2 in an attempt to re-create how they would perhaps be used in Plutonia design. Just for the record this is the only DP map with Afrits other than map30 (tentatively, of course.) Anyway, I realize that one main argument against Plutonia is that it had good gameplay, but it "lacks atmosphere" and does not "build up toward the end," so I wanted at least one level to appeal especially to that crowd. =)

One final thing I want to explain is why DP is for Boom-compatibility instead of the basic executable. While novelties like the wind and conveyors get most of the attention, the subtler things the Boom adds to the engine I think should be fundamentals of Doom design, so I don't map for lower than Boom compatbility as a matter of principle. But fear not, there will be no silly Boom novelties in DP (wind, conveyors, pools, etc.)

For anyone who cares about the actual mapping process, I doubled my 300 minutes to 600 since obviously a map of this size defies being mapped in 5 hours, but 600 minutes I'd say is still in speedmap territory for something of this calibur.

You want your screenies now, don't you? Fine, fine...: [Outdated]
This place is much more evil than it was in Plutonia. See how the demons helled the whole city this time? >=D
Sometimes I wonder if Afrits are just a teensy bit overpowered... I barely got this shot because that Cyb lasted all of about 10 seconds...
This is a good example of the concept of this map. It's obviously a city, but there are constant reminders that Hell rules this town. BTW, you'd better hope for your own good that you figure out how to get that Megasphere =P

I don't think I've mentioned this yet, but I don't want any midis used on multiple levels in DP. Since map17 used the same midi as map29, I'll use this for map29 instead, since it fits better anyway: http://files.filefront.com/MusicalR...;/fileinfo.html

And we can't forget this: 14/32, 44% completion. With the largest map out of the way, this just keeps getting easier.

Last edited by Death-Destiny on 04-13-08 at 07:04

Old Post 03-30-08 08:35 #
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K!r4
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The project is going to be more personnal, great ! :D
Nice screens, but... I don't know but the skys are strange looking :/

Old Post 03-30-08 08:46 #
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Archvile78
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OMG *faint* w00t Afrit in DP...will make it even harder ** also,personally,a lvl such as this one with non-stop fight deserve...a more catchy song...this one is too slow...and as for the screenies nice job again =)

Old Post 03-30-08 09:29 #
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Artillery
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Superb. I always thought map29 was good enough, but would've been better if they made just it a trifle more epic and dinamic. Well, this will be A LOT more epic and dinamic.

Though, I still hope the rest of the maps will be mostly true to original in size and difficulty, since I thought plutonia had the gameplay just right, not to tough but pacy, compact and tense.

By the way, another map I'd personaly like to see completely changed in every aspect is map28, since the original was *ACKPUAHPUKE*. Shitty design, boring gameplay, fugly as sin, bad theme, horrible texture set, looooooong ugly corridors, and totally misplaced as
pre-penultimate battle, WTF were they thinking?

Old Post 03-30-08 11:11 #
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printz
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Woah, so you are indeed using a city sky. I think the buildings contrast a bit too much with the red. I'd give them a dark red foggish tint.

And 1000 monsters is a lot, even for a monster-crammed map. Congrats.

If Afrits are liberally placed in Boom, which gives poor space for new attacks, then nothing should stop me from Afritting my possible Eternity maps. There won't be the ZDoom walking fire, no it won't, but something similar defenately will.

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Old Post 03-30-08 14:36 #
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esselfortium
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Looks good! I agree that the new skies are weird-looking, though.


printz said:
If Afrits are liberally placed in Boom, which gives poor space for new attacks, then nothing should stop me from Afritting my possible Eternity maps. There won't be the ZDoom walking fire, no it won't, but something similar defenately will.

You know EDF is pretty comparable to DECORATE, right? I haven't tried porting the Afrit (not yet, at least), but it should be doable...

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Old Post 03-30-08 16:59 #
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printz
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esselfortium said:
Looks good! I agree that the new skies are weird-looking, though.
And I'm still confident they only need a fog/darkness effect. It'd be a nice reuse of Doom2's supposedly not-so-liked static burning cityscape.



You know EDF is pretty comparable to DECORATE, right? I haven't tried porting the Afrit (not yet, at least), but it should be doable...

Yeah but with current capabilities, the Afrit, unless a boss (which ain't appropriate), will get hurt by his own fire in an EDF mod. Due to this, I'd make him spawn living flames instead.

Back on topic, well, whether the to-last maps are canon anymore, that's too debatable. I'd suggest keeping them big and not canon anymore, so that a new creation like DP keeps its novel stuff in, not censored.

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Old Post 03-30-08 18:02 #
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Death-Destiny
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Update: the next map in Dark Plutonia is now essentially complete. From the randomization box was the number 3, corresponding to the map "Aztec." This map must have featured two of the most cruel fights in Plutonia. The first is the red key fight, a small, nearly square room in which an arch-vile, 2 chaingunners, and a hell baron teleport in with you. The other is the point where a door closes behind you and an archvile appears and the place to run for cover leaves you facing a wall of chaingunners. Other points of interest were an invisible bridge (Cool!).

