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The Green Herring
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Jodwin said:
Looking at the map, I think line 3222 wasn't supposed to raise the pillars in the end: It was one of the last minute changes for Claus 1 before the maps got switched that the line 3637 switch was added, and first all it did was teleport an arch-vile. Also, it seems a little weird that the pillars first lower when you enter that platform, but you can raise them right away with the shootable switch. So the way I see it, the pillars are supposed to lower to give a little more space for the final fights, and then you're supposed to raise them with the line 3637 switch.
That does make a lot more sense, yeah.

spoiler - highlight to read:

By the way, Jodwin, did you get the edited MAP25 I sent you via PM? I implemented the height transfer effect I described in my beta report so you wouldn't have to. Check it out as soon as you can.

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Old Post 10-24-09 23:09 #
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Jodwin
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The Green Herring said:
spoiler


spoiler - highlight to read:

Yeah, I got it, I've been a bit busy today but I'll check it tomor...err, later today. It's already 1:20 am; that'll be enough for the day.

Old Post 10-24-09 23:20 #
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Jodwin
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The Green Herring said:
spoiler

(double post!)

spoiler - highlight to read:

It seems the biggest issue with that secret was the impassable tag on lines 4446 and 6521, but with that edit you did it's a little easier to get to the secret than with just removing the (pointless) impassable tags, so I'll use that trick. :)

Old Post 10-25-09 10:39 #
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Kyka
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Posts: 1861
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MAP13 (The Blood Factory by Stupid Bunny)

ARCHITECTURE:
-Linedefs 3533, 3369, 1440, 3107, 3109, 3110 all need to be impassable.
-linedefs 312 and 323 could be aligned so the red lights line up much better.
-The Blue key pillars (sector 374) could be a different texture (such as LITGTHB1 looked pretty good, offset obviously). Seeing as it is the only texture on the entire level with any blue, or gray on it, it really stands out.
-linedefs 1449, 1450 could have something other than doortrak on their back upper texture. (picky)
-I agree with Snakes, the pillars at sector 58 are a little redundant. They are fine, they just don't really serve much purpose.

GAMEPLAY:
-The only real thing for me was going up and down the lift at sector 60. Going up the lift, you are met with chaingunners and imps, then on the way back down after getting the red key, chaingunners, imps, demons. It is easy to get pretty hammered on that lift. Probably you could remove a monster or two from that area.
-As mentioned, the blood teleport pit is a little slow. Monsters just come in one at a time, in a nice queue.

Last edited by Kyka on 10-26-09 at 09:39

Old Post 10-26-09 09:34 #
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gggmork
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Here's what I have so far on 30 just to show some progress (obviously taking longer than the 3 days I thought it would take to finish).

http://www.sendspace.com/file/j0vxck
(needs the texture pack)

Not sure if people would like this gameplay, but its hard to match any gameplay to the weird floor changes (larger enemies often get stuck on floors for example). Nothing finished past cybers pretty much and the gameplay generally isn't hammered into shape I guess, if it even has potential. Needs more shell ammo and stuff.
fixed zdoom slowdown (because original sky sector was too big).
Might have to make viles warp 1.5 or 2 times slower, not sure. Only ultraviolence so far.
Some randomly pasted test textures; ignore (plan might be to make the flats change gradually each time the stairs rise/lower).

Hopefully its obvious but:

spoiler - highlight to read:

use vile blasts to reach switches (viles might currently warp too frequently, not sure though. There's basically infinite life/armor (basically infinite outside warping viles too). And the idea is all the outside viles would be crushed after the cybers some time (thus getting max kills).

Last edited by gggmork on 10-27-09 at 00:47

Old Post 10-27-09 00:23 #
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Jodwin
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gggmork said:
Here's what I have so far on 30 just to show some progress (obviously taking longer than the 3 days I thought it would take to finish).

That was pretty funky (for the lack of a better word) and cool. Very hard; I'm a bit skeptical on the cybies though. I'd maybe consider adding some health pedestals more, maybe with limited (teleporting?) stimpacks rather than medikits. It's also a bit annoying when you're running to grab health and suddenly the floor stars rising, making the health unavailable. Maybe the pillars could be raised a little bit higher, too?

And yeah, the vile teleports could be somewhat slower.

