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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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Soz dubbl post.

...Also, a few new textures.

http://i.imgur.com/D0HhdSl.png http://i.imgur.com/o24Ua9t.png http://i.imgur.com/ZwBYuXL.png http://i.imgur.com/cnZfe5b.png http://i.imgur.com/lrGPqs0.png http://i.imgur.com/RdNeSzv.png http://i.imgur.com/3wp3ivn.png http://i.imgur.com/eNy7tE2.png

Old Post 01-31-13 09:19 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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Nice to see some more progress.

Old Post 02-01-13 12:11 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Turnback texture seems well enough. The whole notion may be redundant if I am redoing as much of map30 as I am expected to.

We will see when we get to that.

Lovely new textures though

Old Post 02-01-13 19:24 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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*resurrects thread*

Just finished Map 2. The opening reminded me of Redemption, and several other areas reminded me of other TNT areas. Saw a bit reminiscent of TNT Map 20 too. I found several things that could use a fix, along with a lot of automap errors.

Its a great followup to Map 1, and leads into Map 3, so there seems to be a theme of progression going on. The monsters and weapons were well done, the Revenants were pure OH CRAP moments, in a base full of low tier monstes (but done well. Spectres = masterfully used)

Also, the issue I had with Map 1's TNT logoin GZDoom is gone :D

I took a pile of screenshots, so I'll upload them and send Kyka a more detailed version

Old Post 02-05-13 01:37 #
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Megamur
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I am extremely happy to be working on this project as a tester. However, I do sometimes wish that we had a bit more coordination with testing duties. There's been more than one instance where I've had a map receive major updates as I'm in the process of testing it, effectively nullifying my work, since I'm now testing an out-of-date version.

I sometimes wonder if it would be better if each tester were assigned a certain amount of map slots that they were dedicated to, like one tester would focus exclusively on MAP01-05, and then another would only test MAP06-10, and so on. Or perhaps they would be rotated: tester #1 would test MAP01-05, then alterations would be made based on their suggestions, and the updated MAP01-05 would then go to tester #2. Meanwhile, tester #1 would receive a new batch of maps to work on that tester #3 had just finished critiquing. Just seems like it'd be more efficient that way, though I admit that it runs the risk of slowing the process down if one of the testers is taking too long, or if one of the mappers can't apply the alterations in a timely fashion.

Heck, maybe even testing deadlines would help: the testers have however many days to complete testing before work begins on the next update.

Just seems like there could be a better way to do this, but maybe this is just how testing works with all MegaWADs.


EDIT: It's no big deal, though. So I have to retest a level or two. So what? It's my job.

Last edited by Megamur on 02-07-13 at 02:38

Old Post 02-06-13 04:13 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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Dear god, Map 29, Brown Map, took me all goddamn day to complete, and I kind of want to slap Kyka for some of the things I had to suffer through. Some of the fights are completely unfair and need a bit of tuning, I dont enjoy being trapped in one fight for an hour or more :/

The map itself looks really good, it really fits its map slot now. I would like a bit of "fusion" though, the name of the level was decided to be Veridian Twilight...but it doesnt feel right anymore. I'll have to IDDQD + IDCLIP the original green version for a full comparison.

Total killcount btw: 1153. I swear 1/5th of those are Revenants >_>

As usual, a screenshot laden report will be sent later, including stuff from the new version of Map 2

Old Post 02-07-13 09:52 #
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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Megamur said:
I am extremely happy to be working on this project as a tester. However, I do sometimes wish that we had a bit more coordination with testing duties. There's been more than one instance where I've had a map receive major updates as I'm in the process of testing it, effectively nullifying my work, since I'm now testing an out-of-date version.

I sometimes wonder if it would be better if each tester were assigned a certain amount of map slots that they were dedicated to, like one tester would focus exclusively on MAP01-05, and then another would only test MAP06-10, and so on. Or perhaps they would be rotated: tester #1 would test MAP01-05, then alterations would be made based on their suggestions, and the updated MAP01-05 would then go to tester #2. Meanwhile, tester #1 would receive a new batch of maps to work on that tester #3 had just finished critiquing. Just seems like it'd be more efficient that way, though I admit that it runs the risk of slowing the process down if one of the testers is taking too long, or if one of the mappers can't apply the alterations in a timely fashion.

