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Kyka
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Jodwin said:

Ehhh, no, actually the gameplay hasn't been changed much at all. It was "tough" because the map was originally broken in ZDoom, but worked fine in boom (hey, that's two maps so far in Claus 2 which have been anti-ZDoom :D ).



Hmmm. Well Jodwin, you are probably right. It would be near a year ago that I worked on this.

Though I am sure that in the original, the monsters didn't telefrag each other, which would make things tougher. And a few other weapon placements/monster changes that I recall differently. Or is my memory that bad? Probably ^^

Old Post 10-14-09 05:17 #
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Jodwin
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Kyka said:
Though I am sure that in the original, the monsters didn't telefrag each other

Hmm, that's because it wasn't originally map30 (but it's the best fitting for map30 out of the maps in Claus2)...good point. Maybe at least the blood pit teleport could be made monster blocking...

Old Post 10-14-09 05:29 #
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gggmork
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Good point, never thought about 30 telefrags (especially since I only played it as 26). Maybe pm me the 30 version and I could test as 30 (telefrags might kinda mess up the map though, not sure). Or maybe that's not necessary if I'm not too retarded to figure out how to make it map 30 myself without redownloading it (I guess just copy paste lines/things over to a new doombuilder map 30).

I guess there wasn't any other intended map 30?

Old Post 10-14-09 05:46 #
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Jodwin
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gggmork said:
Good point, never thought about 30 telefrags (especially since I only played it as 26). Maybe pm me the 30 version and I could test as 30 (telefrags might kinda mess up the map though, not sure). Or maybe that's not necessary if I'm not too retarded to figure out how to make it map 30 myself without redownloading it (I guess just copy paste lines/things over to a new doombuilder map 30).

I guess there wasn't any other intended map 30?


You can also open the wad in XWE or other lump editor and rename the map26 lump to map30. The telefrags aren't that noticeable though...it mostly matters if revenants or chaingunners in the blood pit teleport to the SSG platform where they can't get out of the way of new teleporters.

Yeah, there's no boss brain map in Claus 2...and the ending of Abstraction is fitting enough for map30 IMO. ;)

Old Post 10-14-09 08:30 #
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Kyka
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MAP06 Severed Survival (Fisk)
-----

ARCHITECTURE:
-First off, WAYYY TOO MANY THEMES. There was the central mudbrick area, the tan marble/blood area, the red brick/hell area, like 4 green marble areas, 3 Grey areas and several plain brown brick areas. You can get away with probably 2 of these. The whole thing just doesn't work for me, just a whole lot of separate rooms.
-The sky viewing area at sectors 210, 203 looks wrong given there is a big room behind it
-The green lights on the start door look poo and don't go with anything.
-I should mention that I actually like the look of many individual rooms, but all together, it doesn't work.

GAMEPLAY:
-The only real thing was the plasma gun. First half of level = good fun. Second half of level = run around plasma spamming.
Other than this, gameplay was actually pretty good.

MAP07 Into Hell (KingKill33)
-----

ARCHITECTURE:
-Ok, I will be the first to admit I loooove KingKill's levels. And this one looks awesome. It is unique, and it really stands out. Nice work.

GAMEPLAY:
-Ok So I really liked the gameplay on this level. Pretty brutal with all those mancs. I guess the problem is not with the level in itself, but the fact that it is so much harder than any previous levels. And seeing as the goal is to greate a reasonably smooth difficulty progression, this one is a major bump in the road.
The second wave of 8 mancs, you could have them teleport in two groups of 4 perhaps?
The arachnotron section of the level always seemed to turn into me cowering in one corner of the map smiping with a double barrel. Which I have no problem with, but I can see how not everyone likes it like this.
I am not sure the best thing to do with this level, but that is my thoughts anyway.

MAP08 Minimal House (Daimon)
-----

ARCHITECTURE:
-the play area of the level looks pretty strong, but the surrounding areas look blocky and cheap, making a pretty good level look much worse than it actually is.
-linedef 1455 is misaligned.



GAMEPLAY:
-Bit confusing in places.
-The floor raising/lowering at sector 413 seems a bit pointless, unless I am missing something. You can just run across that gap without needing the floor to be there. Or make it that it raises/lowers instantly.
-The shoot switch at sector 212 probably could be glowing or something to draw peoples attention to it. I wandered around lost for ages, though this is at least partly my observational skills that are at fault.
-The entire central outside area should be raise up until it is at the same floor level as sector 107. Otherwise you wind up getting shot up by monsters you can't see. It would remove most of the gameplay problems with this level.
-The imps, cacodemons and the shotgunners outside of the level are a little pointless. Especially the cacodemons, seeing as they can't hit you at all. The window in front of you is too high for them to shoot through.
-Lines 1451, 1457 need to be impassable.

