TNT 2: Devilution (MIDI Composers Needed)

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
Senior Member

Posts: 1002
Registered: 04-11

Hey purist, I have just PM'd you my thoughts on your map 25. Great map.

Ragnor said:
I've read EVERY post in this thread over the last few days, and I love everything thats happened since I first posted back in 2009. Cant beleive my suggestion to touch up the textures (which back then was mocked quite a bit) was eventually taken seriously and thus influenced the entire project. As im not a mapper and just another player, it brought a tear to my eye :)

I post from a Vita so I can't type amazingly large things, but Map 20 looks to be my favourite, for obvious reasons. For the music, at least one TNT remix was made, gives me hope fr Wormhole's amazing track, Death's Bells, to be kept in or remixed. Thanks for starting it at Last Call, TNT always did imply there was more to it.

Thirdly, the suggestion of the TNT community project to match Plutonia, if it happens please consider using the name I suggested for this project back when it was just TNT2, I suggested TNT: Revilution. It'd match Plutonia Revisited! (Evilution Revisited) I know its probably years away, but hey!

And in closing, a more personal bit, thanks Kyka for taking that suggestion seriously, nice to know my thoughts can indeed matter to projects in progress, even if I have no ability to make anything myself *replies to your reply a looong time ago* My computer never did get fixed :(

Yeah I remember you made some really good suggestions. The project is better for it. Thank you too.

Man it is hard to believe that I have been involved with this project for more than 2 years already. And it had been going for a while already before that. Wow.

Just FYI, map 01 has been expanded and is now bigger (and hopefully better) than the one that was released in the demo. (All those existing areas are there, pretty much as they were. And there is a wormhole tribute map in there, which I have decided in the last week to call "Wormhold" or something silly like that. Can't say about the music though, have only heard the new tracks that were released with the demo, and a couple of other tracks.

In other news, a new version by t.v.

http://i.imgur.com/TjU0L.png

has replaced this texture which was my humble attempt.

http://i.imgur.com/agksd.png

Last edited by KiiiYiiiKiiiA on 11-27-12 at 02:36

11-27-12 02:22 #

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hawkwind
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Pottus said:
Sounds good Purist, I just said what I thought, Hawkwind is better than me at identifying game play flaws I'm more attuned to aesthetics. Anyways I can do a realignment on that map if your would like, primarily as mentioned ROCK5 and REDROCK1.

I consider picking up on gameplay flaws my weakest area in playtesting. Most other regular playtesters I find are much better than myself. I also noticed the "rock" misalignment, but like pottus, I decided not to mention it in my report, being a "natural" feature. Like you, Pottus, I am better at aesthetics over gameplay. I consider my forte general bug hunting ...

11-27-12 02:34 #

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Pottus
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I can agree with that, Hawkwind play testers don't have the same kind of technical outlook as mappers and therefore were probably looking for other things that the play testers wouldn't think twice about. At least you get to rip my map apart in a few days I look forward to reviewing what you see it will help me to identify where I can improve.

11-27-12 02:53 #

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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title

Posts: 822
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The problems with having a highly creative mind but no ability to make use of it in a Doom level editor. I would have been making those ideas reality if I could. Amusingly I have similar issues in Minecraft, I always have overambitious projects that make people facepalm. My brother is the one with the technical mind, and hes now trying out Doom editing after my recent Doom spree

Kyka, for what its worth, I vote "Terminus Veridian" as the name for your green map out of the ones suggested so far. Veridian Twilight for secondary choice, because Twilight gets used an awful lot. My brother suggests "Event Horizon" as the wormhole tribute name, im not sure, it sounds too plain. I myself was thinking of expanding the two dimensions into three or four, but yeah, the original had "normal" and "dead" which was what was so cool (along with the sound effects they put in near the portal to sound like it was some sort of portal. Sounded very distinct in the PS1 version)

Is that demo still available? I never got to play it. My brother's computer works, so I'd be able to give it a try on there.

