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Liberation
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Posts: 350
Registered: 09-00

A while back i asked to be put on the list for making a map, however i have had a break from doom edting these last couple of months. im happy to make a level still and ill start today.

Last edited by Liberation on 05-05-08 at 12:02

05-05-08 11:25 #

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Artillery
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Posts: 129
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Great! Pick a slot so you can be put on the list. Good to see some Torn's mappers getting back to the project.

05-05-08 12:10 #

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Liberation
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Ok ill pick e1m4, i feel like making s shortish map anyway.

05-05-08 15:07 #

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alterworldruler
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Posts: 209
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Sorry, no progress on E2M2 yet, i'm busy working on a Doom 1 megawad, may touch E2M2 tomorrow a bit :)

05-05-08 20:07 #

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magicsofa
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Did you update that other map?

If you really want someone to add detail I actually wouldn't mind doing it.

05-05-08 20:32 #

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Artillery
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I started some work on e2m9, but that's it for the next few days or maybe over a week, until then, the progress is on halt. I'm very busy, so right now the most valuable thing I have is a good picture in my mind on how it's supposed to look. After the dust sets in I'll continue my work on it, but first things must come first.

One thing is for sure: It'll eventually get finished.

EDIT: I, too, tested the afterworldruler's e1m1. I think it's a fitting first map, but I'd replace those golems on the hill with nitrogolems, since this way, they're pretty innocous. I also think lighting needs work, some areas didn't look good simply because they were too bright, and the lighting was too primitive. It's a tiny bit of work which can make a big difference.

Last edited by Artillery on 05-05-08 at 20:54

05-05-08 20:49 #

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Lord_Z
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Posts: 207
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The hardest part for me is getting started on a new map, but I was able to get a good foot hold, so it should be done in a couple days.

I think alerworldruler's E1M1 could use a bit more variety in enemies. The Heretic E1M1 map had some Undead Warriors on it and I think maybe one or two would help with diversity. I agree with changing some of the lighting as well. It would not be hard to change these things and as Artillery said, it can go a long way.

05-05-08 22:12 #

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magicsofa
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Artillery said:
It's a tiny bit of work which can make a big difference.

That's why if he refuses to do it, I will :)

05-05-08 23:51 #

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Snarboo
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Posts: 1096
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My map is going good so far. I'd say it's less than half completed right now. It's an outdoor map with a small river that runs through parts of it and a bog with a keep in it. I'm still thinking about new areas to add.

05-05-08 23:53 #

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magicsofa
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Random question - is the maulotaur supposed to travel off cliffs?

05-06-08 00:23 #

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magicsofa
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I replaced my maulotaur with an iron lich...

So my map is basically completed, but I'd like some feedback. I haven't implemented difficulty settings yet, and I might add some areas or secrets, but the basic idea is there.

Here it is:
http://www.nowupload.com/:oHe

05-06-08 03:54 #

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Lord_Z
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That is pretty tricky piece of work you have there. It was very well done though, it looked good and played good. I did not notice any bugs except that it might be a bit dark. I was able to beat just fine but maybe someone else will be able to share their opinion on the lighting. One other small thing was the switch for the Lich at the end does not show activation but it does lower the walls, I'm not sure why that would be though. All in all, great work.

05-06-08 07:09 #

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Dreadopp
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Posts: 156
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You have a pretty good map there, magicsofa. There was only a couple of problems that i found.

At the start, I kept running out of ammo after those golems came in. I did not know how to get into that secret up at the start. You might want to put a little bit more ammo for the wand around that area. Also, the overall map might be just a bit too dark, like Lord_Z said. Some people might get a bit frustrated trying to figure out where they are and where they are going. I was having this problem.

Other than those problems, nice work. :)

05-06-08 07:15 #

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Artillery
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Just a quick answer (since I can't resist trying out others maps). Magicsofa, since your map already got comments, I'll simply agree with what the above two posts said. Some parts are a little dark, but otherwise it's a great map. Somehow, while playing it my strong association was: Quake! The map is totally quakey. And it's pretty tough, hehe. And it just shows how important it is to have good textures to work with, miracles can be achieved with arcitecture. I loved the green cave.