Heck, maybe even testing deadlines would help: the testers have however many days to complete testing before work begins on the next update.

Just seems like there could be a better way to do this, but maybe this is just how testing works with all MegaWADs.


EDIT: It's no big deal, though. So I have to retest a level or two. So what? It's my job.



All you testers have simply done an amazing job. This is partly my fault, and partly the fault of the testing system where we have all the mappers send their maps individually to all the testers. When I get results from a tester, I go and make those changes and then send the updated maps out to the testers again, figuring it might save them some time if they have an improved version of the map to work with if the haven't already tested it.

The limitation to doing it like this is, of course, sending them an improved version would undermine their testing if they have already tested an earlier version, which is what has obviously happened in this case.

Possibly we need to have one person in charge of coordinating all the testing, rather than have maps going everywhere from every mapper to every tester. I'll see what whoo thinks of this idea.


Ragnor said:
Dear god, Map 29, Brown Map, took me all goddamn day to complete, and I kind of want to slap Kyka for some of the things I had to suffer through. Some of the fights are completely unfair and need a bit of tuning, I dont enjoy being trapped in one fight for an hour or more :/



Which fight was that, btw?




The map itself looks really good, it really fits its map slot now. I would like a bit of "fusion" though, the name of the level was decided to be Veridian Twilight...but it doesnt feel right anymore. I'll have to IDDQD + IDCLIP the original green version for a full comparison.



...Because 'brown twilight' doesn't have a very good ring to it. lolllololllol

If anyone is feeling creative, see what names you guys can come up with. I am curious. Something relating to 'brown' and 'final'.



Total killcount btw: 1153. I swear 1/5th of those are Revenants >_>



Actually there are 82 revenants (on UV out of a total of 994,) so about 8%. Though given their high damage, and the fact that said damage can follow you around like some weird pet, it probably does seem that there are revenants around every corner.



As usual, a screenshot laden report will be sent later, including stuff from the new version of Map 2




I look forward to your feedback, my man.

And now, for no good reason, a mass of screenies from various levels.

http://i.imgur.com/SFERlyl.png

http://i.imgur.com/epWImyO.png

http://i.imgur.com/zSzP4IL.png

http://i.imgur.com/PxiMXLf.png

http://i.imgur.com/dPJPPxc.png

Last edited by KiiiYiiiKiiiA on 02-07-13 at 14:30

Old Post 02-07-13 14:24 #
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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MoarScreeniesSozDubblPost...

http://i.imgur.com/txwPXkK.png

http://i.imgur.com/xiInjE6.png

http://i.imgur.com/hXI0MZK.png

http://i.imgur.com/Lm8BA4a.png

http://i.imgur.com/Cb6s2kx.png

Old Post 02-07-13 14:27 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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Feedback should be in your inbox by now ;]

Man, my computer even bluescreened during a large Revenant fight.

I'll be having "time off" from testing tomorrow (My brother's getting pissy about a DVD TV series ive put off two days in a row thanks to Doom), but you can expect Map 3+ during the weekend

Old Post 02-07-13 14:31 #
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Not Jabba
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:
[B]
...Because 'brown twilight' doesn't have a very good ring to it. lolllololllol


How about Ochre Twilight? Sepia? Russet? Auburn?

Or Burnt Sienna Twilight :P

Last edited by Not Jabba on 02-08-13 at 02:10

Old Post 02-07-13 17:59 #
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GBT3
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What about Rusty Hellway? Or Damned Speculations. Also Infernis Obscura.

Old Post 02-07-13 18:29 #
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Megamur
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Maybe "Rusted Shut." The game is coming to a close, effectively shutting the door behind you as you step into the final map. Or, looking at it another way, it's a really tough level that'll take a long time to crack open, like a door that's grown rusty. :)

I do think the green version was more distinctive, but boy, it's still a really good-looking map. And the brown and red just feels more oppressive. I've only done a skill 2 playthrough so far, and I still ended up with TIME SUCKS. Most of the problems I've encountered so far are minor nitpicks and stuff that probably won't affect people not playing Chocolate Doom.

Old Post 02-08-13 02:03 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Rusted Threshold.

