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MajorRawne
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Fine, I won't review it then *shakes fist*. ;)

But what happens if nobody else claims it? Remember they've got to play through all the original levels as well, and some of them are... well, a bit bobbins.

I forgot to mention about map 12 - I don't know how to stop the railings sinking into the floor in the first room. Also, at first the start room was just a trap for fools and you could get out of there if you hit a couple of switches quickly enough. You would have to kill all the Mancs later, but that led to problems with the ones on the left-hand ledge, as you had to move up a nearly vertical staircase to get to them and rockets kept exploding near the top of the stairs without doing any damage. (You cannot IMAGINE how many issues I had with this map.)

There were two to four Mancs actually on ground level with you and the torches were on raised pillars for cover. So you kind of went hunting and prayed to survive. It was very intense. There was a super shotgun where the single barrelled shotgun now is. There was not going to be a single barrelled shotgun in the entire map. (Note the unusual absense of handgunners, shotgunners and also body armour - unusual moves in a Doom map.)

Traversd made some changes to the start area and moved some of the weapons around, adding the single shotty.

Next time round I am going to completely leave the original map intact and not change any gameplay elements. A simple matter of re-texturing, re-deploying monsters and making a few scenery changes will be it! Altering the gameplay of a finished map is a total nightmare and is harder than just creating a new map from scratch.
Old Post 10-29-11 16:33 #
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RjY
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MajorRawne said:
I forgot to mention about map 12 - I don't know how to stop the railings sinking into the floor in the first room.
You need to have the floors on either side of the railings be different somehow to force a visplane split. If you need the floor height on both sides to be the same, the best trick is to make the light levels differ by one.

Since Doom only uses 16 colormaps (some engines raise this to 32) you can vary lightlevels slightly without actually changing the light in a sector. I forget exactly where the cutoffs between colormaps are. If raising the lightlevel by one actually changes the light in a sector, lower it by one instead.
Old Post 10-29-11 17:15 #
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tatsurd-cacocaco
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Snarboo, shall we release the final version now? Probably there is already no fatal bug, though all minor bugs can't be found. Time to draw a line.
Old Post 10-29-11 18:21 #
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Snarboo
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Alright, I'll fix those problems and upload a new version sometime within the week. I'd say those are enough issues to justify an update.

Last edited by Snarboo on 10-29-11 at 22:40
Old Post 10-29-11 22:35 #
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Memfis
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Please don't rebuild the nodes if possible, or else already existing demos might desync.
Old Post 10-29-11 22:49 #
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Snarboo
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I'll be sure to only rebuild the nodes for maps that have issues, and post a list of updated maps in the Doom Speed Demos thread so those maps can be rerecorded.

Part of the reason I held off on the update was because of demo desyncs, but I think updating the wad is the most important thing to do.
Old Post 10-29-11 23:08 #
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GreyGhost
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MajorRawne said:
Fine, I won't review it then *shakes fist*. ;)

But what happens if nobody else claims it? Remember they've got to play through all the original levels as well, and some of them are... well, a bit bobbins.
Reviewing the wads could in itself almost qualify as a community project, where's deathz0r when you need him? His love of `94 maps is legendary.
Old Post 10-30-11 02:30 #
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tatsurd-cacocaco
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Snarboo said:
Alright, I'll fix those problems and upload a new version sometime within the week. I'd say those are enough issues to justify an update.
OK! Like I said before, send the version to me before you upload it to idgames. Map 9 and map 15 were changed, so my demos in the wad desync. I must re-record them.
Old Post 10-30-11 02:35 #
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Snarboo
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Changes for the next version:

traversd's changes:

  • Minor fixes for Map 9.
  • Texture bleeding in Map 12.


