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Tarnsman
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Olympus said:
I think it looks pretty cool. Looks like a map that will really capture the TNT feeling of adventure. And while it does look relatively linear, I see no problem with that, I don't see why every map needs to be non linear. Variety is good, I suppose.


Stringiness has nothing to do with linearity. Most doom maps are really linear, you only have 1 way you can go to progress. Hub-spoke extending out into straight runs are just the absolute worst extreme of linearity. VF mentions HR2 Map 29 but again that map has an encompassing shape and it's not literally area connects to next area by hallway in a straight line. And the problem has nothing to do with how it looks on the automap, the problem has to do with gameplay. Connectivity may make scenes look visually more complex and nicer but far more importantly, it opens up a lot of game play variety that you just can't have with straight runs, particularly in the fields of monster roam and map dynamics. Also the map does appear to not be all that linear if you look at the different sections of the stringiness. My complaint is not linearity, it is that the overall shape doesn't look conducive to making all those areas work together in an interesting way. Now maybe Kyka can pull something great off but just looking at the layout I can already tell it's a map that I probably won't find that fun.

Old Post 04-04-13 05:46 #
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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Tarnsman said:
that layout looks disgustingly stringy


I don't see how this is either helpful or constructive. I mean, come on. It's not as if people are gonna go home and think to themselves, "Goshdarnit, I simply must make my automap layouts less disgustingly stringy."



esselfortium said:
I dunno. There is a lot of spaghetti in that map. Not just long flat corridors, but really long symmetrical corridors.


Notice, Mr Tarnsman, how essel has made some actual points. Irrespective of whether essel is being constructively critical or simply critical, at least posts like these give me something to think about and see whether I can take anything from what is said. (And yes some of the map does feature long symmetrical corridors. I confess. It's true.) There is one section that might have simply too many long straight corridors, but I think the rest of the map is really strong in terms of look and gameplay.



Memfis said:
let's see how it plays first


I freely admit I have taken some risks with the way I have done my portions of the map. I am going for epic here, and in my experience, you can't do epic and play it really safe at the same time. Alter's sections of this map are amazing, and hopefully my sections don't ruin his work too much. :(


TheMionicDonut said:


On top of that, it also looks kinda linear. Kinda really linear.

Again, will need to see how it plays.



Not quite as linear as it first appears, given you start more or less in the middle of the map, and work your way outwards from there.


Tango said:
looks pretty awesome and tnt to me


Woohoo! Thanks bro. :) And in response to your earlier post, yes, yes I will your have babbies. All your babbies. We will go to sleep at night on mattresses stuffed with manbabbies!

*vaguely shudders*

@Olympus and Valkiriforce and ProcessingControl.

Thanks guys. This map is heavily inspired by Drake O'Brien's tnt maps, so huge, epic and tough is the order of the day here.

There is only one exit, but three ways to access that exit, depending oh how good you are at finding secrets.

Old Post 04-04-13 06:04 #
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esselfortium
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:


I don't see how this is either helpful or constructive. I mean, come on. It's not as if people are gonna go home and think to themselves, "Goshdarnit, I simply must make my automap layouts less disgustingly stringy."


Well they should! I go home and think this to myself every day of my life


Notice, Mr Tarnsman, how essel has made some actual points. Irrespective of whether essel is being constructively critical or simply critical, at least posts like these give me something to think about and see whether I can take anything from what is said. (And yes some of the map does feature long symmetrical corridors. I confess. It's true.) There is one section that might have simply too many long straight corridors, but I think the rest of the map is really strong in terms of look and gameplay.

Look at the post immediately above yours, lol

Old Post 04-04-13 06:09 #
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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esselfortium said:

Look at the post immediately above yours, lol



Sneaky Mr Tarnsman, posting at the same time I was posting mine. (Or at least typing mine, as I didn't post until a while after.) Yeah I actually laughed at the irony.

In fairness, Tarnsman's newer post is much more constructive and helpful than merely "disgustingly stringy automap." And at least there are some points I can take from that. I mean I freely admit, the entire left half of the map is pretty much big staged battle --> next big staged battle --> next big staged battle, but I think there is still enough different and interesting stuff to make it work, and enough monsters 'bleeding' between the different areas to make it still seem like there is some sort of flow.

Hopefully anyway.

Thanks Tarnsman for your clarification. Impeccable timing also. o_0

Old Post 04-04-13 07:03 #
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GBT3
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When I think about TNT I see multiple paths leading to the same ending room in fixed order (Yellow-Red-Blue or Blue-Red-Yellow or Red-Yellow-Blue is up to you but you need visit all of them and go accordingly without changing selected order in the middle) what can make you feel it's non-linear but is misleading and fake freedom because no matter where you go, you need to go somewhere earlier before you can make any progress but have choice with many optional areas to go and hunt for items or secrets.

Old Post 04-04-13 21:27 #
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Ragnor
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

This map is heavily inspired by Drake O'Brien's tnt maps, so huge, epic and tough is the order of the day here.