Old Post 02-08-13 03:12 #
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Processingcontrol
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Terminal Fulvus

Old Post 02-08-13 03:30 #
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Xaser
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"Rusted Shut" is probably the best title suggested thus far. Not too word-salad-y.

Old Post 02-08-13 03:43 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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I disagree with all of them. Fun fact: In my detailed feedback PM I actually typed "Ochre Twilight" but replaced it with brown at the last second. I beleive the name should hint towards the awesome end room.

Old Post 02-08-13 04:18 #
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Whoo
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Been awhile since I posted in this thread (thanks to school), so I'm going to start contacting authors of maps I don't have yet soon.


Megamur said:
I am extremely happy to be working on this project as a tester. However, I do sometimes wish that we had a bit more coordination with testing duties. There's been more than one instance where I've had a map receive major updates as I'm in the process of testing it, effectively nullifying my work, since I'm now testing an out-of-date version.

I sometimes wonder if it would be better if each tester were assigned a certain amount of map slots that they were dedicated to, like one tester would focus exclusively on MAP01-05, and then another would only test MAP06-10, and so on.



I never thought of this, but that's actually a pretty neat idea. Once I have all the maps and a final wad put together I think I'll have the testing go down that route.

Last edited by Whoo on 02-09-13 at 14:13

Old Post 02-08-13 21:15 #
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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That is totally cool, as long as all the maps are ultimately tested by all the testers. Because in the feedback I have had from the testers, every one of them without exception has found things that none of the others have. Every map has to go through these guys.

All of the testers find the majority of the bugs, but in addition, I notice this:

Hawkwind has exceptional attention to detail and finds small misalignments in textures, out of place flats, and, let's call it 'thing management.' (For example, he pointed out to me that a couple of the teleport things were not showing up on 'easy' skill, a tough thing to notice if you aren't testing thoroughly.)

Megamur, in addition to great attention to detail also, is really really good at finding visiplane/drawseg overflows. He finds them apparently everywhere, and thank God he does, particularly for a vanilla project like this.

And Ragnor:. The automap specialist. Notices every linedef on an automapp apparently! And is really good with overall gameplay flow and stuff like monster and health balance.

To have any map not go through all of these guys would be to the detriment of the project, I think.

Last edited by KiiiYiiiKiiiA on 02-10-13 at 04:36

Old Post 02-09-13 13:36 #
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purist
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While we're spreading the love, I'll add that I found the playtesting feedback for my map in this project both helpful and insightful - a good mix of technical, aesthetical and playability notes to improve my level on all fronts. I really felt like the guys understood what I was trying to do and I learnt stuff that not only improved my level but improved me as a mapper. Kyka, I'm including you in this too - I found your feedback particulary humble, respectful and more often than not, on the mark.

I should also say that I have a new version of Spider Colony on my HD that Megamur has assisted with that I still need to get around to playing and approving.

Old Post 02-09-13 14:11 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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I should probably change my avatar to a computer map now..

Ive always had a bit of an obsession with the automap, sometimes I'll go out of my way to map EVERY line before finishing a level. Its no surprise that I'm finding odd things that dont belong or dont look right on the map. Found such an error on Mionic Donut's map that he sent me too, so its not just you, Kyka :)

I like to consider myself "average/above average" in skill (I cant beat things like Hell Revealed or Deus Vult) so I guess thats why I'm pointing out balance things, I'm no superhuman dodger that fists Cyberdemons one handed.

Anyone sending me maps should probably know that I go slowly; I play Doom like its an adventure rather than a monsterfilled series of rooms to kill through, so I will hunt down every secret, explore every area (even if its not meant to be explored) and generally take a damn long time to get a report sent, especially if the map wears me out. After Kyka's Map 29, I was literally sore for a whole day afterwards. 8 hour Doom testing sessions = not healthy :p Yes, I took that long, Donut's map was about 7 hours to test

To be honest, I'm VERY surprised Ive done well at the testing at all, so thanks for writing that. I guess I'm not a side-tester anymore though :p

Old Post 02-09-13 15:11 #
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TheMionicDonut
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1. Which map of mine do you speak of?
2. Have you tested the other one?
3. Does nobody get the joke on the automap?