One of this map's main features was making a small number of enemies very lethal. DP's map, "Codex Quetzalcoatl," attampts to capture that same idea. (By the way, Quetzalcoatl is one of the Aztec gods, just like Huitzilopochtli from CC3 map20 =). The original map has no SSG (WTF!?!) or plasma weapons, and you people know the drill by now with DP maps, which makes the smaller monster number more deadly than it otherwise would be. This map came out a very good Plutonia emulation. Check it out. [Screenies Outdated]

I know it's not as interesting as the revealation that Afrits would be making a brief appearance, but still a solid-looking map:
This map gave me an excuse to use that mudfall again. =)
No SSG or Plasma weapons, but these should at least help you out, if you don't die retreiving them...
Poor doomguy. I bet he wishes he has the SSG right now.

And now we're at 15/32, 47% completion. Wow, when did the percentage get so high? Works for me ^.^

Last edited by Death-Destiny on 04-15-08 at 22:18

Old Post 04-02-08 07:40 #
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printz
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Abattoire has a much worse encounter: lots of chaingunners and revenants, no cover, little health and high reliance on the blur artifact (which is a good job). Due to no cover (but offset by the presence of blur) even Death-Destiny may not like it (from what he said in an earlier post).

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Old Post 04-02-08 09:36 #
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Tango
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I think I've already told you that you're a pretty awesome mapper

Old Post 04-02-08 15:31 #
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Archvile78
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lol...i should try the real Plutonia before trying DP...im so gonna get wasted often **


Once again great pics Death

Old Post 04-03-08 19:58 #
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Doom Marine
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This project is definitely one of the one I'm waiting for, I hope it's co-op tested!

PS: What is your Afrit's stats?

Old Post 04-03-08 20:13 #
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gggmork
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Abattoire is easier if you save that invulnerability to use on the 'circle of death' end. Also, don't enter the circle of death immediately. You can kill all those chaingunners with rocket launcher splash damage from the safety of the first room.

Old Post 04-05-08 21:12 #
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printz
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If the DP maps stray enough from the originals (ie not to look like replicas), if Death-Destiny doesn't give up (by this time he shouldn't) and finishes it and if the maps are fair by quality, then it would be a blast how a project involving an entire team and started years ago was outrun by a recently started one-man project...

Oh, I should shut up. There's still long until all 32 maps are done. Lots of work and motivation to keep in...

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Old Post 04-05-08 23:09 #
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Death-Destiny
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I picked 30, so I've got a lot to say about it...

Update: The next map in Dark Plutonia is now essentially completed. I re-created map30, "The Gate of Hell." This was obviously the Icon of Sin map. This version had two arch-viles near the beginning in "Phobos Anomaly" style capsules. There was a Cyb in front of the Icon and the lift was prepared by an S1 linedef action raising it 32 units.

DP's Icon of Sin map, "The End Damnation", tried to keep the spirit of Plutonia's original while it had to be otherwise unique. I don't know how many of you have designed Boss Spawner maps, but the number of bad ones you might have play should illustrate that they're tough to make well.

There are two choices to make. The first is how to kill the Icon. Either it involves fire rockets from a moving location (usually a lift) or shooting from a fixed location, reached by activating switchs/getting keys if the switch itself doesn't kill it. The second choice to make is how many spawn cubes should be fired per shot.

The best Icon maps I've play all had lifts (AV, HR, Plutonia...), so DP's does too. Without a moving firing position, the map just plays like a regular map with an exit switch, except that you get to avoid all the enemies since you can't kill them all. The number of cubes fired is important. Two few and the enemies are no threat. Too many plays like HR2 where they're spawned so much faster than you can even kill them that you die if you don't win within a few minutes. In my opinion, the best one's are like AV were you're in no immediate danger, but where there will eventually be an incentive to fight.

Anyway, "The End Damnation" seems fair and engaging in any case. Here are the screenies: [Outdated]
Here's the Icon. This is not an easy map. See all these Megaspheres. They're not gifts...
The gameplay of this map is centered around these numbered switches, but you'll have to wait to see what they're for. Also, the spawn cubes shoot to these Wooden pentagrams... so you know where to stand if you want to get telefragged. =P
This is the lone fight prior to facing the Icon. Hell yeah does map30 has Afrits!

On a side note, this maps design is closer to that of the Deathmatch area of Plutonia's original, since I though it looked better than the main part of the map. The 500 minute time limit hasn't been a problem since map29 where I had to double it.

On a more irrelavent side note, Plutonia maps 29 and 30 were the only ones with Hellish elements. Hell-theme is my favorite, but sadly this is all the Hell-theme DP will have.

