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ler
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No deadline, really. It's been impossible to impose a deadline. I think "when it's done" is a much more realistic date.

Old Post 04-28-09 23:50 #
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Torn
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Well, people what is going on? I think it is about time to do a checkup on people, as it seems like people have forgot about this (maybe including myself :/).

Old Post 05-09-09 21:01 #
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ler
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Really, I keep doing those and no one DOES anything. I can try as much as possible but it's up to the map makers to get it done. I'm hoping for a surge of interest after school's out.

Old Post 05-09-09 21:58 #
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rf`
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ler said:
Really, I keep doing those and no one DOES anything. I can try as much as possible but it's up to the map makers to get it done. I'm hoping for a surge of interest after school's out.

How much is actually finished?

Old Post 05-09-09 23:19 #
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Lord_Z
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Since I am able to use Heretic+ properly now, I have play tested through all of the completed maps in episode 1 and 2 and I am about half way through episode 3. For the most part the maps are great but each of them have a couple of small issues (misaligned textures and such). I don't know if the original authors would be willing to fix them up but I guess we could do it for them if that is required. Unfortunately there are a couple maps that are just not good and probably should not be included in their current state. I should have a full report written down within a few days.

Old Post 05-10-09 01:16 #
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ler
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I'll be anxiously awaiting that report, for sure.

Old Post 05-10-09 03:05 #
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alterworldruler
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Question for ler, should i remake E5M1? Since it's current state is bad in a lot of ways imo. This could serve as a training before i start mapping for HPack (Don't worry about that)

Old Post 05-10-09 07:37 #
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ler
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I'll leave that up to you, alter. It's your map.

Old Post 05-10-09 10:06 #
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kaiser_wilhelm
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I need people to help me lighten up my map. I am having trouble making it the right light for people :(

Old Post 05-13-09 09:01 #
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printz
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Well, I never care about others' monitors; I get inspiration from id's maps at most. So for me interiors get 144 or 160 lightness, exteriors 176 (or 192/208 if shiny day), dark closets 112 or 128. I only put 255 next to strong electric lights or blinding plasma (never as sunlight -- it looks newbish) and less than 112 for surprising pitch-black traps.

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Old Post 05-13-09 09:29 #
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BlazingPhoenix
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Yeah, I quit. Sorry. :(

Old Post 05-13-09 20:58 #
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Torn
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printz said:
Well, I never care about others' monitors; I get inspiration from id's maps at most. So for me interiors get 144 or 160 lightness, exteriors 176 (or 192/208 if shiny day), dark closets 112 or 128. I only put 255 next to strong electric lights or blinding plasma (never as sunlight -- it looks newbish) and less than 112 for surprising pitch-black traps.


Pretty much the same as me. Id used 224 for the outside for the doom games. I am not really sure what raven used. I will check

Old Post 05-14-09 16:15 #
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alterworldruler
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E5M1 is being remade. the map will be still loosely based on original. Remember the start when you came out of marble-like section? Here it is, in remade glory!

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/Kaiseroo/GZDoom2009-05-2015-08-43-14.jpg

C'mon guys, let's move our asses and do this project!

Old Post 05-20-09 15:42 #
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printz
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Ooo, classic. I like the water-sky reflection. Keep in mind you can have it at three episodes; wasn't the 5-episode extension just a measure for backups?

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Old Post 05-20-09 18:14 #
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alterworldruler
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printz said:
Ooo, classic. I like the water-sky reflection. Keep in mind you can have it at three episodes; wasn't the 5-episode extension just a measure for backups?
PM'd Ler about this and suggested what we should do with missing/inactive people (those ignore projects despite reminding them). If there's a need, i'll switch my map slot to E2M7 then.

Old Post 05-20-09 18:24 #
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ler
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Just so you know, we have 29 maps. That means we'd have to leave out 2 if we did the 3 episode thing. We might be able to come to a conclusion for who to drop but I'd feel iffy about it. Still, I don't see 7 maps being completed any time soon. Do we have any suggestions for who to drop, if we do? I'd rather the person themselves say whether or not their map could be dropped.

Old Post 05-20-09 20:35 #
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kaiser_wilhelm
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I've been making progress...

I am just wondering if we're still using heretic + or can we use zdoom. I could use both, although one of the effects I use I donthink is compatible with heretic + as it would cause the Tutti Fruttie effect. Don't drop me. I am still working on mine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/anotherdayanotherdeath/Screenshot_Heretic_20090520_131126.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/anotherdayanotherdeath/Screenshot_Heretic_20090520_131138.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/anotherdayanotherdeath/Screenshot_Heretic_20090520_131209.png

I added that whole last tower area in the last screenshot last night!