Old Post 02-09-13 18:02 #
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Ragnor
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That would be Map 24. I was only sent that one

Automap joke? Im referring to a very small tunnel in a cavern that was flagged as invisible walls, that didnt seem to have a reason for it.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/th_Screenshot_Doom_20130102_145556.png
(I'll remove this image if you dont want public screenshots)

Old Post 02-09-13 23:31 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Id prefer it hidden thank you. But yes that is it.
You aren't looking hard enough or have not been watching the same shows I watched growing up.

Regardless, I will also send you map28 in a few minutes.

Old Post 02-09-13 23:33 #
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Ragnor
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Fair enough. I WAS looking for things out of the ordinary :p

28 eh? I predict another 8 hour testing session tomorrow

Old Post 02-09-13 23:36 #
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Megamur
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Thank you very much for the kind words, Kyka. You yourself seem absolutely tireless with this project. endlessly making tweaks and getting maps sent out to all the testers, and you're very understanding and easy to work with. You never take my critiques personally, which I really appreciate. I never want to offend with my feedback, but I figure it's better I complain about things, lest the map be released and the whole community complains.

As for visplane overflows, I admit to playing RenderLimits almost like a minigame, moving around erratically, looking in every direction and standing everywhere I can to see if I can get that counter up to 128. I feel like I win a prize when I do. :)

I do not always note segs overflows, I admit. Sometimes you just don't see them unless you're specifically looking for them, so I figure those can be left alone. It's the ones that create giant swaths of HOM in really noticeable areas that I note.

Do take your time with the modified Spider Colony I did, purist. Again, don't feel obligated to use it. I tried to keep the modifications fairly minor though.

My MAP29 testing is still incomplete. I'm dreading my skill 4 playthrough. I couldn't even beat skill 3 without dying once. I have a feeling I'm going to need to retest this map after it receives a few additional modifications in order to give truly complete feedback.

Old Post 02-10-13 02:28 #
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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Whoo and any interested party:

Couple of quick questions..

1) Nojump and nocrouch will be [edit, thanks Memfis}enabled[/edit] for ports such as PrBoom and ZDoom, I am assuming? This is just so I don't have to put block lines in certain areas of certain maps.

2)Also, would it be considered acceptable to require a straferun jump to pick up a required item such as a key? Not a difficult, precision straferun, just a regular straferun across three wide platforms?

Thoughts?

Last edited by KiiiYiiiKiiiA on 02-11-13 at 15:10

Old Post 02-11-13 14:39 #
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Memfis
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Heh, not sure what you mean. Disabled nojump means that jumping is enabled, right? :) (double negative)
If you suggest disabling jumping, I want to warn you that some ZDoom users will get pissed about that. :) There are people who like to jump/crouch even in vanilla maps, not necessarily to break the intended routes but just because they are used to do that. So if you care about that, maybe a better solution is to simply explain the intended playing style in the readme and not force any restrictrions.

Old Post 02-11-13 14:52 #
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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:
This is just so I don't have to put block lines in certain areas of certain maps.


There is no way to disable jumping in Eternity.

Also, you can force ZDoom to allow jumping in the gameplay options menu.


So, if you'd rather be safe than sorry, mark lines as blocking where appropriate.

Old Post 02-11-13 15:05 #
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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Thanks for your thoughts.

I see, having just checked, that both Plutonia2.wad and PRCP.wad had a mapinfo lump with nojump and nocrouch in there. This is more what I meant in case I hadn't explained it very well.

I have no issue with people being able to enable jumping and crouching, but I think it would be best if these were disabled, at least by default where possible.

Old Post 02-11-13 15:19 #
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hawkwind
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:
Whoo and any interested party:

Couple of quick questions..

1) Nojump and nocrouch will be [edit, thanks Memfis}enabled[/edit] for ports such as PrBoom and ZDoom, I am assuming? This is just so I don't have to put block lines in certain areas of certain maps.

2)Also, would it be considered acceptable to require a straferun jump to pick up a required item such as a key? Not a difficult, precision straferun, just a regular straferun across three wide platforms?

Thoughts?



Regarding jumping, I too, think the use of impassible lines is best. If you are alluding map 29 and those evil-eyes, you could simply put one impassible line straight through each one, referencing both sidedefs to the sector they are in - less lines.

Regarding straferun, I'm not a fan of it as it is "unnatural". If it must be used, I suggest using it only for reaching secret areas.

Old Post 02-11-13 21:47 #
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