There is only one exit, but three ways to access that exit, depending oh how good you are at finding secrets.



This might end up one of my favourite maps then! All of Drake's maps are my favourite TNT maps, alongside Wormhole

Old Post 04-05-13 00:02 #
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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Woohoo. Ragnor, me and you need to start up a Drake O'Brien Appreciation Club.

'Course as far as we know, he only ever released those three maps in tnt, so we might run out of material to appreciate pretty quick, but hey, gotta work with what you have.

Hope stuff IRL is working out ok for you. :D

Old Post 04-05-13 03:09 #
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Demon of the Well
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The combo of maps 20/21 are my favorite part of Evilution, hands down. Can't say I'm as much of a fan of Mount Pain (gets pretty sloggy in the gameplay department at times), although parts of it are quite neat-looking, and it has a dramatic finish just like those other two.

Kyka, is the map you just recently posted the layout shot of the one from a few pages back that had the very pronounced blue/grey color scheme, or was that a different one?

Oh, yeah, and for my part, I think that construction that's covered in the tech column props looks pretty cool. Odd, but cool. Seen from a distance and at a wide angle like the one in the shot, they sort of give the impression of a surface bristling with exhaust stacks, or something. Granted, though, I reckon they do probably look sillier the closer you get to them, and the more flush your perspective becomes.

Old Post 04-05-13 03:23 #
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TheMionicDonut
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GBT3 said:
When I think about TNT I see multiple paths leading to the same ending room in fixed order (Yellow-Red-Blue or Blue-Red-Yellow or Red-Yellow-Blue is up to you but you need visit all of them and go accordingly without changing selected order in the middle) what can make you feel it's non-linear but is misleading and fake freedom because no matter where you go, you need to go somewhere earlier before you can make any progress but have choice with many optional areas to go and hunt for items or secrets.


You are going to like map28 then 8)
On that note, updated version of map28 forthcoming.

Old Post 04-05-13 04:11 #
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Ragnor
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I never got past the opening of 28 due to crashing issues, caused by the revenants. Is that start any different?

Not that my computer is currently able to get back to Doom, but you know, curiousity.

Kyka: Don't make me run through TNT on the PS3 just to refresh my memory of his maps :p

Old Post 04-05-13 15:39 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Ragnor said:
I never got past the opening of 28 due to crashing issues, caused by the revenants. Is that start any different?

Not that my computer is currently able to get back to Doom, but you know, curiousity.

Kyka: Don't make me run through TNT on the PS3 just to refresh my memory of his maps :p



What was the specific issue. All I get is "something about revs"

Old Post 04-06-13 06:42 #
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Ragnor
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Massive groups of revenants crash my computer, happened every so often on 29, and insures that I cant complete the first room of 28. This combined with serious IRL issues is why I havent been testing for a while.

Good news however, my brother is getting an awesome laptop for his birthday today, so its likely that I can test with that. Especially seeing as how he borrows all my consoles so often :/

Old Post 04-06-13 22:49 #
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GBT3
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Good. I like thrusting like on rampage in the middle of revenants horde, straferunning in circles to evade their homing missiles and see all the complaints of people who can't avoid being hurt too much. What's making them so satisfying is because you can evade homing missiles in front of Revenant, face to face when they trying get close to you and is too late before he launches another homing attack spamming him with super shotgun pellets in 2 shots.

Old Post 04-06-13 23:05 #
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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Demon of the Well said:


Kyka, is the map you just recently posted the layout shot of the one from a few pages back that had the very pronounced blue/grey color scheme, or was that a different one?



Soz 4 late reply. No they are not the same maps. I think the blue/grey map you are referring to is map 08, the layout I posted is from map 17, and is pretty much brown/tan throughout.



Oh, yeah, and for my part, I think that construction that's covered in the tech column props looks pretty cool. Odd, but cool. Seen from a distance and at a wide angle like the one in the shot, they sort of give the impression of a surface bristling with exhaust stacks, or something. Granted, though, I reckon they do probably look sillier the closer you get to them, and the more flush your perspective becomes.



Yeah. I posted those screens as WIPs, just to see how they looked to other people, so thanks for your thoughts. Having read your (and others) comments, I have messed with some of those areas some more.



Ragnor said:

Kyka: Don't make me run through TNT on the PS3 just to refresh my memory of his maps :p



You must. It's the law. At least you will have a nice laptop to play it on.

Also, from the almost finished map 17. Huzzah:

http://i.imgur.com/QX7iYOw.png

http://i.imgur.com/n6tyeCz.png

Old Post 04-09-13 18:19 #
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Olympus
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Stop teasing us, Kyka. Please just release this already! :p

In all seriousness, you dont even know how much im looking forward to this, and im sure tons of others are, too. Keep it up, you and the rest of the team are doing a great job!

Old Post 04-10-13 00:03 #
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Avoozl
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A lot of the maps appear to be using the brown, tan and red theme constantly.

