New Map Ready to Go (the Bee Map)

Death-Destiny said:
There's just too much negative energy for me.

Most of which is in yourself. There are tons of people in this community with perfectly friendly dispositions who don't waste their time moaning over a few negative or trollish comments.

If like you say you don't edit for praise, then why are you so bitchy about some negative comments on the database? You may have the wish to not edit for praise, but do not seem to have the confidence to do it.

I'm guessing whoever uploaded your WAD without your permission did it on purpose for kicks, just to get your panties in a bunch, because he noticed it would work. If you act the way you are acting here, you become a veritable troll magnet.

The idgames admin (currently TeamTNT's Ty Halderman) has been independently managing the archive for years and years so people could host their add-ons in one easy to find and centralized place, and Linguica linked the database to it here on Doomworld to facilitate mirror access for easy download, to allow searching, and to let people comment freely so others could get a third party idea about what they are about to download. And what do you say? "Oh no, this sucks because there are negative comments... there is so much negativity here!"

I'm not trying to convince you to upload to /idgames. If you don't feel comfortable doing so, don't... yet, at least (you can always change your mind later). You might as well quit your ranting and your assumptions about negativity, though, because they fail it.

Listen to myk. He's like God. :D

The Holy Bible has one more page again today hehe :P

Don't worry about me... I've still got my sanity. It's just as much fun to be EXCESSIVELY EMPHATIC as it is to provoke it. =P

Anyways, this thread had been much more epic than I had intended, to say the least, and this scenario is making me even more confused. Even though I know I don't deserve the privilege, I have to ask you people to read just one more thing. To be honest, when I decided to quit, I did not expect there to be any objections (in fact I was expecting to be escorted to the door...) and so I did not plan to need my reputation intact for this, so please bear with me.

Moving on, ever since I quit like last weekend, a bunch have people have been telling me ever since that my work had been an inspiration to them and that they would miss my contributions. Still hearing that message after a week's time makes it clear that I still have a lot of good I could be doing. I can't just leave all these people in the middle of things. I did not expect to be able to make a positive impact on so many people in such a short time with so few creations.

What confused me into thinking that my contributions were meaningless was that for every positive thing people say here, there is an equally as negative thing elsewhere. How can my work be both "inspiring" and "terrible" at the same time? It just seems too great a difference even subjectively speaking. I find it difficult to simply ignore the negative things even if I don't agree with them. It seems to me that all opinions are nonetheless equally valid and that they still need credit, especially considering that I often ask people to consider controversial ideas. It just doesn't seem right to only accept opinions that I agree with (e.g. your work it great, etc.)

Since someone brought it up that I should simply change my mapping style to be more mainstream to avoid this, that's something I don't want to do. It would be an empty experience to sacrifice my own creativity to this end. I'd rather not map at all than map like this, which is the train-of-thought I was following to reach my decision. I'll probably still map on my own to preserve my style, but I'm stumped as to what to do with it, as the vibe I'm getting is that it's inspiring to a lot of people, but not something the mainstream community wants to see.

So anyway, I don't just want to walk out on anyone to whom my activity has been beneficial, but I just don't see where my ideas fit into the puzzle. I'm at a complete loss as of what to do at this point, so to anyone who can put up with me at this point, I'm all ears. I actually want to discuss this now. Because of the way I foolishly ruined my rep without even considering my choice may have been too hasty, I can understand if you want me gone and I'll pack my things, but if anyone still has any alternative suggestions, I have no ideas of how to proceed from here, so I'll try whatever you suggest, though I'd imagine the way I've been carrying on was a death sentence to my career anyway so I have no choice but to leave like I'd originally planned...

Any thoughts worth sharing?

People having mixed opinions about stuff is nothing new. It doesn't mean there's no place for something, just because some people don't enjoy it.

Some people love hard maps like Hell Revealed, some people (myself included) aren't a big fan of them because they either lack the needed level of skill or simply don't enjoy that style of play, and still others don't "get it" and think it's just a ton of difficult monsters haphazardly thrown into a level. And, to be fair, to someone who's not taking a close look at it, it can sometimes seem that way. Some people loved....uhhh....*thinks of controversial wad* KDiZD. That's a good example of a release that some people found amazing and inspirational and that other people absolutely hated, and for reasons completely unrelated to its difficulty. Some wads are (almost) universally loved, like Scythe 2 and Suspended in Dusk, but even those have people who for some reason or another don't like them. And that's okay.

While this thread has definitely been a huge dramabomb, I don't think anyone would hold it against you if you decided to come back and keep releasing maps, whether you want to release them here, on idgames, or elsewhere.

