Whispers of Satan RELEASED!

gggmork said:

I've learned to accept, but still be perplexed by, human subjectivity mostly during the time when I was extremely into computer generated music. In fact, negative reviews by the majority almost became an GOOD sign that I would like something. The creme of the crop (er, in MY opinion) often doesn't get the highest democratic vote.
"What is popular is not always right, what is right is not always popular." People have different wants and skills etc.

It's not other people's subjectivity that bothers me. Obviously everyone has different tastes and everything, and that's cool. But it's the blatant rudeness that really disgusts me. For example, let's say someone played AV map29, "Fire Walk with Me," but they like maps with smaller enemies, and small enemy groups.

What they ought to say is:

"Hey, that's a nice map you've got there. It seems well designed to me, though it's not to my taste. I prefer maps with less hordes to slaughter."

But what they're almost gaurenteed to say in 2008 is:

"You're map is crap, you hooligan. Don't you know you should never put that many revenants together in one room. That's crappy and stupid. It makes me sick that you actually need the BFG on this map. Blah! Also, any map with more than one Cyb in it sux. In fact, you suck too. Just do us a favor and die so we don't have to see any more of your maps!!!"

It's almost like people think that hiding behind a screename or anonymous post gives them the right to disregard manners entirely. I don't know hardly anyone who would say something like that to your face, lest they be KO'd with one punch. It's almost like they went to college to get a degree in "Insulting and Bashing." People like that need to grow up and find something better to do than spew insults. Last I checked, a review was polite, intelligent, and attempts to be unbiased, like the first quote. However, the term "review" as well as "comments and criticism" seems to mean "bashing session" at this point in time.>=(

Heh heh, that's the internet for you. On one hand anonymity removes the identification that kharma is normally attached to. Thus people are freely allowed to defect with a clean (unknown) slate (kind of like playing microsoft internet spades where everyone's anonymous.. and so people frequently do rude stuff like bid 13 then log off (then again maybe that is caused by software bots programmed by people who hate microsoft..)).
But on the other hand I often like anonymity for the same reason; true opinions/ideas/etc can be expressed freely without social implications attached to the real world. And its indeed fun to be rude/mean on the internet simply because you can't do so in the real world (due to potential of KO punches..)
Probably the most logical incentive to creating something is making something you yourself like, and in that case only your opinion matters even if everyone else hates it. Another possible incentive is obtaining popularity/recognition, in which case you might be sacrificing your own creative ideals to appease others.
But if you tend to like AV, HR, slaughter maps, etc, then opinions of other similarly minded people who also like such maps would seem to carry much more relevant weight than people who don't.

We sometimes forget, as mappers, that we map for ourselves. If someone else likes it, great. If not, too bad.

As long as we are happy with our maps it really makes no difference if anyone else cares about them or not.

Personal attacks do suck but way to many people these days seem to have no manners. I really wish they would just stinking grown up. Karma does and will work if they take it to far.

Paul, be happy with your work, as many of us are, forget the pricks. Most of them have already forgotten about the many crappy things they have said, and to whom they have even said them.

Searcher said the truth. Really guys it doesn't matter : read constructive criticisms and ignore bashing sessions.

Searcher said:

We sometimes forget, as mappers, that we map for ourselves. If someone else likes it, great. If not, too bad.

As long as we are happy with our maps it really makes no difference if anyone else cares about them or not.

Personal attacks do suck but way to many people these days seem to have no manners. I really wish they would just stinking grown up. Karma does and will work if they take it to far.

Paul, be happy with your work, as many of us are, forget the pricks. Most of them have already forgotten about the many crappy things they have said, and to whom they have even said them.

Oh yeah I'm very proud of my work. I always will be.

Trolls are just that. Trolls. Something we dont have to take seriously. Paul, you know you're a truly excellent mapper, musician and artist, so I wouldn't worry much if I were you.

I think I've said it before, but I'll gladly say it again: WoS looks exactly like the kinda DooM I love! The screenshots look amazing!

Kudos to you for always having been there, Paul, you're a champ! :)

Chris Hansen said:

Trolls are just that. Trolls. Something we dont have to take seriously. Paul, you know you're a truly excellent mapper, musician and artist, so I wouldn't worry much if I were you.

I think I've said it before, but I'll gladly say it again: WoS looks exactly like the kinda DooM I love! The screenshots look amazing!