My changes:

  • Map 6 has had lifts added to the slime pit to prevent players from getting trapped.
  • Sector 1634 on Map 32 has had its secret tag removed, as well as fixing a spot where the player could get trapped.
  • For Map 17, linedef #760 has had it's special changed so that it only changes the texture, not effect. The hallway with thing #400 has been slightly redesigned so it is no longer stuck in the wall.
  • On Map 22, linedef #601 has been split, the hanging bodies have been swapped out for ones that don't block, the silent teleport lines have been fixed, and sectors 2537-9 have (hopefully) been fixed. Sector #2187 has undergone an extensive redesign, so now monsters should teleport out of it much faster.
  • The Zombiemen in sectors 592 and 593 on Map 27 are no longer stuck.


Nodes have been rebuilt for these maps, so any speed runs or demos for these maps will desync! I'll be sure to make a post about this in the relevant Doom Speed Demos thread once the update hits /newstuff.

I'll be uploading this on October 31st, so if anyone else notices issues before then, speak up!
Old Post 10-30-11 19:53 #
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j4rio
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j4rio said:
You can also get stuck in map 15.

here, demo
http://www.mediafire.com/?s1ncre6365p7x0d


Is this issue patched up? If not, I'd advice to have a look at it as it's a bit more serious than a bleeding texture or something imo.
Old Post 10-30-11 20:16 #
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Snarboo
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I'm going to say that's a serious case of "don't do that". I'm not entirely sure how to fix it, and the lift behaves normally if you don't hammer the switch.
Old Post 10-30-11 20:44 #
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traversd
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I'll have another look at it tonight (7am here now).

Travers
Old Post 10-30-11 20:52 #
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traversd
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Am posting update here so notorious lift breakers (j4trio) can test it out.

I think it now prevents the switch mashing issue but still has an issue if you click the switch to raise the platform and rush out, jamming the player between lift and ceiling of bottom hallway. Once you get out it continues on it's merry way (like any other multi-sector lift). But at least now you cannot get stuck in the middle.... I think.

http://www.mediafire.com/?aoyr52j3unr2i3r

Travers

PS. re: demo compatibility, DSDA only has a few maxes and mostly FDA's so making an update now is probably better than later on if there are any more maxes attempted etc. I also noticed that it has it's own download with 2 copies of 1994tu.wad, one of the earlier RCs and the first idgames release so Andy might do the same with the next (final... really really final) release?

now, btsx
Old Post 10-31-11 12:48 #
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j4rio
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You can still get stuck. :D

Just move the switch somewhere else in the upper room so there won't be any way to press it immediately.
Old Post 10-31-11 13:39 #
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traversd
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haaate u! breaker! ;o)

How's this? (I think) Because I hadn't flagged the front linedef of the switch itself as impassable, the player can jam the lift trying to step into it. At least that's how I just managed to make the middle of the lift lower and not the outer parts.

http://www.mediafire.com/?uxnd3u262n2vbfr
Old Post 10-31-11 14:17 #
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j4rio
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Seems to work fine. ;)
Old Post 10-31-11 14:33 #
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traversd
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\o/
Old Post 10-31-11 15:04 #
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MajorRawne
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Well, I've just completed Rawnwood (map 12) on UV, and I've got to say I am completely thrilled by it. I put craploads of hard work into the map and Traversd, guided by invaluable playtesting feedback (cheers lads), has tweaked my vision into a fully playable and, dare I say it, rather awesome experience.

I guess this is the pride everyone feels about their first completed map. The map was all but unplayable without certain fixes to the geography of the map and, critically, the ammo balance, all of which has been completed thanks to those who took on my burden. Not only did Traversd accomplish this not-too-small task, he also stayed true to my vision almost 100% except where my vision was unworkable.

If there is a single issue with the map, it's that there is no need to go through the crusher tunnel (which, if you choose to do so, is the nightmarish experience I'd hoped).

I'm overwhelmed by how awesome the final map turned out to look, with its geography that reorganises itself (eg after you get the red key), with rare crusher ceilings, barrels that hold items and other touches I've always wanted to see in a map.