MAP09 Handful of Dread (Dreadopp)
-----

ARCHITECTURE:
-Totally not sold on the STNE_N26 brick texture used in one of the corridors.
-Few brick textures need alignment. eg 253-318, 342 -268


GAMEPLAY:
-Hellknight cannot get through the door at sector 139
-the lost souls (thing 54, 55, 56) are a bit pointless.

MAP10 Metallic Echo. (Stewboy)
-----

ARCHITECTURE:
-Sector 124 should have the same floor flat as the sector around it when it lowers into the ground
-Linedefs 349, 858 need aligning.
The exit teleporter looks a bit squashed. Minor thing tho.
-Overall I liked this level a lot. Great design.

GAMEPLAY:
-Pretty sweet all up.
-Possibly a touch more health in the first 1/3 of the level, but is probably ok.

Last edited by Kyka on 10-14-09 at 09:22

Old Post 10-14-09 09:14 #
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gggmork
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Yeah, the telefrags screw it up (especially the end; all enemies teleport on top of eachother). And blocking enemies from that blood warp would mostly suck imo.

How hard would it be to (preferably the first probably):

-remove the telefrags from 30 (with xwe or maybe dehacked or whatever) if even possible

-maybe the map could go to 33 (or 31/32 if not already taken) then 30 could be some sort of dummy map that just warps the player to 33 or something. Maps beyond 32 are lame though because its technically hard to play them afaik.

Old Post 10-14-09 17:51 #
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Jodwin
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gggmork said:
Yeah, the telefrags screw it up (especially the end; all enemies teleport on top of eachother). And blocking enemies from that blood warp would mostly suck imo.

For the end, wouldn't it be possible to just move the teleport destinations for the revenants further back? Then delay the teleports a bit to avoid infighting with the mancs.

Also, for the blood pit monsters, how about this: Put monster-only teleport lines before the player teleport line that teleports the monsters on the floor level up, rather than on the SSG platform.

Old Post 10-14-09 18:13 #
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gggmork
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After googling, looks like it might be possible to remove map30 telefraging using 'MAPINFO' but I think that might only be for zdoom. Not sure if its possible for boom.

I doubt putting reverent warps further back would work (reverents would walk forward/backward and many would telefrag still, plus then the mouth would have to be wider and look worse, then you could just stand there and mancs would eventually telefrag the revs (and looks better when mancs are the first ones there imo)).

If there's no other options, I'd probably prefer to just put it on map 33 or something (I could maybe make a sort of dummy map30 that only functions to warp you to 33 or something, then again I don't think map 33 is normally accessible in game without using the command line.. if so maybe someone could make a new map 30 that doesn't warp to 33, then have this map just be command-line-only).

Old Post 10-14-09 21:53 #
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alterworldruler
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Okay so did anything new happen in testing this? Btw other people should fix my maps if there are any issues as recently my monitor on the work PC died so I can't access my maps neither test anything. You guys are free to modify my maps. Anywho Jodwin, I sent you the missing info :P

Old Post 10-20-09 11:11 #
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Snarboo
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I apologize for not testing any maps recently as I haven't felt very well. I'll try and have something up by the end of the week though.

Old Post 10-20-09 11:32 #
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gggmork
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I guess 'abstraction' is going to a post-32 level since map30 telefrag behavior screwed it up (since it used to be map26, thus previously didn't have that behavior).

To fill the resulting map30 void, I made a framework so far. Not finished at all (no gameplay now- but intend to take telefrags into account), but the sector movement (which took a zillion and a half mouse clicks and autism to figure out, since boom has to deal with adjacent sectors) looks pretty cool imo if anyone wants to see (needs that texture pack):
http://www.sendspace.com/file/47n6xk

Maybe I should call it:
My Dummy Sectors Have Dummy Sectors
(since they do to make the heights correct as far as I could figure out anyway- zdoom in hexen format would probably have been much easier).

Old Post 10-21-09 12:43 #
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Jodwin
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gggmork said:
I guess 'abstraction' is going to a post-32 level since map30 telefrag behavior screwed it up (since it used to be map26, thus previously didn't have that behavior).

Yeah, the whole mess with map30 is entirely my fault for not remembering that map30 always has monster telefrags enabled. :( You (testers) don't really need to test it right now, since the map is most likely going to be moved to an other map slot.


@gggmork: Heh, that beginning of a map looks like an idea that I had toyed with once (but never implemented because I was too lazy :) ). Only difference was that I would have had it happen in space with floating candles showing the floors.