If this order stays, your e2m5 will make my e2m6 look like stupid patchwork. I'll really have to work hard to make e2m9 a real good map.

So far, I think magicsofa's and Lord_Z's contributions turned out best, but that's just me.

05-06-08 09:08 #

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magicsofa
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Thanks for all the feedback guys!

I was also thinking about the lighting the whole time, I'll certainly bump it up in a few places (it's easy for me not to notice since I already knew the layout)

I knew the beginning might be a problem. There are crystal geodes -inside- the gargoyle traps, forcing you to do some dancing to get to them. I will probably move them, or at least split it up so some ammo is outside to begin with. As far as the secret goes, well, it's not supposed to be a secret! There is a platform in that first room which lowers when you step on it. This lowers the bars at the beginning. I intended for this to be a simple puzzle, but an obvious one. Now I am torn - I don't want to just give the items to the player without having to do anything, nor do I want it to be overlooked by the majority of players. I thought it was still pretty obvious (if a mapper shows you some stuff, he probably wants you to try and get it!). However, maybe I could do something like put a crack in the ground which runs up to the bars? I'll think about it...

Funny thing about that last switch, when I was testing even I got confused, and stood there getting hurt trying to flip it...I'll see if I can find the problem.

@Artillery: Don't worry, the whole TC will probably resemble patchwork anyway. :)

05-06-08 15:51 #

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Artillery
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Magicsofa, whatever you do, crank up the damn lighting in the darkest parts of caves. The darkness drove me mad, it was literally pitch-black on my monitor, I just give up in frustration and noclipped to see the whole layout. A few minutes ago, I finished the map first time, but with saving. It's a common thing to misjudge lighting and make it too dark, because the whole texture pallette is slightly darker than doom's.

05-06-08 16:07 #

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alterworldruler
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magicsofa said:
Did you update that other map?

If you really want someone to add detail I actually wouldn't mind doing it.

Why not, go ahead... i'm far too busy with my Doom 1 megawad, sign me out of E2M2, sorry :P i can test maps but not make them

05-06-08 19:00 #

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ler
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Posts: 209
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Magicsofa I love the map a bunch. There's one problem compatibility wise: Heretic+ complains of a zimmer7 texture that isn't there. You might want to take a look for that.

05-06-08 20:16 #

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Liberation
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Ive made a good start might have some screenshots up in a couple of days.

05-06-08 21:03 #

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magicsofa
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Okay so I made a lot of changes here:

First off, technical problems. Those zimmer textures were on a line with no floor difference, because it was the last thing I set for doombuilder's defaults (Yes, I don't have any heretic default textures set). I figured out that the final switch was actually not a switch - the wall behind it had the special. Vermil also supplied me with some awesome nit-picking (much appreciated).

Secondly, I've changed some of the gameplay and lighting elements. I do think that 112 is a decent lower limit (the only darker hallway is punctuated with torches so deal with it :P). I think Artillery might need to turn his monitor up...

I also put deathmatch starts and items solely in the final room because I find it perfect for the purpose!

So yeah, here it is:

http://www.nowupload.com/:wMc

05-06-08 22:03 #

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The Ultimate DooMer
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magicsofa said:
Random question - is the maulotaur supposed to travel off cliffs?

Yes.

05-06-08 22:30 #

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gggmork
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I played a couple of the posted maps and enjoyed them.

Now that I think about it, heretic doesn't have any hitscanners. That and almost always having a backstock of healing potions makes the game easy. Doesn't have generating enemies either (equivalent to pain elemental's creating lost souls or arch viles raising dead)
Weredragons seem redundant, like nitrogolems without homing capability and sabreclaws are usually boring ammo drains. I don't like ophidians much either, like a downgraded arachnotron attack.
The main thing I like about the gameplay are the Disciples of D'Sparil (if all enemies are projectile-only, maybe more should have mancubus spread attacks like that), the iron lich and malotaur bosses, and the crossbow is a fun weapon. The inventory items are kinda fun but give you too much power/health whenever you want.

