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JohnnyRancid
Forum Regular

Posts: 798
Registered: 08-07

I kinda feel like making a bunch of maps, but before I get started, I don't want to have to assume that everyone has the same tastes as me. So what do you guys like? What makes an ideal map? Megawads, Short Episodes, Single maps? List themes you like, difficulty, map sizes, whether you like new content such as textures, sprites, or soundfx, etc. List events in wads that you really liked, and traits some mappers tend to do that you despise.

07-31-08 06:15 #

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myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep

Posts: 10441
Registered: 04-02

I like maps by authors which have a strong sense of what they want to design, and the skill to pull it through effectively to create a fun and replayable experience. Generally, I prefer levels that generate fads and fashions over ones that merely follow them. If you make something really good, you won't have to worry about what people are generally playing, because some at least will start playing stuff like what you did because of what you did.

I like megawads, episodes, single levels, levels of various sizes, and of varying difficulties, as long as they are well "balanced" (and there are various ways to do that). I like new content especially if it's not ripped, and if it's not used gratuitously; changing a weapon's sound "just because" is rather lame, but if the weapon is modified, it might be wise to include new sounds.

I have some other specific preferences, but I'll refrain from noting them because I prefer to see humans make up their own minds for personal reasons rather than zombies that go by whoever uses or prefers whatever.

If you want to make something, but don't really know what, wait and keep playing WADs instead of editing (playing should always come first anyway). From playing you'll get more ideas, especially if you keep an eye out for cool stuff to take as an inspiration or influence as you play.

07-31-08 06:49 #

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GreyGhost
Senior Member

Posts: 1067
Registered: 01-08

I'd like a huge unfinished forgotten dark spaceport map with ridiculous numbers of lost UAC machines.

There's probably no such thing as an "ideal map" - individual tastes are just too divergent. Turn out a map or two in the style you like and test-drive them in the forums to see how many people share your tastes.

07-31-08 07:52 #

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Kyka
needs to LURK MORE

Posts: 505
Registered: 06-08

All I ask is that the map "feel" like Doom. Some mods that I play use the doom engine, but, but don't really feel like doom at all.

If you wanna design a great level, don't do anything to break the feel of being totally "in" the level. That, IMO is the most important thing. Some things that break the flow include

a)misaligned textures, and a general lack of attention to detail. I don;t want to be walking around a map, and instead of struggling desperately against waves of hell, I find myself looking at a room and going "Hey, that wall is misaligned." or "damn, those two former humans are stucked together"

b)overly predictable traps. "And as i walk into this room, with the blue key in the middle of it, I just know that those walls will drop, and ...*sigh... yup... imps will come out."

c)walking around lost, not knowing where to go next.. (I disliked eternal doom for that very reason.) To quote zero punctuation "If more than a minute goes by without a gun and a murder, you're doing something wrong"

I dont mind if its a single level or a megawad (though I love a good megawad), and I tend to prefer big levels.(If it takes me longer to download it and unzip it than to play it, thats not quite what we're after.)

Anyway, hope that helps.

P.S. I agree with a lot of what Myk said..

07-31-08 08:45 #

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Kyka
needs to LURK MORE

Posts: 505
Registered: 06-08

Wishes come true...

JohnnyRancid said:
There better be a Teleport ambush as soon as I pick up this key, Yes!

All those DSSLOP sounds better be coming from an Arch Vile nearby, Yes!

I hope there aren't any Medikits in this giant courtyard with chaingunners in those windows, Yes!

This room better be really small to fight these Hell Barons in, Yes!

This dark room better have spectres in it, Yes!

This brown water better deal 10% damage, Yes!

This better not be the exit switch, Yes!

07-31-08 08:55 #

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Enjay
ASK ME ABOUT FOOTBALL / STEAM / DEAD CELEBRITIES / THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT

Posts: 3928
Registered: 12-00

GreyGhost said:
I'd like a huge unfinished forgotten dark spaceport map with ridiculous numbers of lost UAC machines.

That does sound interesting.

However, the original question is, I suspect, going to get almost as many different answers as people who answer. Personally, I like tech bases, sci-fi feel and "real" places.

07-31-08 11:40 #

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Death-Destiny
Forum Regular

Posts: 932
Registered: 12-07

I'd prefer for authors to make up their own minds about what they want to make. If you really like what your making, then prove it to the rest of us. Show us how incredible you think the theme of your map is.

Whenever I make a map, I always just pick out some (literally) random texture scheme and try my best to make it look good (and, surprisingly, this is not hard to do!) Then, I fill the map with my favorite enemies, my favorite trap setups, and what-have-you. I try to make a map that I know I'd love. If I love my own map, then there will be other people like me who also love it.

You can't please everyone. I know I like bizarrely textured, non-techbase maps full of Cybs, Archies, and Pain Elementals with a generous supply of ammo to kill them with. Therefore, it is most rewarding to me to make the style of map that I love and people with similar tastes will love. If I make a conventionally textured techbase with a bunch of zombies... well, I'm not picky, so I'd probably enjoy that too, but I wouldn't feel like I'm mapping out of my own imagination, but rather just to make a map that "fits in", so to speak, and it wouldn't feel very rewarding.