But as far as I'm concerned, this really could be a worthy map30. :)

Old Post 10-27-09 13:30 #
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Kyka
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MAP 14 (Twilight of the Demons by Alterworldruler)
------

ARCHITECTURE:
-Linedef 152 needs LITE5 texture on its frontside upper.
-linedef 26 needs to be offset 4 units to the right to centre it, so it is the same as linedef 28
-linedef 1279 is badly misaligned.
-Sectors 84, 85, 88, 89, 90, 91 need to have their floors raise by 8 units so that the textures on their lower sides are not sticking into the ground.
-linedef 311 needs something other than GRAY9 as a texture. Looks poo as it is.
-As TGH mentioned, the top of the red key crate looks silly when it is lowered into the ground and is still gray.
-linedef 1195 needs to be x offset by 64 units. The crate is presently cut off in its middle.
-linedef 255 needs its frontside offset one unit to the right. In fact, after looking at it, virtually all of the linedefs that use the MIDRAILA texture need offsetting. Most, if not all of them the supports are cut off halfway, and they look different on one side than the other. Untidy all round. (1225, 2120, 1682, 255, 1218. Also linedefs 1549, 1556, 1563 should be split into two and the side pillars neatened so they aren't cut off.)
-The hell section around sector 237 doesn't suit the level at all.
-linedefs 1488, 1489, 1492, 1496 are really misaligned relative to the bricks around them.
-All of the linedefs on the inside of sector 270 could be aligned so that the tiles line up with the tiles on the floor of sector 270 (picky, but it would look way better.)
-the midtex on linedef 2117 extends infinitely into the floor.
-linedef 1659 is misaligned

GAMEPLAY:

spoiler - highlight to read:


It is perfectly possible to get the soulsphere without finding the shoot switch to lower the crates it is sitting on. I would raise those crates either 64 or 128 units. That way, the soulsphere is still visible, but cannot be reached by a well angled sprint off the upper bridge.



-linedefs 292, 293 and 47 (the linedefs that lower the bridge back to ground level) should be much closer to the bridge itself. Otherwise it is too easy to jump off the bridge and not have the bridge lower and get stuck on invisible walls. It doesn't break the level, but it does seem kinda wrong.
-linedef 1658 closes the bars over the exit door, waits 30 seconds, then opens those bars again. This is fine, but the average doomer is not going to think to himself: "Those bars are closed. I am sure they will just open by themselves real soon." No, he will think "Hmmm, there must be a switch to open those bars." So off he goes, looking all over the level for a switch to open those bars. Little does he know that this switch doesn't actually exist. Eventually the player will return to the exit doors, by now thoroughly annoyed, to find the bars have miraculously opened.**

**This reconstruction is based on actual events. ;)

Thinking about it, you could easily remove the bars, and teleport a baron into the exit room to prevent the player bypassing the final fight with the arch and the monsters in that little room before the exit. Or, probably better, you could remove the window at sectors 345, 346 so that the two hell knights in the exit cannot be killed before entering the exit room itself. Either of these would remove the need for those bars. Or put a switch somewhere, perhaps on linedef 1772, that opens when the arch and the monsters teleport in, allowing the bars to be opened that way. Just a few thoughts. But don't leave it as it is.

In spite of these criticisms, I liked this level a lot. For what that is worth anyway. I also really liked the music on this level too. (TGH didn't think the music suited this level and he probably has a good point, but I actually don't mind it.)

Last edited by Kyka on 10-27-09 at 17:58

Old Post 10-27-09 17:39 #
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Kyka
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MAP 15 (Spirited away by Jodwin)

ARCHITECTURE:
-In terms of look and feel, this is one of my favorite levels so far. Spooky and moody and excellent design.
- Seeing as the brick textures used are a prick to align, i will try to be not too picky. Generally it was pretty good.
-linedefs 343, 2049, 2055, 2056, 2085, 2086 (all these linedefs are together) need aligning.
-linedefs 1193, 1209, 1216, 449, 1199, 447, 446, 444, 1236. (All in the central room. These two areas were probably the only ones that really should be done. The rest are picky. (though it is probably all a bit picky, but this stuff really stands out to me.)
-linedefs 409, 414 could use aligning.
-a few of the linedefs around the exit doors were repeating, so a quick align there.
-lots of the little inset linedefs could use offsetting, (but this is uber picky.)
-otherwise this level is great. One of the strongest in the mapset imo.