11-27-12 08:58 #

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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Ragnor said:
The problems with having a highly creative mind but no ability to make use of it in a Doom level editor. I would have been making those ideas reality if I could. Amusingly I have similar issues in Minecraft, I always have overambitious projects that make people facepalm. My brother is the one with the technical mind, and hes now trying out Doom editing after my recent Doom spree

Possibly you and your brother could team up. You be the creative genius, and your brother can be the dude chained in the basement slaving over Doombuilder and Slade3 to perfect your mapping creations. Or something like that. Just remember to feed him. Anyway, the point is, sometimes creatives and technical people can do remarkable things together.

Ragnor said:
Kyka, for what its worth, I vote "Terminus Veridian" as the name for your green map out of the ones suggested so far. Veridian Twilight for secondary choice, because Twilight gets used an awful lot. My brother suggests "Event Horizon" as the wormhole tribute name, im not sure, it sounds too plain. I myself was thinking of expanding the two dimensions into three or four, but yeah, the original had "normal" and "dead" which was what was so cool (along with the sound effects they put in near the portal to sound like it was some sort of portal. Sounded very distinct in the PS1 version)

See now expanding the wormhole's two parts into three or four would have been cool. For the sake of argument, let us pretend that the first two parts were in the original wormhole map, and the third part has turned up in the new map in TNT2. But where is the fourth part?????

Also, I think Viridian Twilight is currently my favorite name, though Terminus Viridian is a close second. Much better than "The Green Mile" which was what I was originally going to call it.

And I really like Event Horizon, though I am not sure it suits the wormhole map. In fact, it is a really good name for my green map 29. Wait until you see the exit to that final map. That whole area really is a big event horizon.

Some other names I came up with for the wormhole map.

Wormhole Terminus.
Viridian Wormhole
Worm Horizon

And my personal favorite

Wormizon.

Yesssss!!!!!! You know you all like it !!!!!!! (◕‿◕)

Ragnor said:
Is that demo still available? I never got to play it. My brother's computer works, so I'd be able to give it a try on there.

Tell you what. I'll PM you the demo. But I'll go one better. I'll send you the four maps in the demo, but they will be the current, updated versions rather than the original demo versions. Sweet deal eh. Only thing is, you gotta promise not to, say, sell them on ebay and whatnot. :)

I am going to be sending these latest versions to the testers soon anyway, so all good.

cheers bro.

11-27-12 12:46 #

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purist
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Pottus said:
Sounds good Purist, I just said what I thought, Hawkwind is better than me at identifying game play flaws I'm more attuned to aesthetics. Anyways I can do a realignment on that map if your would like, primarily as mentioned ROCK5 and REDROCK1.

If you really don't mind that would be great Pottus. I'm working on Hadephobia this week so I'll do the other fixes after you'll done those re-alignments. Thanks!

Pottus said:
Also, you said Hawkwinds points all sound sensible and easily implemented does that make all my points non-sense? LOL! :D

Now now Pottus, Mother loves her playtesters all the same :-P

Speaking of which...

KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:
Hey purist, I have just PM'd you my thoughts on your map 25. Great map.

Thank you, that's very kind of you to say. I have read your notes and whilst there's quite a bit to get my teeth into they most seem quick fixes. I don't disagree with any of them either.

I've thought of a couple of ideas for the demon/arachnatron and cyb battles that should spice them up a notch.

The areas that a square was me being overly cautious of VPO limits but those areas are quite safe so I can afford to add more angles.

11-27-12 12:52 #

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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title

Posts: 822
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Sounds good Kyka, If its okay with you I'll get my brother to play the demo too, hes not a hardcore Doomer with nostalgia for TNT (Im really itching to play it again, thanks to the PS3 collection
staring me in the face) but a lot of respect for the game, so it might be interesting feedback.