But with all that said, it's really great to know that we disgust you or whatever. If you can lose the attitude you'd be okay :P

Well, I can't vouch for the worthiness of my thoughts, but it's great that you seem to be feeling more relaxed about things now..

Anyway, I don't think you need to worry about being escorted to the door, since it seems that most of the posts in this thread have been protesting your withdrawal (some quite vehemently!).

I imagine that most people will want to see you finish Dark Plutonia, which sounds like a great idea as far as I'm concerned as well (as long as you have no objections, of course) :).

Oh, and if you can find time, I'd love to see more 1monster demos (or just demos in general).

I wanted to say something about the negative feedback your maps have been getting, but I think Esselfortium nailed it in his above post.

You don't have to be liked by everybody - not even by the majority - to fit into the puzzle. The tricky thing is figuring out which comments come from your audience and which don't. If someone hates your maps, then you might as well be showing your maps to your grandmother - they just aren't something that this person can appreciate. This makes these comments meaningless and ignorable. Of course, some criticism will also come from people who like maps of this style, but find flaws in your particular efforts. Its this criticism that you need to identify and attend to.

I was surprised to see that most comments on The Beesong were on a negative slant. So yeah, I dunno. Maybe uploading to /idgames isn't important - that really might not be your audience. Your levels still deserve permanence, though - they need to stay in the internet for good. Try to find a place you're willing to keep them.

How about just continuing to use this forum to share/etc as you have been (and maybe put less effort into side discussions like uploading to idgames if you don't want it to balloon into a side topic).
Human subjectivity can be perplexing, maybe because people only see the world trapped within their own individual neuron paths.
Say someone rates your map 2/5, I strongly suspect- based on how I've experienced music reviews- that if you played the maps THEY considered to be 5/5's you'd find THEIR ideal maps comparably sucky/too easy/etc, thus making you care about their review less since their paradigm of what makes maps good is so different.
For me, I find this wad more fun than maybe 100 other random wads because I enjoy challenge and so few wads come along that are this challenging (except obhack when tweaked right). Challenging maps often have a lot of replay value. I like the gameplay of the bees too. Gameplay takes much greater precedence for me than something like immersion in an environment. All the sprites could be plain solid color cylinders and I wouldn't really care if it played the same. And actually that could possibly lead to more creative gameplay.. because when you commit to something specific, like monsters, that limits the gameplay to what monsters would normally logically do. When they're abstract things like tetris shapes/etc, they can do anything.
'i don't deserve the privilege/ expecting to be escorted to the door/ etc'- I at least don't have any sort of negative connotations whatsoever for whatever that's worth, and just enjoyed/still am enjoying the map. If I can do it in 25:00 that would be awesome but I doubt it.

I wouldn't want you to go. You are a hero to me. Without your help, I wouldn't have started to take up making monsters and maps. Thank you for everything.

DD, soon I'll release a demo (11 maps) of a megawad I'm working on, the maps are EASY, don't hesitate to hate and bash it :P

Glad you finally want to revise your positions about all of this story.

Okay lesson one pay attention, this rule is very important:

You have only one person to please and thats yourself, as long as you map by that rule you should be fine.

End of lesson :P

Just so you know, I hate it when I can't find a wad on idgames. That is all.

You guys are amazing. I must say that I'm genuinely impressed at how forgiving you are. Anyways, since I'm being honest at this point, I have something else to say. The real reason I was going to quit is a reason of my own that's totally unrelated to this and is related to real life. In that respect, mapping was simply taking up large amounts of time that I didn't have compared against how little I believed they influenced the community at the time.

In any case, I believe that it's perfectly obvious that you guys don't really disgust me. Everything I've said other than my last post has been BS. The matter-of-fact way I normally type (like right now) is likely the only times that I'm being serious. Anyway, this thread served no purpose other than to make it difficult for me to return to mapping should I have second thoughts, like right now. Like I said already, I didn't expect many people to object, so I assumed I'd have quit for good at this point. Though the objections have proven that to be a bad move.

So anyway, if it makes you guys happy, I don't "quit." However, many of you may have noticed that I haven't touched DP in a while, compared to the "one map per two days" I was going on at the beginning. So, even though I don't quit, I can't gaurentee if there will be as many maps from me as before, considering my real life circumstances. I honestly think it would have been for the best had I convinced you guys that I'm a jackass and you'd have let me quit without missing me, but I guess I must have already proven that I'm not a jackass. =P

So anyway, I've got more work to do now. Within the current limitations of my situation, I'll do my best to get more maps finished. On a side note, I think my mind-game still worked too effectively even if it failed to convince enough people. Some people like gggmork have realized from the start that I wasn't serious with my pointed comments, but to those who believed them, I feel a need to apologize, especially to you Essel, since I think I made you especially mad.