GAMEPLAY:
-I managed to finish the level with only 41% kills. Was this intentional to allow so many monsters to be bypassed?
-The start. Three archviles? I had to fist the last one to death as I had totally run out of ammo. Without Bezerk. And I had to pistol the one before it. Then I had to fisticuff another archvile. And then fisticuff 3 demons. The rest of the level the gameplay was really strong, and I can't fault it, but this start will cause a lot of players to bypass this level. Which is a shame, coz once you get past that start, the rest is really good. Very limited monster selection works really well. Also, these same three starting archviles also appear on HMP, which is just crazy. Maybe you could get away with this on UV (i would prefer no more than 2 archs on UV) but certainly not HMP. No more than one on HMP should be there, not 2 or 3.)
-Upon further checking, these SAME THREE ARCHVILES appear on EVERY POSSIBLE DIFFICULTY SETTING. This is a little unfair yeah?

-Other than the start being frustrating, seriously, I loved this level. Good work.

Last edited by Kyka on 10-28-09 at 08:26

Old Post 10-28-09 08:20 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Kyka said:
Stuff about arch-viles

Try approaching it another way (sneak).

Old Post 10-28-09 08:41 #
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Jodwin
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Kyka said:
-I managed to finish the level with only 41% kills. Was this intentional to allow so many monsters to be bypassed?


spoiler - highlight to read:

It's a map15. Secret exit, anyone?


Kyka said:
-The start. Three archviles? I had to fist the last one to death as I had totally run out of ammo.


spoiler - highlight to read:

If you managed to kill them all, it wasn't hard enough. I might have to add a few archies more. :P

(yes, you aren't supposed to fight them at the start (and I love death traps))

Old Post 10-28-09 09:08 #
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Kyka
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I did figure I was missing something, there had to be another way to do the start, but I actually couldn't find it. And I am supposed to be a playtester. :( I am gonna go back and have another play just to have a look. My main concern I guess is that I don't want people to ragequit and miss out on what really is a great level. I killed all the archs with shotty, then pistol, then fists, then harsh language. *sigh*, and I am probably not the only one who will tackle it like this.

Thanks AB and Jodwin for the heads-up.

Anyway, on with the playtesting. (such as it is)

MAP 16 (End of the Line by Kingkill33)
--------

-Tough, in your face combat in confined spaces. Neato!!! Levels like this are what 1024 should be. One of my favorites.

ARCHITECTURE:

-linedefs 1920 and 1949 have their sectors on the wrong sides.
-linedef 1844 could use a little alignment.
-linedefs 929 and 930 extend infinitely into the ceiling. (picky)
-linedefs 1841 and 1847 could be realigned to follow the checkerboard pattern of texture JR_49 (uber uber picky)


GAMEPLAY:
-linedef 1541 should be impassable.
-As already mentioned, the imps in sector 85 are stuck until one of them is killed.
-the switch at sector 98 could be a little more noticeable.
-linedefs 654 and 586 should have their actions moved to 'behind' linedef 283, if the intention is to trap the player in that little room (sector 85) otherwise the player can simply walk in, trigger the monsters, walk out, kill them all and then pick up the blue key at his leisure. It is fine like this, but could be better.
-the switch at sector 96 is a bit redundant, as well as making the level more of a switch hunt than necessary. The switch at sector 250 could open sector 88 directly. One less switch probably wouldn't hurt too much. Also linedefs 1683, 1686, 1687, 1690 could be moved apart 16 units to make the opening the door a little more visible from sector 250. (When you look at it, it will make sense.)

Last edited by Kyka on 10-28-09 at 09:56

Old Post 10-28-09 09:35 #
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alterworldruler
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as I said, it's up to you guys to fix maps of mine. As A. I don't have access to the current maps B. I'm very busy IRL C. doing Xenus 3.

Old Post 10-29-09 08:49 #
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Kyka
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MAP14 (Twilight of the demons by Alterworldruler.)
--------
-kinda bad timing given the above post. o_0
Couple of extra things I noticed on another playthrough.
-linedef 675 should be split into two so that the sides of the MIDRAILA texture are not cut off.
-sectors 226, 250, 521,525, 253, 254 need to have the action changed so that the flat changes when it lowers into the ground.
-linedefs 1838 and 160 are misaligned.
-linedefs 56, 61, chould be 16 map units in length instead of 18, then realigned.