@Snarboo (and others): There's not much of a deadline for testing, so basically you can take your time. Of course, if no one is going to do any testing in the end then it's going to stall or be released as a half assed wad, but whatever. :P It would be nice to get this out by the end of the year, but we'll see how things go. It's no matter of life and death.

...at least yet.

Old Post 10-21-09 12:53 #
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Snakes
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Sorry it's been so long since my last update, but I've been pretty busy that last couple of weeks. Finally got some more playing in.

Map 12 - I went somewhat insane playing this map. I love the layout, it's very intuitive, but the detail creates serious gameplay problems. It's very cramped to begin with, and this makes it even harder to move fluidly and dodge. Then the switches being 2 length... just frustrating. I feel it could be a strong map if it's toned down a notch.

Map 13 - Really cool map overall. Good looking, appropriate detail, lots of gameplay along the way. The ammo and health were balanced perfectly. My only two complaints are the 'gate' at the beginning feeling a bit unnecessary and the teleporter trap in the small blood-pit being kind of... well, 'meh.'

Map 14 - Decent-looking map, and some good monster placement. There is a slight surplus in health. The 2 bridges are within jumping distance with each other, and I stupidly try to pull that maneuver before reminding myself what a linedef is. Maybe a smidgen teleport-happy, but good overall.

Map15 - Wow... this one kept me sweatin'. I never did find the secret, as I straight-forgot to look for it (and the whole "0 secrets" thing). I had fun with the combo of sneaking plus very challenging gameplay with the shotgun. The only trap that got me numerous times was the double-revenant trap. I was low on ammo, and managed to land a punch for the killing blow on the second one.

Map16 - Again, the detail was a little overdone, making the movement harder than it should've been. The yellow-key battle was really well-executed, though the hell knights and barons had trouble getting around the switch. The biggest pain moment was getting out of the blue cage. That gun-activated switch is too hidden for what should be a somewhat mundane task.

Map17 - I really like this map and it's atmosphere. Good health balance kept me sweating. I'd suggest a platform around where the blue key lowers. When it lowers into the slime, it looks like this. Also, the Hell Knights at start are easy to fend off, the couldn't hit me over the wall.

Map18 - BYAAAAHHH!!!!! I really, really liked this map. This is what I feel a 1024 map SHOULD be. No unnecessary detail, constant, fast action, and a boatload of fun. I played this twice I had so much fun with it. Good, good job.

Map19 - This map is VERY complex, with a lot of linedef triggers and it's easy to forget what you just did after some action. The gameplay, though, is solid. I don't know if I'd make the medkit secret a secret, as the switch is plainly visible the award is kind of weak. Still, a great use of the 1024 space.

Map20 - Another good map, this one was a challenge. The didn't detract from the gameplay, which is always good. The arch-viles almost never attacked though, I don't know if that was intentional or not. The last room is very tight, and another great example of why these wads are so fun. Oh, and the music made me smile, even if doesn't exactly work as a midi (my opinion).

Great work, I'll get the rest done in the next week I think.

Old Post 10-22-09 04:32 #
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The Green Herring
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Well, I have reports for MAP31 and MAP32 ready, as well as MAP16-20. Sorry it took so long; school's been taking up much of my time lately. Before I show 'em, though, here's a much-belated reply:

walter confalonieri said:
@THG: Why do you think about "Little Doomsday" instead of "Doomchan"? It fixes well with map itself and with title (since means literally little doom)
Maybe you, man, you're not a goddamn weeaboo like me and jodwin, oh BTW...

That's the problem right there. Not only will 99.9% of the Doom community never get the reference, but even if they did, it still wouldn't be funny. "Doomchan" sounds stupid at worst and annoying at best. Anyway, "Little Doomsday" sounds better, but awkward. If I could choose a name, I'd take "A Minor Doomsday". It implies something being smaller, and (to me, at least) it sounds funny.

(BTW, it's spelled "TGH," although "THG" would be grammatically correct if it were Italian.)

Anyway, on with the reports. Same port and -complevel as before, only I'm using PrBoom+ 2.5.0.4. (I used it in my previous reports, too, but I don't think I mentioned it.)

MAP31: Somewhere That's Green
PMed to Jodwin, as per his suggestion, to avoid spoiling a secret level. Let's just say there's a huge list of things to point out.

MAP32: Proceed With Caution
PMed to Jodwin, as per his suggestion, to avoid spoiling a secret level.