K!r4: Fear not, I like hard maps the most, but I like easy maps as well. I won't have any issues with the difficulty. =)

Rl stuff comes before mapping the maps aren't going anywhere there is no rush.And why would anyone disgust you, I sure don't.You contribute maps to the community, thats what matters for me.So please keep mapping, release some stuff every now and then, take the good and the bad feedback.

Death-Destiny said:
It seems to me that all opinions are nonetheless equally valid and that they still need credit, especially considering that I often ask people to consider controversial ideas. It just doesn't seem right to only accept opinions that I agree with (e.g. your work it great, etc.)

That may be partly inspired by my post, as I pointed to the good comments and the value of the archive and database, but it was a reply to your "I quit" and your rants. Those replies were arguably giving much more credit to the negative stuff than the positive, and not equal or fair credit.

Negative feedback is usually either:

• A statement where the critic observes types of stuff he does not like: WADs with many monsters suck, or over-detailing is a sin.
  
• Finding defects in a concept that may be of interest: The layout and atmosphere are quite promising, but you need to fix the horribly unbalanced item placement.
  
• Trolling: Heya niggerjew, quit spewing shit all over the archive already. All you're doing is replicating over and over what your mom did; giving birth to retarded trash.
  
• A mix of the above.

The third type is best ignored, replied to with humor, or sometimes called on, and occasionally gets deleted anyway. The first doesn't mostly need to be addressed, as it's just a statement that the person found the WAD or whatever is not of the kinds he prefers. The second may be useful at the designer's discretion. The latter, complex replies that combine the three types of criticism, can simply be treated according to any of the previous characteristics.

Death-Destiny said:

So anyway, I've got more work to do now. Within the current limitations of my situation, I'll do my best to get more maps finished.

Real Life has an annoying habit of dragging us away from recreational pursuits. I'm hoping you'll continue mapping as and when time permits - sporadic bursts of intense activity probably still constitutes "speedmapping" - and while no-one's going to hold you to a release date for DP there'll be some long faces (myself included) around here if the project's abandoned.

So far as the /idgames database is concerned - I'd like to see the option to post comments restricted to forum members - if that's possible. Make life a little more difficult for the trolls.

esselfortium said:

If you can lose the attitude you'd be okay :P

Or you could try a new public approach like 'low-profile', since the current state of 'arrogant-loudmouth' is rubbing people the wrong way.

Ruba keeps pumping out maps (some ARE "entertaining" you have to admit) despite universally hate-filled reviews. Just another point to consider

Also Daniel got ONE bad review once and now despises doomworld and made a few attempts at reigniting the "war" with Newdoom, as well as making anti-doomworld or "lets kill reviewers!" messages in his secrets. Don't become another Daniel. (Though he IS a good mapper under it all)

deathbringer said:

Also Daniel got ONE bad review once and now despises doomworld and made a few attempts at reigniting the "war" with Newdoom, as well as making anti-doomworld or "lets kill reviewers!" messages in his secrets. Don't become another Daniel. (Though he IS a good mapper under it all)

Even if he's an idiot, yeah, he does make good maps and I don't get why there are so many people that think neodoom is crap.

Shit, this was really close but I didn't beat it, and think I might have done it in 25:00 (or at least could if I started bfg-ing the cybers sooner maybe). I even arch blasted over the wall to that ammo, but then I unexpectedly ran into a cyber that I completely forgot would be there due to going a different route previously and he screwed me up and made me rocket splash a bee in my face. All well, here it is in case I can't do better or give up:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/yj12gy
(zdoom 2.2.0)

This level alone made me increase in skill I think after trying so much. I went through a weird phase where I had a hyper frantic play style that probably looked much more entertaining, but maybe partly due to exhaustion started doing it more carefully like this demo which is maybe more boring to watch. If I did another demo it would probably look nearly identical (except beat it instead of die..) since I tend to tie to a memorized route for levels this hard anyway.

Hello,

 

Sorry for the blatant necroposting but I uploaded Beesong on idgames for conservation purposes. This map was on my hard disk for a long time.

It was downloadable from the old version of DSDA, which seems to be closed now.

>>>IDGAMES<<<

 

Some in-games screenshots for those interested :

 

 

Enjoy !