MAP 17 (Dismalady by Alterworldruler and The Mionic Donut)
--------

ARCHITECTURE:
-linedefs 91, 93 could be aligned neater.
-sectors 22, 23, 26, 27, 30, 31 need to have their ceiling brightness set to 128 (sectors tagged to a line with action 261)
-linedefs 169, 171 are misaligned
-linedef 354 needs aligning to match linedefs 352 and 384 (once the floor at sector 80 is lowered)
-sector 243, 244 really need a dark brown ceiling texture. FLAT20 looks poo given the dark brown door texture either side.
-linedef 1279 needs it back Y offset set to 2
-The blue health bottle on the RH side of sector 4 clips into the wall and should be moved.


GAMEPLAY:
-The two chaingunners at sector 93 are in a bad position. If you teleport to sector 95, you can be sniped by these guys, and they are really high up. Otherwise if you walk into sector 73, they are almost too low to see, and can kill you very easily from there. Either raise that platform or lower it. These chaingunners are frustrating on many levels. The chaingunners at sector 166 weren't much better.
-It isn't very obvious that linedef 1177 was a yellow key door. (At least not to me.)
-The lift at sector 259 is a really bad fight. Having to fight three barons (on UV) from a tiny little lift with no room to move or dodge is terrible. Or at best a frustrating exercise in going up and down a lift, firing one or two SSG shots at a time. Tedious and frustrating. Better to teleport some monsters in once you are actually in the room, giving you room to move/dodge. As it is it is just crap.
-In spite of the criticisms, this level was one of my favorites. Great architecture and layout, dark and moody and the music was very good too.

Last edited by Kyka on 10-30-09 at 06:04

Old Post 10-30-09 04:55 #
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alterworldruler
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Great job Kyka. Now someone should fix it :P Not me, because of reasons I mentioned earlier. Oh and feel free to change the music in my maps if you want so. MionicDonut, please next time refrain from calling me 'Anal McDouchington' (like last time in this thread) because I would change the music if the leader of the project asked me. We aren't supposed to argue, I just stayed with that music because I wanted and if leader of this project asked me to change it, I would have changed but now since my maps are under this team's control, they're free to do whatever they want with my maps and music choices because i'm 100% sure they will do good.

Old Post 10-30-09 11:45 #
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Kyka
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alterworldruler said:
Great job Kyka.


Thanks dude.



Now someone should fix it :P Not me, because of reasons I mentioned earlier.



Jodwin has already said he will make all the changes, so it is cool. :)


Oh and feel free to change the music in my maps if you want so. MionicDonut, please next time refrain from calling me 'Anal McDouchington' (like last time in this thread)


I assumed he was talking about Deaths Destiny. Either way, whether he was talking about you or Mr Destiny, it was a pretty shitty thing to say.


because I would change the music if the leader of the project asked me. We aren't supposed to argue, I just stayed with that music because I wanted and if leader of this project asked me to change it, I would have changed but now since my maps are under this team's control, they're free to do whatever they want with my maps and music choices because i'm 100% sure they will do good.


Yeah I agree this will be a quality mapset when it is done. Good luck with all the RL stuff dude. Anyway, on with the playtesting...

MAP 18 (GraytechIndustries by Impboy)
--------

This may be just ZDoom, but the SUPPORT2 patches do not line up very well.

ARCHITECTURE:
linedefs 55, 62, 67, 72 all need some aligning to put the row of bolts in the centre of the linedef.
-Sectors 9 should have a brown ceiling rather than FLAT20, which looks poo with brown door textures. As should sectors 83, 68, 108, 119, 68. (bit picky, but meh. Will point it out for consideration)
-All of the sectors around the central lights (sectors 30, 32, 33 etc etc. Also sectors 86, 88, 89.) should have their ceiling brightness set to 128. Also these lights are blended in really well, but the two sky sectors either side (sector 130, 132) are not blended in at all and the lighting looks all wrong. Just look at the floor. The mix of blended and non blended lighting looks bizarre.
-The same with the lighting at sector 11. Should be blended in rather than being a single blob of too bright lighting.
-Sector 121 looks way better with a floor height of 16 and a ceiling height of 48. Linedefs 822, 823, 826 will obviously need some realigning.
-The support2 texture on linedefs 559, 563, 566, 571 need realigning. (Though this may ber a ZDoom patch issue rather than an alignment issue)