MAP16: End of the Line
* 100% Kills possible: Yes
* 100% Items possible: Yes
* 100% Secrets possible: Yes
* Completable from pistol start: Yes
* Fits within 10241024: Yes
* What is the music on this level?
* Obstructive detail. It's not as bad as on earlier maps, but it's still bad.
* The first wide door opens and closes at different speeds depending on which switch you flip.
* It's possible to activate the switch at the yellow key section before the wall in front of it has finished lowering.
* Also, the imps inside the room appear to be glued together. They won't move until one of them dies.
* Neither one of the doortracks in the door to the blue key has lower unpegging applied, causing the doortracks to move with the door.
* The monster teleporters can be a little slow.

MAP17: Dismalady
* 100% Kills possible: Yes
* 100% Items possible: Yes
* 100% Secrets possible: Yes
* Completable from pistol start: Yes
* Fits within 10241024: Yes
* Punny title.
* Another non-moody level with a moody track that sounds out of place. Not only that, it's an overused moody track. Find something else!
* Some obstructive detail.
* The elevator switch just after the red key door, at linedef 1357, is one map unit out of alignment. Yes, I am picky about these things.
* Snakes has already pointed out how silly the blue key pillar looks after it sinks, and has even provided a picture, so I won't have to describe it in detail. Please use linedef type 159 instead of type 23, so that the pillar changes its flat when it sinks.
Spoiler:
* Please get rid of the bronze, iron fence in front of the plasma rifle secret. Being able to walk through it makes it look like the Doomguy is a ghost.
MAP18: Graytechindustries
* 100% Kills possible: Yes
* 100% Items possible: Yes
* 100% Secrets possible: Yes
* Completable from pistol start: Yes
* Fits within 10241024: Yes (Technically, it's 1024960)
* What is the music on this level?
* The original title of this level was "Graytech Industries." Why is it all one word now? It looks a lot better as two words.
* Rather short level for this late in the WAD. ;)
* Door textures on an elevator? ;p
* What's that lone rocket doing in the exit room when there's nothing on the level to fire it with? Just wondering...
Spoiler:
* The barons at the end appear to serve no purpose other than to make you spend more time to get 100% Kills. They don't even stop you from reaching the exit switch...
* The secret door is given away on the automap by being a different color than the rest of the wall. Give linedef 440 the Secret flag to prevent this.
MAP19: Complex4k, set to Fear Factory's "Demanufacture" as played by a drummer and three squirrels on piano
* 100% Kills possible: Yes
* 100% Items possible: Yes
* 100% Secrets possible: Yes
* Completable from pistol start: Yes
* Fits within 10241024: Yes
* Nice mangling of the UAC letters to make the word "MINING." ;)
* More obstructive detail and slow monster teleports. This seems to be a recurring habit of the authors (or at least one of them.)
* The switch that opens the exit not only can be activated through the wall, but in spite of the keycard switch being used, you don't even need a key to do it. On top of that, the bars that lower in front of the exit switch don't really block you from reaching the exit switch at all. Click here for a demonstration (PrBoom+ 2.5.0.4, -complevel 9.)
* There are a lot of slime trails in the yellow key room.
Spoiler:
* The switch that opens the medikit secret is given away by the fact that it appears on the automap. Flag each of its linedefs as "Hidden" to prevent this.
* Parallel to the red key is a small room with a medikit. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to get in there before giving up. As it turns out, it seems that you're supposed to shoot the wall behind the chaingunner to open access to it. Problem is, neither the linedef (1686) nor its sector (sector 497) have a tag number assigned to them, meaning the door never works and the medikit is unreachable. Give them both a new tag number (one for both of them) to fix this. Also, was this meant to be a secret? It's not flagged as one...
MAP20: Calypso Station, set to Metallica's "Battery"
* 100% Kills possible: Yes
* 100% Items possible: Yes
* 100% Secrets possible: Yes
* Completable from pistol start: Yes
* Fits within 10241024: Yes
* If only one of the hell knights is awakened, and opens the door, the other hell knight will prevent the door from opening with his head until he awakens.
* The COMPSPAN panels in the room after the red key door are badly misaligned. In fact, misaligned panels and tiles are a common sight in this level.
* Of course, this doesn't mean the room at the bottom of the shaft is safe from misaligned textures, either.
* If there is a switch which is not damaged in any way, the implication is that the switch will do something. Ergo, it's rather odd for the switch on linedef 446 to do nothing at all, not even respond to input. Try adding some detailing to show that it's damaged.
* Using a split-door texture on a door that only opens upwards is a very bad idea.
* Painfully slow monster teleporter. Also, it's really, really silly for all of the monsters to be teleporting silently in plain view. Try using regular teleport linedefs instead.
Spoiler:
* All of the secret doors are given away by the fact that they're a different color from the rest of the wall. Please flag their linedefs as Secret to prevent this.
* Two of the secret items in sector 149 can be grabbed through the wall by accident, via backing into the wall opposite the blue key.
* There's a super-secret area accessible by an elevator, activated by a switch revealed by pressing a panel which stretches past the ceiling. Up there is a buttload of cells, and a megasphere. However, neither the elevator or the room are flagged as secret, even though 100% Items requires you to get the megasphere. Why is this?