Old Post 05-20-09 21:16 #
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ler
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Please read the top of the first post.

Old Post 05-20-09 21:36 #
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printz
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ler said:
Just so you know, we have 29 maps.
If only Heretic had only 3 episodes and/or there were 28 maps not 29... you could have filled the then-E4M1 bonus slot rightaway and be ready to do the finishing move and release the levels! (I'm already active in another Heretic community project right now sorry :| )

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Old Post 05-20-09 22:00 #
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Vermil
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ler said:
Just so you know, we have 29 maps. That means we'd have to leave out 2 if we did the 3 episode thing. We might be able to come to a conclusion for who to drop but I'd feel iffy about it. Still, I don't see 7 maps being completed any time soon. Do we have any suggestions for who to drop, if we do? I'd rather the person themselves say whether or not their map could be dropped.


Or you might be able to make shorter episodes by forcing the player through the secret maps.

For instance on episode 1, you could go; E1M1, E1M2, E1M9, E1M7 E1M8.

Personally, I still hope the final release get's turned in actual episodes rather than a series of isolated maps. But I was voted down on that last time I brought it up :p

Old Post 05-20-09 22:04 #
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Lord_Z
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@ler: I have sent a PM regarding the tested maps.

Old Post 05-22-09 03:08 #
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alterworldruler
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I'm slowly progressing with my map, however be warned, it will be "Hell Revealed" hard for Heretic. I barely have any chance against 5 Iron Liches at the start ;) though there's a lot of space to move in hahah

Old Post 05-22-09 08:39 #
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printz
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alterworldruler said:
it will be "Hell Revealed" hard for Heretic.
Oh dear. Now add Black Plague difficulty where even two weredragons may be lethal.

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Old Post 05-22-09 13:25 #
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t.v.
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Just so you know, we have 29 maps. That means we'd have to leave out 2 if we did the 3 episode thing. We might be able to come to a conclusion for who to drop but I'd feel iffy about it. Still, I don't see 7 maps being completed any time soon. Do we have any suggestions for who to drop, if we do? I'd rather the person themselves say whether or not their map could be dropped.

I would advice setting a deadline.

After the deadline you release the finished maps. That way people are forced to work on their maps. If they don't finish it before the deadline, they probably never really intended to finish them anyway. There has been plenty of time and it will take plenty of time if people finish it on their own speed. A little push can work miracles :-)

You can always release an add-on with more episodes afterwards; just like Raven did for the original Heretic.

Old Post 05-22-09 19:26 #
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ler
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Well, we've got a nice summer to go. Come August 1st we're going to put the finishing touches on the finished maps.

Old Post 05-22-09 20:19 #
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Lord_Z
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Dreadopp and I have successfully tested the first three episodes of finished maps and put together this report. For the most part the levels were very good and I hope to test the rest this weekend on Heretic+ but we'll see what happens.

E1M1 (gold2.wad) - The door track texture on the traps in the starting room don't quite look right. They seem out of place.
- The traps in the coffin room are the same way (Sectors 71 and 75).
- In Heretic+, the map lags really badly when you shoot therefore is not playable.
- The tracks on the gate leading toward a cave are not pegged properly.
- The teleporter out here is unaligned.
- There was nothing in Sector 259 which is a secret room.
- This map is not finished anyway so these bugs still have a good chance to be fixed.

E1M2 - The door and window in the Dragon Claw secret are misaligned.
- The exit room door tracks were misaligned (Sector 77).
- This map seemed to have a tiny lack of ammo, perhaps a few minor pickups could be added?

E1M3 - The sky is garbled looking outside the starting area in Heretic+ (I don't think this is a map or resource bug as much as a flaw with how Heretic+ displays the Sky textures at that angle).

E1M5 - The mossy stuff near the south tower are misaligned. This is true for both sides. (Can't remember the exact location of these misalignments).
- At the north side of the castle, the switches are not aligned. (linedefs 7021 and 6980)
- The first ledge with the Undead Warriors is not aligned properly. I'm pretty sure most of the ledges have similar problems.
- The staircase directly west of the western most green key door is misaligned (linedef 3266).
- It is possible to walk around the bars blocking the path in the north cave (Sector 1115).
- (Sectors 1184 and 1185) contain misaligned walls. The switch in this room is also not hittable in Heretic+. It's too high up the wall.
- The two teleporters just after this do not lower in Heretic+. When the sector effect is changed to effect 23, they work just fine.
- The top-right house in the center of the map is misaligned on the inside (Sector 30).
- The bottom-left house in the center of the map is misaligned on the inside (Sector 74).
- The switch at the two Maulotaurs is not aligned with the rest of the pillar (Linedef 5978 I think).