Adressing Doom Marines comment, I've implemented co-op specific items and enemies in every map, and I don't plan to add all that stuff without testing it. Also, the Afrits have almost exactly the same stats as Scythe2 Afrits (2500HP, shoots 6 Mancubus fireballs + 3 revenant fireballs...) I think the only thing that's different is that DP's has the Jog-in-place movement before being awakened and progresses through movement frames the same speed as Barons. I thought the default speed made them look like they were struggling to fly through jell-O... or something? =S

Yeah, so --> 16/32, 50% COMPLETION. THIS WAD IS HALFWAY FINISHED!!! THIS WAD IS HALFWAY FINISHED!!! THIS WAD IS HALFWAY FINISHED!!! =D

Just for the record, this means it's time for the quarterly polishing/fine-tuning, so no more maps 'til next weekend. Come now, patience is a virtue. ;)

Last edited by Death-Destiny on 04-21-08 at 07:33

Old Post 04-06-08 04:09 #
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Mechadon
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Keep going keep going! http://i.somethingawful.com/images/emot-dance.gif

Old Post 04-06-08 04:11 #
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Lizardcommando
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Dang, I can't believe you're already halfway done with this thing. Keep going man! I can't wait to play this.

Old Post 04-06-08 04:21 #
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gggmork
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you should upload a temporary completely nonofficial first set of 1/4 or 1/2, cuz I'm bored.

Old Post 04-06-08 07:02 #
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printz
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NO.


Death-Destiny said:
Also, the Afrits have almost exactly the same stats as Scythe2 Afrits (2500HP, shoots 6 Mancubus fireballs + 3 revenant fireballs...)

Aren't they overpowered, with 2500 HP? Almost like the Spiderdemon. Well, the afrits in the Monster Resource Wad only have 800 HP, which I think is fine, because it's only a bit less than what Barons have, and I don't think Barons should be usurped from their nonbigboss hitpoint supremacy. And 800 is more accurate for a monster this size.

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Old Post 04-06-08 07:30 #
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K!r4
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The Afrit is supposed to be really, really scary :P
And I think that many guys who are waiting Dark Plutonia have enjoyed afrits from scythe 2 and Deus Vult 2, so it can be disappointing for them if they have only 800HP...

Old Post 04-06-08 09:11 #
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Artillery
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Personally, I'd go with 800 hp afrits. Afrit was originaly meant to be tough and threatening monster, because of it's ability to wreak a great havoc, not because of it's persistence. Kinda like Archviles and Pain Elementals, the faster you kill, the better for you.

As for the DP progress: Rock on! This is one of the rare projects I'm genuinely excited about.

Old Post 04-06-08 09:51 #
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K!r4
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1500/1800HP maybe, but 800 is too low imo...
Anyway, nice progress Death Destiny :-)

Old Post 04-06-08 11:42 #
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Mechadon
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Yea, I would think 2500 is a tad much too; I agree with the 1500-1800 range or maybe slightly lower. No lower than 1000 though.

Old Post 04-06-08 12:35 #
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Death-Destiny
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gggmork said:
you should upload a temporary completely nonofficial first set of 1/4 or 1/2, cuz I'm bored.

NO. DP is a 32 level mapset, not a 16 level mapset. You can wait another 1-2 months.

As for the Afrits, I didn't like the 800HP DECORATE Afrits really at all. Without their "Fire-carpets," they were practically wimpier than Hell Barons. They *WILL* have more HP than Hell Barons. Like K!r4 said, Afrits are supposed to be formidable. The reason I put Afrits into DP was to maintain field presence in a battle since, unlike Barons, they *ARE* a major threat because of their sheer display of destructive power. They weren't intended to be something to pick of first in a fight.

To be fair, I was concerned that the default HP was too high and had every intention of lowering it, but decided to test it first. However, when I playtested map29, I was pleasantly surprised to notice that it's longevity actually played very well. The gameplay was designed with their high HP in mind and the amount of time they live seems pretty natural.

Ultimately, that final decision will be made during Beta-testing once we have a better idea of how their life total relates to DP's gameplay. If it changes, it will probably end up about 1900, so as to take 10 SSG hits, but no less. =)

Last edited by Death-Destiny on 04-06-08 at 16:59

Old Post 04-06-08 16:51 #
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Vegeta
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Any chance for an alternate version free of Afrits, just classic monsters?

Old Post 04-06-08 17:40 #
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printz
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What, are you afraid of battling Afrits?

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Old Post 04-06-08 17:55 #
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Death-Destiny
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Vegeta said:
Any chance for an alternate version free of Afrits, just classic monsters?

Hell no!!! I'm not designing two alternate maps to replace 29 and 30 because you don't like Afrits. Lots of players love Afrits, and no one's forcing you to play the last two maps of DP. =/

Old Post 04-06-08 18:05 #
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