05-06-08 23:43 #

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kristus
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I've never experienced hit scanners as a hard opponent. peoplelike to complain about throngs of Chaingunners. But seriously. They like to complain about a lot of things.

It was a while since I played the first 3 episodes of Heretic. But seeing how they were made at the same time as Doom2, it's not surprising they're kind of easy. Like Doom, or Doom2. If you want hard, try the fourth episode.

05-06-08 23:51 #

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magicsofa
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I find that heretic's weapons are less powerful than those in doom, and especially the SSG. The crossbow effectually replaces the shotgun, etc, but there's no replacement for the BFG. Then again, the artifacts are pretty overpowered. I always have a slew of them when I play the original game because it wasn't challenging enough to force me into using them.

Another thing about hitscanners is that they can be really predictable. First off, they don't move while shooting. Secondly, with the exception of the arachnotron they have no ability to "prefire" you. What I mean is, a projectile monster throws a fireball, it might take a while to get there. Sometimes you pop out and immediately get one to the face - which happens a lot in heretic, what with undead warriors and ophidians.

In any case, having control over exactly what artifacts the players get is crucial for these maps to have any semblance of difficulty.

This topic makes me want to mod heretic and add hitscanners or some junk :)

05-07-08 01:16 #

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Creaphis
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See, this is what I meant a few pages ago when I was insisting that Heretic was easy. There are no hitscanners, so the question is whether you can dodge projectiles effectively or not, the game is rarely difficult enough to force you to use powerups, and you're always carrying health around. I'm not sure that I've ever needed to use a mystic urn - there are generally enough flasks and vials around.

Fortunately, we can resolve some of these issues now that we're making our own maps...

In my e2m4 I might level the playing field and never give the player his main hitscan weapon, the dragon claw. There's a lot of redundancy between the hellstaff, dragon claw and firemace anyway. Also, I want to force the player to use certain interesting powerup/weapon combinations - eg. tome and pheonix rod. And, to make the existing monsters more challenging, we can always add some fun teleport traps - I believe that there's only one in the official Heretic maps but we can add as many as we want. We could also avoid placing flasks entirely, so that the player never has health in his backpack, but I think it might actually be more interesting to only give the occasional flask and never any vials. Health management would be more deliberate.

05-07-08 06:43 #

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magicsofa
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I dont think dragon claw, hellstaff, and firemace are redundant at all. First of all, the firemace sucks. I hate it, and will only use it if I have no alternative (I'd rather use the wand!)

The hellstaff and dragonclaw are significantly different because the dragonclaw is weak and instant while the hellstaff is powerful but slow. The dragonclaw is truly the only effective sniping weapon.

It's not just that heretic doesn't have hitscanners - it doesn't have enemies with instantaneous attacks at all!

Anyway, when I submitted my first map I got complaints that there wasn't enough health, so obviously the game IS challenging to some people. I think that the limitations present just give mappers incentive to find creative ways of challenging the player.

05-07-08 17:38 #

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Snarboo
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I still use the mace given that it has its own ammo source and that when tomed it's insanely powerful. A tomed mace ball will kill all non-boss monsters in one hit, and I think they tunnel too. Still a disappointing final weapon, though.

In anycase, I haven't worked on my map too much since I last posted, but I'm going to crack it open and expand the bog area. :)

05-07-08 17:54 #

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Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments

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magicsofa said:
I dont think dragon claw, hellstaff, and firemace are redundant at all. First of all, the firemace sucks. I hate it, and will only use it if I have no alternative (I'd rather use the wand!)

That's what I mean. The firemace's regular attack is redundant because the dragon claw and hellstaff already provide better rapid-fire damage at all ranges.

05-07-08 18:37 #

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jobro
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Ok I take E4M4. Textures downloaded.

05-07-08 19:02 #

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Kirby
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Ah! I have an announcement!

It would seem my map is, in fact, on my desktop at home! It still has most of what I had done, and I think I can finish it if you guys want it. It was originally for E3M6, but I should be able to change that, since it looks like LordZ already took that slot.

Shall I finish it?

05-08-08 06:53 #

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Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > WADs & Mods > Heretic: Treasure Chest - Still Need E4 and E5 - Update Calls in Session!

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