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Last edited by The Green Herring on 10-22-09 at 07:03

Old Post 10-22-09 06:56 #
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Kyka
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Hey Jodwin. Sorry I haven't done much testing recently. I have been working on that map you sent me for this, will get back to testing soon. :)


Damn that is a tough map.



Also, TGH and other testers. Would you mind PM'ing me with your thoughts on MAP 32 (Proceed with caution) as well as Jodwin. Seeing as it is my map, I guess I should be the one making the changes. Thanks guys. :)

Last edited by Kyka on 10-22-09 at 10:14

Old Post 10-22-09 09:08 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Ill find something else for map17 music wise. I had a problem with the track as well. But Anal McDouchington insisted it was the best choice. Ill find you something good for the next version.

Old Post 10-22-09 16:26 #
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Mik57
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Yeah, I need to do some fixin on Map20. The reason why most of the textures are misaligned is probably because back then, I believed that pressing A on a wall fixed all alignment.

That split door to the lift down used to open both ways. Or at least I thought it did. Ah well, I'll fix it.

I swore that I marked the super secret as a secret. Then again, I swore that I aligned all the textures.

I'll make a chip or something in the switch that doesn't do anything, to imply damage of some sort.

The secrets, I never knew that marking the secret door as a secret changed its color to normal. I thought it would just make it purple. I'll also see what I can do about being able to grab items through the walls. (Although this might be a tough one, space is already fairly constricted.)

As for the monster teleporting, I was kind of experimenting with it. I'll try to make the teleporters faster, by making the monsters spawn in more places. More teleportation hallways, faster teleportation. Of course, I'll also implement the monster teleporting failsafe that Mek taught me.

The difficult part for me, though, is that I can't get boom to function on my comp. At all. It just rejects it, no idea why. So I have to test it with either Skulltag or Zdoom. That makes it really hard for me to test it properly. So I was wondering if I could send TGH or anyone else who is really strict with critisizm the map right after I make the fixes? That way, I can fix it faster.

Old Post 10-23-09 04:50 #
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Jodwin
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Mik57 said:
Yeah, I need to do some fixin on Map20.

No need to, as I posted on page 2 I'll be doing virtually all bug testing changes because it's simply easier and faster for everyone if I just make the fixes whenever new reports come rather than start sending the latest files to and from the original mappers.

Old Post 10-23-09 07:18 #
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TheMionicDonut
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I think you guys havea diff version of map17 then I do. I have no way to confirm this :[

Old Post 10-23-09 08:06 #
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Jodwin
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TheMionicDonut said:
I think you guys havea diff version of map17 then I do. I have no way to confirm this :[

Yeah. Dismalady hadn't had any major changes though, mostly texture alignment, fixing some of the obstructive detail and toning down the monster teleports a bit.

Old Post 10-23-09 08:48 #
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walter confalonieri
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The Green Herring said:
[B]Before I show 'em, though, here's a much-belated reply:That's the problem right there. Not only will 99.9% of the Doom community never get the reference, but even if they did, it still wouldn't be funny. "Doomchan" sounds stupid at worst and annoying at best. Anyway, "Little Doomsday" sounds better, but awkward. If I could choose a name, I'd take "A Minor Doomsday". It implies something being smaller, and (to me, at least) it sounds funny.



So, "A Minor Doomsday" is the winner.

Old Post 10-24-09 00:17 #
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The Green Herring
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Here are my reports for MAP21-25. Same parameters as usual (PrBoom+ 2.5.0.4, -complevel 9/Boom compatibility, -skill 4/Ultra-Violence difficulty.)