Old Post 04-10-13 02:52 #
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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Olympus said:
Stop teasing us, Kyka. Please just release this already! :p

In all seriousness, you dont even know how much im looking forward to this, and im sure tons of others are, too. Keep it up, you and the rest of the team are doing a great job!



Thanks Olympus. Of course, I am not actually in charge of the project, so an actual release date is not up to me, but things are still moving in the right direction. The texture pack is finished, (after 70 odd revisions, updates and additions,) and there are only a handful of maps still outstanding.

Then it is down to final playtesting, deathmatch and coop balancing, more playtesting, music for the levels, and probably some more playtesting.

But we have made some good progress over the last 6 months, and the project is slowly getting there.


Avoozl said:
A lot of the maps appear to be using the brown, tan and red theme constantly.


Seemed like a fair comment, so I went and looked at the last few pages to see, and you are probably correct in saying this. But I will say that most of the screenies from the last few pages of the thread are from high tier maps, and so it is probably good that there is some similarities between them. I can't give you a definitive answer to your comment tho, because at least a dozen of the maps I haven't actually seen. But I think that there will be plenty of variety in the final set. There are plenty of techbasey style maps, and quite a number of quite unique levels also. As well there are a couple of maps on the reserve list that are also pretty interesting and could be used if need be.

Old Post 04-10-13 10:49 #
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darkreaver
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I don't mind brown/tan at all, but:


KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:


it is probably good that there is some similarities between them.



No! Diversity ftw.

Old Post 04-10-13 12:40 #
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Ragnor
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Let me know when theres a new relevant update for me to test, while the internet here is now almost always cut off from everyone else, theres usually a window each night to download a new version for me to test during offline time. I do indeed have permission to use his laptop for Devilution testing, and it runs GREAT.

I actually got to see a lot of Mionic's Map 28 (which is insane and possibly above my skill level, but I'll get that beast done eventually when can connect my 360 controller)

Old Post 04-11-13 09:00 #
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Hunter_568
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I have a feeling that this won't be released for a while.....

Old Post 04-11-13 23:32 #
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Eris Falling
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I'll be totally honest, I was getting all excited about the really close release date back in July when I registered here. I might nominate this for Mordeth, if there are no other contenders out this year.

Old Post 04-12-13 00:52 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Eris Falling said:
I'll be totally honest, I was getting all excited about the really close release date back in July when I registered here. I might nominate this for Mordeth, if there are no other contenders out this year.


What other contenders are there? Other than mordeth and millennium of course.

Old Post 04-12-13 06:12 #
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Hunter_568
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TheMionicDonut said:


What other contenders are there? Other than mordeth and millennium of course.



Absolutely none, and speaking of Mordeth I feel like it will never be released and if it is then I don't think it will be worth it, even though I thought episode 1 was pretty good. Anyway I am getting off-topic, we'll just have to wait for some time for TNT 2 but from the demo I can wait.

Old Post 04-12-13 08:24 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Yeah, I'm really starting to consider pulling my maps and releasing them elsewhere, because with each passing month, it seems less and less likely that this project will ever come to fruition.

Im holding out for now but if summer comes and goes with no headway and not even a first alpha...

On a positive note, Sending out new version of map28 right now.

Last edited by TheMionicDonut on 04-12-13 at 19:56

Old Post 04-12-13 19:41 #
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Marcaek
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Chill dude, sometimes when you're part of a community project you need to wait up for other members to finish their contributions.

Old Post 04-12-13 19:58 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Marcaek said:
Chill dude, sometimes when you're part of a community project you need to wait up for other members to finish their contributions.


I understand this. But I get a little irked around the one year mark. And this is to say nothing of those who have been waiting three or four years. This threat of action is more a call to action.

It is just another case of what happened with CC4 or PL2.

Old Post 04-12-13 20:05 #
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Marcaek
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Yeah but all it'll accomplish is dragging the project down EVEN FURTHER, as you'll suddenly have free slots that need an entire map done.

Old Post 04-12-13 20:21 #
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Not Jabba
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It is just another case of what happened with CC4 or PL2.


Both of which were incredibly well worth the wait.

Old Post 04-12-13 20:29 #
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Tarnsman
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"Hey guys I know we're almost done, but you're not working fast enough for me so I'm just going to pull my stuff and delay the project even more,"

Old Post 04-12-13 20:41 #
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Whoo
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TheMionicDonut said:
Yeah, I'm really starting to consider pulling my maps and releasing them elsewhere, because with each passing month, it seems less and less likely that this project will ever come to fruition.

Im holding out for now but if summer comes and goes with no headway and not even a first alpha...

On a positive note, Sending out new version of map28 right now.



We're waiting on five mere maps. You have to understand that people (including myself) are extremely busy with school this time of year.

By the end of May if I haven't received the maps be assured that there will be some sort of public alpha.

On that note, sorry for my absence. I've been at school for 8+ hours a day for the past two weeks, so I haven't had much time to work on getting status updates from mappers.

Old Post 04-12-13 21:01 #
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