Also, in applying Terminus to the wormhole map...how about "Terminus Singularity"? Im thinking up tech words at this point. Feels like I'll be stealing names from Mass Effect at this rate! What would you do for the themes of the other identical areas in it? Hell version, living flesh version, voidish version? If it does become four, I suggest having them wrapped around, say, an imaginary singularity
*>*
^@v
*<*
Like so, the arrows are the level segment "clones". A level theme of different dimensional states of the same area, trapped in a perpetual vortex, where you must break out of the cycle? All within vanilla constraints. Just have to think of interesting ways to make it work I guess. Does anyone else have some ideas for this kind of level?

11-27-12 13:17 #

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Megamur
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You know what would be a cool but impractical idea for the Wormhole map? If each different version of the main map was made by another mapper. Same basic layout, several unique spins on the idea. But it would probably be too hard to coordinate something like that.

11-29-12 00:38 #

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GBT3
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Posts: 136
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I have better idea for this:

1 - normal version

2 - hellish version

3 - living flesh/organic version

4 - totally electronic/virtual version

Kind of how it was implemented with VIOS in Doom2 RPG with Hell possessing cyberspace and electronics summoning it's own hellish realm. Each map part in hub way like normal -> flesh (transition part to hell) -> hellish -> electronic (transition part to normal).

Last edited by GBT3 on 11-29-12 at 01:09

11-29-12 01:01 #

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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title

Posts: 822
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Megamur's idea is a good one, I'd like to see that happen. GBT3, wouldnt that require a whole new texture set just for that one portion? Cyberspace levels, from memory, often arent too well-liked in Doom mods. You'd need an advanced sourceport to really do that idea justice, in my view.

Further ideas for Wormhole: (As my favourite TNT map, my head is flooded with ideas and concepts for this, let me know what you think) First of all, I believe all maps should begin with a story behind them, what the level is, what happened there, what you must do, etc, and for Wormhole, expanding on the idea of multiple variations, I thought of a facility that expands on the portal tech that started TNT off in the first place, and how this level had a catastrophic failure in its device, tearing the fabric of reality apart. First area will naturally be the TNT techbase style, second should be the "dead world" from the original. Further aspects will likely be fiery hell and/or organic hell. I think the level should end in (or at least feature) a shattered portal in a void if possible (Maybe an Episode 2 map for that sky?), give a sense that the area is the epicentre of the warped reality.

A simpler idea (because this IS vanilla and what I thought of might not be doable in a convincing manner) would be a stable start and end area (Original Wormhole starts and ends in the same area, but I think the exit should REQUIRE the full level) and that you need to enter the wrecked facility and its alternate aspects and return alive to exit. Maybe during the return, set up a teleport chain that feels like your being thrown around dimensions before being thrwon out into the start area, kind of like in Half-Life 2 for a visual comparison?

11-29-12 11:27 #

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Pottus
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Sounds good Purist is the version I have the most current? Or will you need to send an updated one?

11-29-12 14:34 #

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purist
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The version you have is up to date. I've not changed anything since I uploaded it as I'm working on getting Hadephobia beta 3 out at the moment.

11-29-12 15:24 #

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GBT3
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Ragnor said:
GBT3, wouldnt that require a whole new texture set just for that one portion? Cyberspace levels, from memory, often arent too well-liked in Doom mods. You'd need an advanced sourceport to really do that idea justice, in my view.

No need for new textures, remember this is Doom 2 game but also TNT so there's often tech themes and hell has more electronic/cybernetic/flesh mix than any other of these games. Don't leave for sourceport things that are possible in vanilla. TNT electronic/tech is not HacX. All what is necessary to do smaller parts of the map connected with the main ones (normal/tech and hellish/dead/void). Flesh part connecting normal to hellish can be done in way of umbilical cord to some malformed undead hellspawn and by leaving in hell..