MAP21: Darkness Abides, set to a remix of Snake Man's BGM from Mega Man III by Jay Reichard
* 100% Kills possible: Yes
* 100% Items possible: Yes
* 100% Secrets possible: Yes
* Completable from pistol start: Yes
* Fits within 10241024: Yes
* Another level with unfitting music! The music is fast-paced and blood-pumping, while the level itself is... less so, I guess, because you're not assaulted with armies all that often. That's just what I think, though.
* If you play real close attention to the hazard-stripe barriers before they lower, you'll notice one sector lowers before the other. Maybe you could place the lowering actions on two sides of a split linedef?
* The texture on the wall that reveals the chaingunners does not move with the wall when it opens. Try an instant-open instead.
Spoiler:
* The megasphere secret is, obviously, only reachable with an arch-vile jump. If you're going to do that, maybe you should put something more inviting on top of that box than a bunch of bottles and a helmet. ;)
MAP22: Power Station, set to Rammsten's "Moskau", converted by an unknown author
* 100% Kills possible: Yes
* 100% Items possible: Yes
* 100% Secrets possible: Yes
* Completable from pistol start: No (!!!)
* Fits within 10241024: Yes
* The bugs I pointed out in my earlier report for this level when it was in the beta version of the original Claus 1024 were fixed, so I won't have to repeat them again.
* Unfortunately, somehow, a much worse bug was introduced. To complete the level, you have to raise a set of pillars that are lowered before you get there. Off-screen, there is a voodoo doll script which is supposed to allow this to happen, in sector 503. Part of the process requires for a door to be opened at sector 545 with a tag of 34. The problem? There are no linedefs with tag 34 in the entire map. As a result, the voodoo doll script is blocked from functioning properly, and you can't actually finish the level without cheating. How the hell did this happen? It was perfectly winnable in the last beta version I played...
* Apart from that, only half of the doortrack linedefs in sector 128 have Lower Unpegging applied. Linedefs 809 and 2363 don't, meaning they will move with the door when they open and close.
* Placing a wide texture on a wall which is a lot less so is rather odd.

MAP23: The Dark Dawn
* 100% Kills possible: Yes
* 100% Items possible: Yes
* 100% Secrets possible: Yes (0 secrets)
* Completable from pistol start: Yes
* Fits within 10241024: Yes
* What is the music in this level? Unlike the BGM in the author's other levels, it does fit the level's pacing.
* The gates at the start would probably look better if the middle sections had SUPP332 on them.
* More slow monster teleports. In particular, the last enemy in a wave may not show up until some time after you've killed everybody else.
* DOORTRAK looks horrible on doortracks which are that wide. Why not use SUPP332 here, too? You can use it as a doortrack, y'know.

MAP24: Oilrig II, set to "Warfare" from Command and Conquer: Tiberian Dawn, converted to MIDI by Sam Palmer
* 100% Kills possible: Yes
* 100% Items possible: Yes
* 100% Secrets possible: Yes
* Completable from pistol start: Yes
* Fits within 10241024: Yes
* The title of the level this is a "sequel" to was written as "Oil Rig" and not "Oilrig." It should be rendered as two words for the sake of consistency. Furthermore, because this level is actually the original version of the level before the one in the release of the original Claustrophobia 1024 was created, a more accurate title would be something along the lines of "Oil Rig Zero" (or "Oil Rig 0".)
* Just about everything I pointed out for the original Claustrophobia 1024 beta version of this level was fixed. The result is a very chaotic level. "You can run, but you can't hide" is an accurate summary.
* That said, you can still reach the exit without firing a shot, therefore never waking up the monsters, until after you get the key and open the door. It's a lot harder to do because you have a lot of gunfire to dodge from every angle even without the teleporting monsters, but the possibility is still here. Click here for a demonstration (PrBoom+ 2.5.0.4, -complevel 9.)
* Also, attacking the three Arachnotrons in the west can be annoying sometimes, especially if you want to preserve ammo, and the cacodemons can be propelled well out of attack range by your gunfire. I don't know if this can be solved, though. At least you can actually kill every monster this time!

MAP25: The Process, set to a song from the SNES Beavis and Butthead video game (go to 4:50), converted to MIDI by JILost
* 100% Kills possible: Yes (but see comments)
* 100% Items possible: Yes
* 100% Secrets possible: Yes
* Completable from pistol start: Yes
* Fits within 10241024: Yes
* Slow monster teleporters. In fact, during my first successful playthrough, one of the monsters managed to get stuck inside his storage sector. I think this is because the "teleport to linedef with same tag" lines are each one map unit out of alignment, thus causing the monsters to be placed closer to the wall each time they cross such a line. If thsi is corrected, I'm sure this won't happen again.
* There are slime trails around the blue key.
* Why does the exit-bar switch say "Access" when you encounter it, and "Locked" after you trigger it? It makes more sense for it to be the other way around (i.e. EWAL001A instead of EWAL002B.)
Spoiler:
* Reaching the blue armor requires to jump onto a tiny ledge from a tunnel opening, and then precariously navigate it. However, only small portions of the tunnel opening can be climbed on. You can use a height transfer to make the rest of it act like a floor so you don't walk or fall through the midtextures. For your convenience, Jodwin, I'll send you an edited version of the level with this special effect implemented (and the above-mentioned teleporting error likely fixed.)