Kudos to you for always having been there, Paul, you're a champ! :)

Ditto.

But what they're almost gaurenteed to say in 2008 is:

"You're map is crap, you hooligan. Don't you know you should never put that many revenants together in one room. That's crappy and stupid. It makes me sick that you actually need the BFG on this map. Blah! Also, any map with more than one Cyb in it sux. In fact, you suck too. Just do us a favor and die so we don't have to see any more of your maps!!!"

It's almost like people think that hiding behind a screename or anonymous post gives them the right to disregard manners entirely. I don't know hardly anyone who would say something like that to your face, lest they be KO'd with one punch. It's almost like they went to college to get a degree in "Insulting and Bashing." People like that need to grow up and find something better to do than spew insults. Last I checked, a review was polite, intelligent, and attempts to be unbiased, like the first quote. However, the term "review" as well as "comments and criticism" seems to mean "bashing session" at this point in time.>=( [/B]

Main reason why i do not post my maps <_< i would accept criticism...but there is a limit.

Death-Destiny said:

Now, the community is dominated by perfectionists whose fun only comes from playing maps with dozens of unnecessary details, fantastic architecture, and mind-bogglingly amazing gameplay and people are so eager to break each other down.

Yeah, I guess I'm guilty of this. This is partly because I only came to the Doom community relatively late (only a few years ago). This left me with over ten years worth of player-made content that was brand new to me, so I had no reason to play anything aside from the best of the best. It's harder for me to appreciate maps now if I see ways in which they can be improved. I also hold my own work (in all media) to a very high standard so it's natural that I do the same for the work of others. I've noticed that I'm starting to get even more critical and less helpful - I guess I need to start trying to appreciate the mappers more than the maps.

Death-Destiny said:

It's not other people's subjectivity that bothers me. Obviously everyone has different tastes and everything, and that's cool. But it's the blatant rudeness that really disgusts me. For example, let's say someone played AV map29, "Fire Walk with Me," but they like maps with smaller enemies, and small enemy groups.

What they ought to say is:

"Hey, that's a nice map you've got there. It seems well designed to me, though it's not to my taste. I prefer maps with less hordes to slaughter."

But what they're almost gaurenteed to say in 2008 is:

"You're map is crap, you hooligan. Don't you know you should never put that many revenants together in one room. That's crappy and stupid. It makes me sick that you actually need the BFG on this map. Blah! Also, any map with more than one Cyb in it sux. In fact, you suck too. Just do us a favor and die so we don't have to see any more of your maps!!!"

It's almost like people think that hiding behind a screename or anonymous post gives them the right to disregard manners entirely. I don't know hardly anyone who would say something like that to your face, lest they be KO'd with one punch. It's almost like they went to college to get a degree in "Insulting and Bashing." People like that need to grow up and find something better to do than spew insults. Last I checked, a review was polite, intelligent, and attempts to be unbiased, like the first quote. However, the term "review" as well as "comments and criticism" seems to mean "bashing session" at this point in time.>=(

How very true what you've said DD. Mr. Corfiatis, if you really do retire from mapping, at least you'll be remembered for all the hard work and time you've put into making the maps, and those two things I've listed count the most. Also the fun the mapper has when making it is a good thing too.

the iron hitman said:

How very true what you've said DD. Mr. Corfiatis, if you really do retire from mapping, at least you'll be remembered for all the hard work and time you've put into making the maps, and those two things I've listed count the most. Also the fun the mapper has when making it is a good thing too.

QFT...after all the great work you and the people who helped you did..we cannot possibly forget you.

Anyway, we'll move on from this subject and concentrate more about the WOS project. I'm about to start work on MAP18, and I allready sort of have an idea of what I'm going to make. I'm planning of naming the map "FEAR" since its going to be a dark map with unexpected surprises. But the name and all that stuff isn't a garuntee.

Creaphis said:

Yeah, I guess I'm guilty of this. This is partly because I only came to the Doom community relatively late (only a few years ago). This left me with over ten years worth of player-made content that was brand new to me, so I had no reason to play anything aside from the best of the best. It's harder for me to appreciate maps now if I see ways in which they can be improved. I also hold my own work (in all media) to a very high standard so it's natural that I do the same for the work of others. I've noticed that I'm starting to get even more critical and less helpful - I guess I need to start trying to appreciate the mappers more than the maps.