There always been too much in using human technology in twisted way, even otherworlds had this done in strange way, hell with tech/electronic/cybernetic/flesh in default vanilla TNT. So when you leave hell/void the futher you go, the more is mechanical/electronic to the point where is normal/tech again. Again, NOT in Hacx way just in way where hell/void merged it's reality with human technology in mangled, weird way.

11-29-12 16:06 #

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Whoo
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purist, for future reference you can send your map to me as well for feedback.

And everyone start submitting your maps as soon as possible.

If you've sent me a version of your map in the past, it wouldn't hurt to resend it again to make sure I have the latest one.

TheMionicDonut said:

spoiler - highlight to read:

Do you want me to use COMPEYE more often in map30? I can put it in a few places. Also, you want me to drop one or two in map28? They werent part of the texture pack when I made the map.

Also, New testing version forthcoming, it makes the puzzle a little less...impossible.

Yes to both of the questions.

Ragnor said:
I've read EVERY post in this thread over the last few days, and I love everything thats happened since I first posted back in 2009. Cant beleive my suggestion to touch up the textures (which back then was mocked quite a bit) was eventually taken seriously and thus influenced the entire project. As im not a mapper and just another player, it brought a tear to my eye :)

Yeah, it's hard to think that it's already been over three years since alter and I decided to start the project.

KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:
Can't say about the music though, have only heard the new tracks that were released with the demo, and a couple of other tracks.

Most of the music that I still had from when the project first started was in the demo. We'll have to get some MIDI Composers in here soon. Jimmy will be easy to get a hold of, but I doubt I'll be able to find the rest of the original composers.

KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:
In other news, a new version by t.v.

http://i.imgur.com/TjU0L.png

Looks better than your version, but it looks a little cartoony to me. Guess there's no way to tell how it will look until it's in-game.

*Wormhole discussions*

These are all great ideas, but we're trying to get all the maps finished soon and I think something like Megamur or GBT3 suggested would take awhile longer than what we're shooting for.

11-29-12 20:53 #

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purist
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PM'd you the link Whoo. I did think it odd that you weren't among the playtesters. I look forward to your thoughts and hope you enjoy the map.

Version 2 of the draft should be ready in about a week and a half.

11-29-12 21:24 #

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Processingcontrol
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Just PM'd Whoo a small update to Map05.

I'm starting to speed up the work on Map06 after a month of not doing much to it. Thinking of calling it "aquarium".

11-30-12 04:14 #

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Xaser
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Ragnor said:
"Terminus Singularity"

This title -- and most of the others suggested before it -- is very word salad-y, but just "Singularity" by itself would work really well, IMO. It gets the reference across while being a short n' catchy name.

11-30-12 07:02 #

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Avoozl
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I don't really agree so much with the map name "Styx and Stones" as it feels like a pun out of "River Styx" which is obviously named after a Greek Mythology underworld location.

11-30-12 07:27 #

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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title

Posts: 822
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Xaser said:

This title -- and most of the others suggested before it -- is very word salad-y, but just "Singularity" by itself would work really well, IMO. It gets the reference across while being a short n' catchy name.

Okay I'll admit it: That was my first idea. Wormhole -> Singularity, as simple as two sections -> four sections. I added Terminus because I reaaaaly like that word >_> I blame Mass Effect.

11-30-12 11:40 #

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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@Ragnor. Have sent you the updated version of the 4 maps in the demo. Enjoy. And thanks for your input.

@Everybody else. New version of the texture pack just sent out, so if you didn't get it, throw rolls of soggy toilet paper at my house. Or post here, whichever is easier.

@Everyone discussing a new wormhole concept map: So... we have had pretty much the last 3 years where there would have been room for a map like this. And you guys come up with such a good idea like, now, in the last 4 weeks, when every mapslot has filled up (And several spare maps besides...) Dagmnammit. This would have made a great map too, if it was done right.

Oh well, there is always TNT3.

(On a side note, I feel as if Xaser would really like it if we called TNT3 something like: "TNT3: Revilution Terminus Singularity Horizon Complex."

On second thoughts, hold the salad.