My favorite maps have always been the divergent ones. From the CCs, my favorite maps were, in no particular order, "The Mucus Flow", "The Citadel at the Edge of Eternity", "For We are Many", "Fate in Blood" and "Sodding Death." I probably like all these maps for doing something unique with the texturing, architecture, or gameplay. The authors of these maps proved the worth of their vision, and that's what being a mapper is about, IMO, as opposed to trying to make a map that is "in demand".

On a side note, I'm surprised Enjay gave such a brief response, considering how he normally gets going on mapping philosophy. ;-)

Last edited by Death-Destiny on 07-31-08 at 17:40

07-31-08 16:35 #

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hardcore_gamer
I am not a moron, but you have the right to call me one

Posts: 896
Registered: 03-07

I like megawads with "short but fun levels, maps that can be completed in less than 6-10 min and remain fun all the way! And the maps have to be designed in a way so that the player never gets lost for hours trying to figure out what to do!

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07-31-08 17:55 #

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dutch devil
Forum Staple

Posts: 2324
Registered: 05-04

Ignore the tastes of the doom community and just create what you like, thats what I always do.Don't make an tech map because the majority of the community likes those, map for yourself mapping to impress an community is just dumb.

But if you would want my opinion, I like anyhing thats preserves the classic doom feeling and gameplay.The more stock it looks the better, I wished more people would appreciate doom for what it is.And didn't tried to turn it into one big zdoom crapfest.

07-31-08 17:57 #

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Naan
Junior Member

Posts: 192
Registered: 10-05

Epic maps.

Staple Heretic megawads that are equivalents to what HR/AV are to Doom.

07-31-08 18:54 #

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Karnizero
Mini-Member

Posts: 62
Registered: 07-08

I like:

-> Medium size maps (not 1000K sectors, not 2 sectors).
-> Detailed maps, but not overloaded.
-> Advanced ilumination effects, but not abusing that
-> Balanced difficult: dont fight with a chaingunner for a +1 health bonus, and not having medkits at each room.
-> An ambush, or two, or even three, but no more (all depending on map size).
-> Monster convination. This is, when fightning, lets combine imps + shotgun guys + hell knights, etc...
-> If you want to make any resource (health, ammo or other) to lack, i prefer to lack ammo, and not health.
-> Demonic/Infernal ambience. This is, using MARB* textures, WOOD*, METAL, BFALL, CRAKLE*, and similar.
-> A map remembering those Ultimate Doom Maps at E4M*
-> If you make a mini-episode, would be nice to start at an UAC base, and finish at Hell.
-> A bock of Guinness.

dutch devil said:
[...]I wished more people would appreciate doom for what it is.And didn't tried to turn it into one big zdoom crapfest.

I second.

07-31-08 19:24 #

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Tango
Forum Regular

Posts: 745
Registered: 04-06

VINES AND PLUTONIA

07-31-08 19:24 #

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Doom Marine
Forum Regular

Posts: 781
Registered: 09-03

Hell maps, I want lots of hell maps.

07-31-08 19:37 #

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POTGIESSER
Senior Member

Posts: 1311
Registered: 06-04

Don't map for anyone other than yourself. If people happen to like what you enjoy mapping, bonus. Mapping on the principle of what other people might like is just silly. It's like making music based on what a potential audience might like instead of how it personally makes you feel. Incredibly stupid. Only with music you might actually make money. No money to be had in a Doom mapping hobby so you best make what you like.

07-31-08 19:55 #

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Kyka
needs to LURK MORE

Posts: 505
Registered: 06-08

dutch devil said:

But if you would want my opinion, I like anyhing thats preserves the classic doom feeling and gameplay.The more stock it looks the better, I wished more people would appreciate doom for what it is.And didn't tried to turn it into one big zdoom crapfest.

I third, fourth and fifth.

07-31-08 19:56 #

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K!r4
Member

Posts: 606
Registered: 05-07

I love creative, original maps, with something new and ingenious, either for gameplay than details.

07-31-08 19:57 #

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JohnnyRancid
Forum Regular

Posts: 798
Registered: 08-07

Well for those who said to make a wad based on what I like and not what's in demand, I do want to make maps based on what I like, but I know doomworld is a diverse community, and I kinda want to see what the majority of people like. Obviously there's no way I could make a wad that suits everyones tastes. For example, there may be a small branch of the doom community that enjoys a good joke wad, but there may also be a large majority who hates them. If I were into jokewads, I should probably steer away from making them in bulk because the majority of people don't want to play them.

I just kinda want to know what people like to play, that way I can attempt to create that kinda stuff. Hopefully gain some notoriety in the doom community on the way.

Really this is just a thread to see if me and the Doom Community are on the same page.

07-31-08 21:06 #

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K!r4
Member

Posts: 606
Registered: 05-07

Well if you want notoriety just create your own style with what you like, and make this style close to perfect.
I think if you make what the others want you'll get done with mapping in one week, but it's just my opinion.