E1M7 - Walking in sector 643 cause Heretic+ to crash (unknown sector special 72).
- Linedef 2827 causes the whole map to turn into a HOM in Heretic+.

E1M8 - I would say that this map needs to be check thoroughly for misalignments because there are a lot of them.
- The house near the green key door is not aligned (Sector 75).
- The actual green key room needs some aligning.
- The whole starting room seems rather bare.
- The empty rooms in the house that requires a yellow key could use some extra decorations and/or items.
- The room after the Iron Lich's is also a bit bare.

E1M9 - Is there an exit on one of the earlier maps that allows the player to get here?
- The Undead Warrior on the lift just west of the hall in the middle needs to be removed (sector 147). The lift does not activate with him on it in Heretic+.
- There was not enough ammo at the start. I was kinda stuck using my staff as a weapon.

E2M1 - This map does not any other major game play flaws but instead lacks detail.
- The whole map is visually boring and many of the rooms are randomly constructed and uninspired. Most of the rooms seem rather jagged.
- Texturing could use some work too

E2M3 - This map is the same as E3M2
- I am not sure where CodeniumRed's map is.

E2M5 - The two windows near the start (sectors 71 and 81) could use some aligning.
- Most of the lifts in the rocky/mine area could use some aligning.
- The blood in the final tunnel does not animate (Might be just a Heretic+ thing).

E2M6 - Outside the first room, there are supports that have misaligned supports (Sectors 369 and 374).
- The chain texture at the secret clips into the ground (linedef 3617).

E2M8 - There is a Doom Builder start present
- The elevator leading down to the hall of windows (Sector 39) is misaligned
- The walls inside the alcoves with the windows are not aligned with the main hall
- The items in the alcoves need to be moved forward because they do not lower with the elevators they are on
- When the wizards appear here, there is a HOM effect in the windows. I think creating a wall to prevent the player from looking out properly could fix this problem. Also, these windows do not need to open as far as they do.
- IMO, All the windows seem excessively tall
- One side of each of the doors at Sectors 103 and 151 are too tall
- The switches seem a little high but its not a big deal (Sectors 361, 804, 288 and 289)
- Sector 303 should be raised to match the rest of the ceiling decor in that room
- The switches at linedefs 4230 and 4294 lower nearby sectors in Heretic+. I have no clue why but all sub-sectors in sectors 805 and 788 lower with the switch even though they are not tagged to.
- Sectors 815, 816, 799 and 798 could be pillars instead of just raised floors
- Jumping into sector 211 crashes Heretic+. This may happen because it's linedefs are not tagged at all.
- Linedef 1329 and 1342 are not tagged either and cause the whole map to implode.
This is as far as I could get because of the previous flaw.

E2M9 - If you grab the wings in Sector 64, you can skip a large portion of the map by flying to Sector 194 but this looks intentional
- Ammo is a bit short for the first third of the map.
- Similarly to E2M1, this map does not have any other major game play flaws but hugely lacks detail.
- The whole map is visually boring and many of the rooms are randomly constructed and uninspired
- The wall textures repeat too much but none of the rooms need to be as big as they are anyway.

E3M2 - This map is the same as E2M3.
- Most of the ceilings in this map are a little plain. Some decorations would make it look better.

E3M3 - Most of the switches on this level are a little high up for the player. They can be pushed, but I don't think they should be so high.
- How come there is a door that requires the blue inside the blue key door? Seems kind of redundant.
- Sectors 748, 746, 744 are pretty pointless traps. The enemies a flagged wrong in the editor causing none of them to show up.
- The Tomb of Power in the yellow key room can be picked up without opening the actual secret.
- There is an Iron Lich that got stuck on top of a switch in the room with the green key (Sector 917).

E3M4 - This map is just a giant HOM in Heretic+ as well as Doom Builder's 3D mode. I have no clue why this has happened.
- Other than that it plays fine.

E3M6 - The black trimming going around the building where the green key is seems to stop abruptly when it reaches a platform (Sector 243).
- The Firemace doesn't seem to show up in Heretic+. I thought I fixed that...