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Old Post 10-24-09 03:02 #
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StupidBunny
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@Green Herring: I'm glad you liked the detail work. A little surprised, but glad nonetheless. (Fun fact: at the time I made this, I didn't know how to properly use linedef unpegging in building decorations and stuff. I guess I hid that fact pretty well...) I'll fix the slow teleports when I get a chance to. What do you recommend as the best way to ensure the monsters teleport quickly? I've been trying to figure that out...

@Snakes: When you refer to the gate at the beginning, you mean the one right behind the player, right? And also, which blood pit teleport do you mean? If I remember right, there are two blood pits with teleport traps (and they could both be kind of "meh"... :P )

Last edited by StupidBunny on 10-26-09 at 07:01

Old Post 10-24-09 05:29 #
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hawkwind
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@TGH

Map 22 can still be exited without cheating despite that tag 34 bug. Try playing it without monsters or use and editor and work back from the exit. I just tested this now and it works fine.

Hint ... line 3222.

Last edited by hawkwind on 10-24-09 at 07:36

Old Post 10-24-09 06:53 #
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The Green Herring
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Thanks, hawkwind. I checked again, and now I realize what happened: If you shoot the gunfire switch before the pillars finish lowering, the level becomes unwinnable, but if you do it afterward, it doesn't. I now realize the voodoo doll script I was talking about was meant to be a failsafe in case you shoot the switch at the wrong time. Except, of course, the failsafe failed.

All the more reason to fix the bug, of course. You really should not be able to block your chances of victory without realizing it...

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Last edited by The Green Herring on 10-24-09 at 07:23

Old Post 10-24-09 07:16 #
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alterworldruler
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@TheGreenHerring: Map23's music is "House #3" from "A Nightmare on Elm Street" for NES. And it was converted to MIDI from NSF by "The Jade Emperor" on VGMusic.

Also guys regarding bugs in dismalady and other maps of mine. please fix them themselves since I don't have access to the maps right now :) and you guys will do better job at it anyway.

Old Post 10-24-09 07:56 #
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Kyka
Loser


Posts: 1861
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Ok. Back to work

MAP 11 (Doomchan by Daimon.)
------

ARCHITECTURE:
-sky horizon visible out of windows at sectors 268, 271, 26.
-the linedefs on the sides of the windows at sectors 31, 32 are misaligned.
-More misalignments at linedefs 204, 203, 1821, 1824, 1819, 1823, (all one window)
-The ceiling on sector 200 looked poo.
-linedefs 2164, 2166 misaligned.
-Some of the linedefs around sector 25 have the "lower unpegged" flag which needs to be removed.
-Linedef 3052 could be aligned better. (the bars aren't centered)


GAMEPLAY:
-HUGE FAULT. This level is breakable. The shoot switch at linedef 2018 raises sector 373. You have to shoot the switch 3 times to raise these pillars enough to get to the switch behind it. BUT NO. If you shoot the switch only twice, you can still get into sector 341 which goes up a stair, (after hitting the switch at linedef 3069), and you are unable to get out again. The pillars need to be lowered further into the ground so as you have to shoot the switch 3 times before accessing the switch behind it. The stair at sector 341 could be lowered, but this would remove the need to shoot the switch the third time.
-The stairs in the sludge do not actually hurt you, even though you are standing on them. I guess this is because the centre of the player is standing above ground level, as some of the players bound box is sitting on a higher stair. Kinda irrelevant coz, as TGH said, there should be a rad suit. Or (radical idea) you could simply make the green sludge not do damage. Wouldn't hurt. (Geddit?? Wouldn't hurt!!1!. *Sigh* I am tired.)
-Actually there is a RAD suit, I have just discovered, but it is tagged not to appear on hard?? I would tag it, move it into the room with the green waterfall. And then make linedef 1635 impassable, coz the alcove where the rad suit is now is too easy to get stuck in.

-Linedefs 1568, 2559 should be impassable.
-Sector 192 should have a glowing effect on it, to make that shoot switch (linedef 1111) more noticeable.
-obstructive details in sector 136 (already mentioned by TGH, but worth mentioning again.)
-Sector 286 is particularly obstructive. Also door at sector 137 should stay open once opened. Would make dodging hell knights and cacodemons much easier. This area was particularly frustrating.
-Baron at sector 34 could easily be a hell knight.
-The Super shotty in the red area at sector 52 is very easy to miss. Somewhere more prominent would be better.
-Linedef 189, 199 need to be impassable.
-TGH has already mentioned this, but if you must have skellies teleporting in at sector 17, probably one is enough. The second is either unnecessary or frustrating.
-The main 'hub' area. I think the bars should close once you have completed an area so as you don't run all around through areas you have already been. A minor thing, as the floors are different colors, but I will mention it anyway. Probably too fiddly and leaves the potential for breaking the map more easily tho, so probably not worth doing. Just a thought.