It's close to myself, Creaphis. Though since few months I start to appreciate some 'underground' maps which are very interesting.

Anyway, I haven't checked the WOS website yet but I guess the end isn't so far away, good luck with that Paul and Kristian !

Wow, I've been playing Bella, very creative and excellent quality (sometimes surprising to look at the map and see how architectually minimal it actually is). I'll probably be playing all those wads on your site.

The project is alive and well. Map18 is in progress now. Kristian is now finished with his exams and will start working on Map15 very soon.

good. progress is nice. still looking forward to this.

same here keep up the good work guys.

I make dm maps and after awhile I get burnt out on ideas. I take a break. Sometimes up to a year, then come back to it. You'll get new ideas after taking time off. And when you do, you will feel the calling to build again--and you will feel it to be unnatural to resist that calling. Definitely don't let that decision be based on the negativity newbies or what have you....

Peoples standards are just too fucking high these days. I used to have high standards but at this point i put up with anything that's playable.

Hellbent said:

I make dm maps and after awhile I get burnt out on ideas. I take a break. Sometimes up to a year, then come back to it. You'll get new ideas after taking time off. And when you do, you will feel the calling to build again--and you will feel it to be unnatural to resist that calling. Definitely don't let that decision be based on the negativity newbies or what have you....

Honestly I'm moving on after WOS is completed and I'm not changing that descison. I will also contribute a map for Cchest4 as well which I will start on next month.

I've also just uploaded a map named Techician's Base for Doom 1 (E2M1) with a more classic approach - http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/?id=15319 - I made the map last year but didn't upload it because of the fear of uncharacastic review abuse but decided to darken and detail it up a bit. Its a small, rather blocky and simple map, compatible with Vanilla Doom engine.

Nobody has to worry because if you are expecting any more jokewads from me because its highly unlikely going to happen. I started working on The New Adventure 2, 7 maps completed but decided to axe the project. Its all about concentrating on the serious stuff, the fight for your life against Hellspawn.

Progress on MAP18 is coming along nicely. I've still got to work on a few major areas.

Map18 has over 2,200 lines now and is coming along nicely. Will post some screenshots soon.

I like your broken window in the second screen :)

Death-Destiny said:

Outside of my contributions to community projects, I don't upload anything to the archive because that's just asking to be insulted, dissed, and broken down regardless of the quality of your work.

If I were you, I'd upload every level I made that I thought be worthy and correct by copyrights, just so my foes would hate seeing my nickname everywhere and hopefully quit Doom because of me. Besides, it's not bad to go to another guy's computer, want to play some of your own levels, and go right to /idgames to obtain them (rather than from a typical, upload website).

Same applies to pcorf, who wants to put an end to his Doom hobbies. I may understand why; mapping is still a big time-taking effort (even if lovely) and RL jobs are coming to take over; but it's no sign anywhere that major websites and serious reviewers are panning pcorf's newstuff, on the floors.

Chris Hansen said:
Trolls are just that. Trolls. Something we dont have to take seriously.

True, especially because doing so encourages them to continue.

Yeah damn, all has been said about this problem of "bad comments"...
I'm glad that pcorf has stoped to be took by this stupid debate to focuse on his work...

Anyway, is there a continuity between the maps ? I mean, the themes change like that like in AV or have you a progression of style map per map (just out of curiosity) ?

I hope the progression is techbase/stone+brick/hell for e1/e2/e3. At least that's what it looks like for the screenies. That was always one of my favorite progressions and it gets a good mix of styles involved. =)

Death-Destiny said:

I hope the progression is techbase/stone+brick/hell for e1/e2/e3. At least that's what it looks like for the screenies. That was always one of my favorite progressions and it gets a good mix of styles involved. =)

Progression follows as:

Map01-11
A mixture of Earthbase with basic medieval later on.

Map12-15
More plutonia like

Map16-20
Hexen Plutonia mix, with some ice and frozen areas

Map21-25
Lower Hell

Map26-30
Deep Hell

Map 31-32
?????????

Difficulty is about equal to Doom 2 for example. No Hell Revealed style maps here, sorry.

Cool about the difficulty, these days I'm bored of ultra hard maps (even if I'll replay them in the future for sure).

pcorf said:

No Hell Revealed style maps here, sorry.

That's fine with me - I don't enjoy being beaten to a pulp. Love the screenshots.