E3M7 - The big groups of enemies on this map really slow down game play.
- This map is a giant HOM in Heretic+ as well as Doom Builder's 3D mode.
- The room that is mostly blue could use some wall and ceiling decorations (Sector 25).
- There wasn't quite enough ammo to beat the Maulotaur. I had to beat it with my staff. Maybe putting some more ammo in Sector 171 could help.

E3M8 - The Tome of power in Sector 150 is flagged for multiplayer by mistake.

E3M9 - Is there an exit on one of the earlier maps that allows the player to get here?
- The first windows are HOMs in Heretic+.
- In the "void" area with the switch that lowers the blue key (Sector 245), maybe add some walls to the outside area and make the wooden floor impassible.
- The "void" is also a HOM in Heretic+.
- Should merge all the bars that need a blue key to be opened so they open at the same time.

RESOURCE - These textures are garbled in Heretic+ (looks like it happens when they are repeated):
- METL3B
- METLSPG2
- TMBSTON2
- METLTINY
- WOODBRDG
- MARBSUG1
- METLSPH0
- BANNERE
- METLSPG1
- METLSPG0
- GRNBLOK4
- MOSSRCKE
- METLTIN4
- METLSPH3
- ORNGRAY

Some of these things are personal opinions so it's up to the mapper whether to make those changes. Thought I should point them out anyway.

Last edited by Lord_Z on 05-31-09 at 13:01

Old Post 05-23-09 03:12 #
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printz
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Lord_Z said:

- In Heretic+, the map lags really badly when you shoot therefore is not playable.

That's because people keep ignoring the REJECT lump thinking that it's useless. But it's not! Thing about the players using DOSBox or a very high-end port configuration, which consume at least as much relative power as Heretic was doing in its release days.

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Old Post 05-23-09 06:29 #
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Aldaraia
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Hellooo fellow mappers and the like, I haven't been here in a while due to studying my ass off for finals and now that the school year is finally over I can continue on my map. I'm glad to see I still have my map slot as well! Sounds like its time to get back to work on my meaty map, I will be listening to lots of Dream Theater while I map, since music seems to help inspire me add even more innovations into the map, hopefully...

Hmm...for some unusual reason I find that I'm not very excited about summer and my days go on in pattern, and I depend on you guys to keep my summer fresh and exciting. What should I do? *besides the map of course :P*

EDIT: Well, the maps look amazing guys, I'm very envious of you guys! But it gives me inspiration to work harder on my map, sadly a test version is still not available, I plan on NOT using a stock Heretic midi file for the map, instead...I will use a song from an Ultima game, to sum it all up in one word: ominous. I can't wait to tackle this megawad, man...45 maps to play, that's quite a bit.

Last edited by Aldaraia on 05-31-09 at 08:54

Old Post 05-31-09 08:47 #
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Torn
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Lord_Z said:
Dreadopp and I have successfully tested the first three episodes of finished maps and put together this report. For the most part the levels were very good and I hope to test the rest this weekend on Heretic+ but we'll see what happens.

E1M1 - The door track texture on the traps in the starting room don't quite look right. They seem out of place.
- The traps in the coffin room are the same way (Sectors 71 and 75).
- In Heretic+, the map lags really badly when you shoot therefore is not playable.
- The tracks on the gate leading toward a cave are not pegged properly.
- The teleporter out here is unaligned.
- There was nothing in Sector 259 which is a secret room.
- This map is not finished anyway so these bugs still have a good chance to be fixed.



Is that my map? It doesn't sound like that. You are sure it isn't alterz' map you were testing?


CodenniumRed said:
Okay, played through E1M1 and I like it so far. There's a few pointers and nitpicks I have, however:

- The switch elevator doesn't work properly - it raises properly, but than when you lower it you go below the original floor level! And, you can only raise / lower it once.

Also at the beginning, due to the spacing of the bars you can fight all of the gargoyles without them even harming you.

Everything else is just visual. I felt that the outdoor areas were WAY too bright, while the darkest areas were WAY too dark. Texture choices were decent - I like the brown theme but there are better textures to use for the ending archway than recolored floor / ceiling textures....



I will look into it. I guess I am probably gonna remake it anyway, it is not like it is the largest map ever. :P

Old Post 05-31-09 10:57 #
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Torn
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Oh well, fucked up in the quoting. :P

Old Post 05-31-09 10:59 #
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