Last edited by Kyka on 10-24-09 at 10:44

Old Post 10-24-09 10:21 #
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Kyka
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Posts: 1861
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MAP 12 (Stagnant Depot by KingKill33)
--------

ARCHITECTURE:
-Both linedefs 112 and 772 have the wire mesh extending into the floor and ceiling. Also linedefs 3343, 3352. Also linedefs 1611, 1723, 1721. 1718, 1716, 1714. Also 8036, 8033, 8042, 8076.

-All the 'front' lines around sectors 332, 333, 631, 632 MUST be made impassable. Otherwise it is possible to climb outside the level
-The lines on the outside of sector 566 could be impassable. (picky)
-Sector 369 needs ceiling to be raised by 8 units so that the red key bars are not cut off halfway up.
-Sector 422 needs to have its floor lowered by 16 units. It is sticking up out of the ground. and looks silly.
-Linedefs 3245, 6546, 7251, 7255 (all one window) need to be made impassable.
-Ceiling of sectors 1482, 1483 needs to be a dark brown flat. The gray texture looks poo as it is. Also sectors 1460, 1482 need to have a brown flat on their floor.

GAMEPLAY:
Man I love KingKill's architecture. Ok, Ok, it does leave itself open to being obstructive, It didn't bother me, though maybe I am biased because I know the level inside out. I mean I have playtested this one since it's original inception like a year ago. I really like it as is mostly, but I can see how people won't like it so much.
-The only place i really found the obstructiveness a problem was from the skellie that teleported into sector 348 (tag 39). This should be changed to something less brutal imo.
-As already mentioned numerous times, some of the switches are too narrow and easily missed. I won't labor the point.
-The demons that teleport into sector 19 (after picking up the yellow key) cant get to you in the narrow area where the yellow key is. Also, you could put a medikit as well as the stimpack that is already in there in the yellow key area. Not a lot of health through this section.
-A few less imps teleporting around sector 1504 perhaps? Again, doesn't bother me but they are a little useless up there.

Ok, that is all the playtesting for me today. Only got through two levels. And I've spent hours already. Was hoping to get through a few more levels than this. Oh well. Tomorrow then. It's Saturday night and I'm going out.

Old Post 10-24-09 12:10 #
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Snakes
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StupidBunny said:
@Snakes: When you refer to the gate at the beginning, you mean the one right behind the player, right? And also, which blood pit teleport do you mean? If I remember right, there are two blood pits with teleport traps (and they could both be kind of "meh"... :P )


By 'gate' I mean the small pillars at the bottom of the lift (Sector 58). Trying to get them to lower took me more than one try every go I had on this map. And the blood pit I believe is sector 150, where the backpack is. What I meant by 'meh' was that it was really slow, and easy to stand there and pick off the monsters one at a time. There was also another occasion where I went and got the yellow key thinking I got them all, but came back and two chaingunners chewed me up.

Neither of these are very significant, and I do think this is one of the strongest maps of the bunch. Perhaps you could add linedefs between the beams of the gate that perform linedef action 24858 as well, which would make lowering the the bars really easy. As for the blood pit, well... I don't know how to alter it as the space is so cramped and nearly every sector is tagged. I think maybe if you have half of them go to sector 146 it'll work more efficiently.

Old Post 10-24-09 18:45 #
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Jodwin
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The Green Herring said:
Thanks, hawkwind. I checked again, and now I realize what happened: If you shoot the gunfire switch before the pillars finish lowering, the level becomes unwinnable, but if you do it afterward, it doesn't. I now realize the voodoo doll script I was talking about was meant to be a failsafe in case you shoot the switch at the wrong time. Except, of course, the failsafe failed.

All the more reason to fix the bug, of course. You really should not be able to block your chances of victory without realizing it...


Looking at the map, I think line 3222 wasn't supposed to raise the pillars in the end: It was one of the last minute changes for Claus 1 before the maps got switched that the line 3637 switch was added, and first all it did was teleport an arch-vile. Also, it seems a little weird that the pillars first lower when you enter that platform, but you can raise them right away with the shootable switch. So the way I see it, the pillars are supposed to lower to give a little more space for the final fights, and then you're supposed to raise them with the line 3637 switch.

Old Post 10-24-09 23:06 #
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