GAMEPLAY:
A little more ammo at the start, especially if you want to snipe the hell knights/baron at sector 57.
-The 2 hell knights/1 baron at sector 57 are unable to shoot over the ledge at sector 58/59 The level is much improved by making sectors 58, 59, 117, 118 all have a floor height of 24 (the midtex on linedef 483 will obviously need a little realigning on both its sides) I tried this and it makes the level much better imo.
-The archviles at sector 87 and 134 It is weird them just appearing through an instant rise floor. Probably should teleport in, or have the floor rise slightly slower through a 'floor rise' generalised linedef (probably easier)
-As TGH mentioned, level is probably a touch short, and i agree. The difficulty is just about right, just the length could be longer.

Last edited by Kyka on 10-31-09 at 15:52

Old Post 10-31-09 12:08 #
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gggmork
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Regarding the '1024 rule':

say I have a big 1024 elevated platform of sorts. Normally you could drop/fall off the side, however there's block lines all around it so you can't. These block lines have snaggy behavior for me, so what I'd want to do maybe is move the block line back a tiny bit (maybe one long block line will snag less than lots of little ones)..
well that would technically make the area greater than 1024 because now you could hang off the side a tad even though there's not enough room to completely fall off. The only ground level that can be stood on is in the 1024 area. Its just that you could hang off the cliff slightly further than 1024.
I think this happened in some previous maps, like technically you could run off the side but that would trigger a player crusher or something but that trigger was slightly beyond 1024 in some cases.
So should I do that (but not even sure if it'd solve the snag issue)?

Old Post 11-02-09 04:20 #
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Jodwin
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gggmork said:
So should I do that (but not even sure if it'd solve the snag issue)?

Well, whenever I've noticed the player being able to get outside the 1024 area I've been pretty anal trying to fix it, but if it's possible to make the map more playable by putting the impassable line one or two units away from the platform I guess that would be okay in this case.


spoiler - highlight to read:

(then again, my Thanatophobia (map30) was broken right away with AV jumps in the 1024Clau demo thread, so who am I to talk? :P ...I did get a good laugh out of that particular speed demo, though.)

Old Post 11-02-09 05:40 #
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gggmork
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There, finished map 30 I think (all skills implemented. Put player 1/2/3/4 starts. Didn't put a deathmatch start since 1024clau maps apparently didn't):

http://www.speedyshare.com/482275779.html

The blockline helped remove snagging a lot (I put it parallel with the outer sector debris stuff because I think those might bleed in and cause the snagging or something. I think 1024clau map 33 (or 34?) had lines outside the 1024 perimeter too).
I beat it on UV in prboomplus; hard but pretty fun imo, though now I'm sick of playtesting (last level should be hard probably anyway).
Since there's 'infinite' life I left health as is so its not ALWAYS accessible. 2 rockets warp uncentered for some perplexing reason (the bfg + plasma does warp centered..). Also the sky has a couple small verticle lines. But I regard the rockets/sky as possibly unfixable quirks and don't really mind.


also I guess let me know if I still have to do that weird hack to abstraction (assuming it would work)

Last edited by gggmork on 11-02-09 at 11:11

Old Post 11-02-09 10:35 #
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Jodwin
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gggmork said:
also I guess let me know if I still have to do that weird hack to abstraction (assuming it would work)

Yeah, apparently the music thing I mentioned in the PMs didn't work, so Abstraction would probably be 34. I guess either one of us could do the hack you mentioned, but if you want to (or have already done it), go ahead.

edit: What should this new map be called?

edit 2: I quickly tried the final version, and have to say, it's probably the only map that lags for me in prboom+. Would it be possible to remove some of the lines in the main area or to do something else to decrease the slowdowns?

Last edited by Jodwin on 11-02-09 at 12:29

Old Post 11-02-09 12:09 #
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gggmork
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Here's abstraction with the 'walk to secret level' exit 'hack':
http://www.speedyshare.com/580804168.html
Tested to work in prboomplus and zdoom.
NOTE: I tested without 30 telefrag behavior of course, but then left the map on 30. So it won't work until the map is changed to 33/34/whatever. (now the player dies right at the start because the column telefrags the icon.. but that shouldn't happen when the map isn't 30).