07-31-08 22:51 #

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Butts
Forum Regular

Posts: 833
Registered: 07-07

I like maps. Now go make some, you fucker!!!

But seriously, just follow your heart when mapping. In my opinion, a good megawad is what i enjoy the most.

08-01-08 01:59 #

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Kyka
needs to LURK MORE

Posts: 505
Registered: 06-08

Butts said:
I like maps.

What a coincidence. I like maps too. I could be wrong here, but I am starting to suspect there are others on doomworld who also like maps. Perhaps that (And I'm going way out here) is the common ground between everyone. Johnny Rancid... You heard Butts. Get mapping... ;)

08-01-08 03:08 #

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Death-Destiny
Forum Regular

Posts: 932
Registered: 12-07

JohnnyRancid said:
I just kinda want to know what people like to play, that way I can attempt to create that kinda stuff. Hopefully gain some notoriety in the doom community on the way.

Well, since you're allowing your opinion to be swayed by other people, I like Hell maps full of powerful monsters. I also like maps with lots of green in them, especially nukage falls and preferably all this together. Green is my favorite color. :)

I like canyons, caves, and temples too... and really tall rooms. Pretty much anything other than the clich�d techbase theme. And if you must make a techbase, I like 'em outta power, with dark areas, subverted spaces, and the natural area outside worked in throughout.

I don't like hitscanner, but I love tons of projectiles coming at me. I also like the SSG a lot, but can't stand being expected to kill anything much bigger than a specter with the pistol. I like Pain Elemetals a lot, too, and wish I saw a lot more of them, especially killing them with chainsaws or chainguns...

And I could go on and on about all the things I'd like to see in a map. I can tell you right now my preferences are probably a little wacky. Because of everyone having unique preferences, I'd just make such a map as described above myself, and I'd say you should do the same, but with your own preferences. You'll likely have more fun that way and I'm certain you'll get some attention if you execute your theme well, whatever it may be...

though I wouldn't complain if you do make me a cute green map full of pain elementals. :>

08-01-08 03:27 #

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Black Metal
Mini-Member

Posts: 56
Registered: 06-08

The BEST thing to do is something no one has seen before. I remember playing Alien Vendetta map 20, and the level blew my mind. It goes from a real like egyptian temple, to a passage through a lava with a huge granite/rock setting. It blew my mind and made me want to make a map just like that. I couldn't since I was having fun with making another wad, but the moral of the story is "uniqueness is unique".

[Properly done] hell maps make me orgasm.

I enjoy:
- Tough challenge, should require 1-5 saves. Anything over 20 saves should be something really fun to play with good graphics.
- Preferably detail to blow my mind
- Innovation
- Cool zDoom effects

I dislike:
- Too much brown. Its cool and all, and can be done right... but people who go hexen/quake brown can become slightly irritating for me personally.
- Shitty done space maps (space as in universe). They have so much potential :(
- Too linear gameplay
- Arch vile behind invisible walls. They're fine every so often, too many is irritating
- No ammo. I despise that, but not as much as...
- No health. This is the worst.

08-01-08 06:39 #

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GreyGhost
Senior Member

Posts: 1067
Registered: 01-08

Enjay said:
That does sound interesting.

Furthermore - there's a switch on each UAC machine. When the maps run, some switches are selected at random to unlock sections of the exit door, the others flood the map with revenants. Doesn't that sound like fun. :-)

JohnnyRancid said:
I just kinda want to know what people like to play, that way I can attempt to create that kinda stuff. Hopefully gain some notoriety in the doom community on the way.

I'm pretty much in agreement with Dutch Devil where map styles are concerned (with a bit less green) and I'd like to see what you can create without trying to conform to community expectations - whatever you may perceive them to be.

08-01-08 10:43 #

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justanotherfool
Junior Member

Posts: 103
Registered: 12-07

For my part I'd love to see a map in which the player storms a heavily defended fortress of some kind. The only four that evoke that kind of mood for me are AV 06, The Spire 2, one of the maps from the 3rd or 4th episode of Udderdude's Heretic megawad Hordes of Chaos by the name of "Fortress of Fortitude" (well worth playing, probably my favourite of the four) and one map from late in Scythe 2 (don't remember the name). Hard to put into words what separates these from any other kind of level, since you could credibly make the argument that most maps are of this sort, but hopefully if you've played the maps I mentioned you'll get my meaning.

I had the idea of a level taking place on two cliffsides separated by a chasm (slightly reminiscent of DVII's cliffside map and the end of cc3 map 20, perhaps). You would start on the top of one of the cliffs and work your way through a series of tunnels and paths on the side of the cliffs to get to several small waypoint bases (preferably linear) which would then lead to a huge castle on both sides of the cliff. This could lead to quite an interesting layout with the occasional bridge allowing you to switch cliffs, some teleporters to lead you to disconnected areas of the level, lots of sniping enemies and impressive vistas.

08-01-08 16:10 #

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Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > WADs & Mods > What's In High Demand?

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