11-30-12 13:40 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

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Avoozl said:
I don't really agree so much with the map name "Styx and Stones" as it feels like a pun out of "River Styx" which is obviously named after a Greek Mythology underworld location.

It's a good pun, and TNT does have a level named Ballistyx (MAP26).

11-30-12 13:43 #

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Eris Falling
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:
Oh well, there is always TNT3.

TNT 3 eh? If that takes off expect an Eridian Map :P

11-30-12 16:09 #

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TheMionicDonut
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Gez said:

It's a good pun, and TNT does have a level named Ballistyx (MAP26).

As the sorry mofo responsible for the map and the name of the map I can say that Gez summed it up: that was the line of thought.

But don't worry, the map contains a hellish river and lots of stoney textures. It lives up to its name, instead of being a shameless pun.

Not as shameless as "Bloody Hell", which was the working title for the map, when I started it.

11-30-12 23:56 #

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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title

Posts: 822
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After a quick look at the demo (Using keyboard only on a laptop with a cracked screen mind you), I like it. Looks and feels very much like TNT, you guys have succeeded!

The new skies are great, but Episode 2's sky...truly amazing. If a third TNT appears, please reuse it :D Also, the new barbed wire is brilliant. To me, it was always an old barbed wire fence with plant life growing on it, and after being replaced it still looks that way, just a lot clearer and cleaner, which is exactly the kind of thing I suggested back in 2009.

I'll play through it properly on my TV this weekend and give my thoughts on the levels themselves and such. Thanks for the demo Kyka! (for like the third time)

12-01-12 02:23 #

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Xaser
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Damn you all and your barbed wire "vines." I'll submit a proper texture for it at some point since you're all so stubborn. :P

12-01-12 02:58 #

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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title

Posts: 822
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TNT4: Evineution - A Barb in Xaser's Side

12-01-12 06:00 #

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Xaser
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In totally-not-vinebarb-related other news:

http://i.imgur.com/9d93il.png

Picked up work on Nostalgia Drive. Sometimes I feel that taming vanilla limits is a bit like bull riding. Sure, it keeps bucking me off, but I'll be damned if I'm not gonna last 8 seconds without getting a seg overflow. O:

[EDIT] Imgur's being weird and hasn't rendered the thumbnail yet, so it'll take some time to not look like a broken link. Should be clickable anyway. :P

[DOUBLE EDIT] Works now. NOOOOOOSSTAAALLGIA DRRRIIIIIIIVE! *ahem*

Last edited by Xaser on 12-01-12 at 08:21

12-01-12 08:06 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 9146
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:
(On a side note, I feel as if Xaser would really like it if we called TNT3 something like: "TNT3: Revilution Terminus Singularity Horizon Complex."

"The Damned Lands of TNT: Escape from the Singularity Terminus: Revilution on the Horizon Complex: The Official Game of the Movie: Chapter 3 of the Hoopz Doomguy SaGa - Not for TREND. Not for CORPORATE ATTITUDE. Not for STONER. Only true DOOM MURDER-HEADS."

12-01-12 11:15 #

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Megamur
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Xaser said:
Picked up work on Nostalgia Drive. Sometimes I feel that taming vanilla limits is a bit like bull riding. Sure, it keeps bucking me off, but I'll be damned if I'm not gonna last 8 seconds without getting a seg overflow. O:

Looks fantastic. And really, that's part of why vanilla maps appeal to me more: it's exciting to see how far authors can push the limits, and sometimes it's just mindblowing how much you can get away with.

Gez said:
"The Damned Lands of TNT: Escape from the Singularity Terminus: Revilution on the Horizon Complex: The Official Game of the Movie: Chapter 3 of the Hoopz Doomguy SaGa - Not for TREND. Not for CORPORATE ATTITUDE. Not for STONER. Only true DOOM MURDER-HEADS."

You forgot "Tyler Perry Presents."

12-01-12 11:51 #

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