Anyway, enough gushing about my own map, just thanks to everyone who played it and worked on it, and I hope it is remembered as one of the better maps in the set for whatever reason; only time, and the /Newstuff reviews, will tell.
Old Post 10-31-11 15:43 #
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Snarboo
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Alright, I'm adding the updates to Map 15 to the main wad, and I'll send it off to tatsurd sometime today. :)

Edit:
Done and done! The file has now been sent off to tatsurd.

@traversd: I noticed you moved the player 1 start to right next to the lift, so I moved it back to the starting area. :p

Last edited by Snarboo on 10-31-11 at 18:45
Old Post 10-31-11 16:56 #
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tatsurd-cacocaco
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Yes, I received it, and I recorded map 9 and 15 demos.
Here.
http://tatsurdcacocaco.ninja-web.net/1994TUnew_demos.zip
Old Post 11-01-11 16:06 #
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Snarboo
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Thanks tatsurd!

The update has been uploaded to /incoming. :)
Old Post 11-01-11 18:05 #
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Snarboo
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The updated version has hit /idgames. I'll be updating the first post.
Old Post 11-05-11 05:49 #
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damerell
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MajorRawne said:
Damerell, I've often wondered where the map's original author would be now and if he still remembered his map or even thought about Doom.

Oh, I still play Doom, now and again. Not often, but often enough I could still draw you a map of half the levels from memory without referring to the game. And I still, every now and then, enjoy the experience of watching someone play Aliens-TC for the first time.
As far as the direction of the map goes, I'm sort of disappointed that you and I have different visions, but in a way it's cool;

I think it's inevitable, too; map design is very different now. Partially of course that's because it's a lot better, but... partially it's just different. In '94, after all, super-detailed maps were actually impossible because of engine limits; a lot of design for DOOM.EXE reflects the 128 visplanes limit.
Maybe you could submit a Woodhalls 3 as a bonus level - the only contribution from an original author? Now THAT would be something special.

I haven't opened an editor other than to check how some overly clever fellow has hidden away a secret for some years, I'm afraid.
Old Post 11-19-11 09:37 #
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Steve1664
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I started playing this when I saw it on the /newstuff Chronicles last week, and it's been a fantastic set of maps thus far (up to M13 now). Great challenge with a nice focus on the basic designs without saturating the levels with enemies. Extra kudos to the music choices, ESPECIALLY Map 12!
Old Post 01-06-12 00:19 #
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kmxexii
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Just for fun (and because I previously had no idea), I cracked open 1994TU with SLADE3 and created side-by-side comparisons of all the maps featured in this megaWAD, posting them on my blog. I was pleasantly surprised at how much (and how little) some of the maps varied. The only ones I can't figure out are maggot202's contributions, which quite frankly look like different maps entirely from their layouts.

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Old Post 01-11-12 12:37 #
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Snarboo
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Wow, it's really fascinating seeing how much the original maps were changed! That's a really nice way to cap off the project IMO. Thanks for posting that kmxexii. :)
Old Post 01-11-12 20:41 #
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damerell
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Huh, I thought MajorRawne changed the maze around more than that when I was playing the map.
Old Post 01-13-12 21:47 #
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traversd
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kmxexii said:
Just for fun (and because I previously had no idea), I cracked open 1994TU with SLADE3 and created side-by-side comparisons of all the maps featured in this megaWAD, posting them on my blog. I was pleasantly surprised at how much (and how little) some of the maps varied. The only ones I can't figure out are maggot202's contributions, which quite frankly look like different maps entirely from their layouts.


Not quite sure why but his maps were mirrored (on both x&y axis) compared to the originals.

Thanks for the kind words too (in your review blog). I'm glad the pack is proving to be a good experience for players.
Old Post 01-14-12 09:15 #
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kmxexii
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traversd said:


Not quite sure why but his maps were mirrored (on both x&y axis) compared to the originals.

Thanks for the kind words too (in your review blog). I'm glad the pack is proving to be a good experience for players.


You're welcome! Also, thanks for the tip. I can definitely see the layout similarities after flipping both axes.

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Old Post 01-14-12 10:24 #
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