About lag in the other one.. it actually ran pretty much 100% normal speed, for me at least, in both zdoom and prboomplus (I only have an optiplex sx270 which is probably pretty old; maybe you're on a really old computer or its some other compatibility thing?). Dunno what a name would be yet, or music (I guess people pretty much take anything they want from the vgmusic site?)


EDIT: maybe its the scrolling textures on those big columns? Maybe your computer can't handle that particular type of thing; weird because mine does. I was testing through doombuilder if that matters. (file/test map/ then used prboom-plus 2.5.0.3 or zdoom 2.3.1). With the texture pack imported into it.

Last edited by gggmork on 11-02-09 at 13:42

Old Post 11-02-09 13:29 #
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Jodwin
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Funny thing, since I have a E7300 Core 2 Duo (2.67ghz) cpu with 2gb ram and GF 8600 GT, which isn't very old. The lag is very noticeable especially if I run from one corner to the other (the lag getting smaller towards the other corner, when less lines are in view).

Old Post 11-02-09 14:40 #
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Kyka
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gggmork's new level 30.


spoiler - highlight to read:


(tested with latest version of ZDoom (whatever that is. 2.3.1 I think)

It is a weird combination of unspeakable brilliance and terrible frustration.

The sheer amount of linedefs in a small area as well as possibly the scrolling effects meant that my comp was chugging, and this with the continual sliding around on stairs, making it very difficult to dodge, or even stay behind cover to avoid the continual archvile attacks meant that the first ten minutes was one of continual "grrrrrrrrr". But after that, I simply got on with the business of overcoming a brutally challenging level. And so after my initial frustration, I loved every framerate-destroying moment of it.

The concept is just so unique and once I got used to sliding around like I was on an ice skating rink, it challenged my doom playing abilities to the limit, which meant at the end it was an actual achievement that I was pleased to get through. I really had to come up with new strategies to complete this level.

The best strategy I found was reducing an archviles health to near zero, letting it blast me up onto one of those platforms, hitting the switch, then killing it straight away, so I didn't have to fight it and the hordes of teleporting monsters at the same time. This level is all about crowd control and not letting things get out of hand. Using infighting helps. Killing archviles quickly is essential.

Man I thoroughly recommend this as a level 30. Possibly you might want to consider a slightly modified version with less chugging and less ice skating, but if not, it gets my vote. For what that is worth anyway.

gggmork, you brilliant bastard. <^^>

Last edited by Kyka on 11-02-09 at 15:27

Old Post 11-02-09 15:12 #
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Jodwin
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I did some quick optimization, and even this butchered version lags a bit for me (includes random testing music). I'm afraid it should be butchered further so that it's as playable as possible for as many people as possible. Few thoughts that could help: Further simplifying the platforms, adding more pillars (btw, the closed pillars should always be removed as that prevents the game from drawing lines that are behind them, which wouldn't be seen anyway), maybe changing the "teleport to line with same tag" triggers to work with teleport things would help too (not sure though).

Someone better versed in Doom engine would know better, but merging sectors might also detriment run-time efficiency. I'm not certain though, so don't take my word for it.

Old Post 11-02-09 20:09 #
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gggmork
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Hmm... I don't get it. I mean, is the sx270 some sort of magic doom playing computer with magic graphics drivers or something? Do I have some sort of extremely cryptic windows setting that harnesses all computational power toward games? I don't see what possible logical reason could cause it to run in, as far as I can detect, absolutely normal framerate for me (in both prboomplus 2.5.0.3-win32 and zdoom 2.3.1) yet have slow framerate for others..

First of all, I don't even know if the boom scripting stuff is even working the same for others; sky should start as swirly brownish/white. Then it flashes red/brown faster and faster until a vile warps (then back to brown, repeat). Also the stairs should alternate moving up/down for each side. And there should be 2 giant columns with that same brown/white 'sky' pasted on its walls, each verticle chunk scrolling horizontally in a particular speed.

Well I did have weird massive slowdown in zdoom at ONE point, and found out that was caused by the 'main sky room' being too large (for some reason). Reducing the main outer 'room' to current size completely fixed that for me though.

Given that it plays normal speed for me already, I have no way to find out what edit would make it play normal speed for anyone else.. I guess you could try these:
(start with map as is and revert to original/don't save if anything below doesn't fix frame rate I guess):

1)
removing all scroll lines:
Change linedef #s 11735 & 11734 to: linedef action 0
Then highlight both entire round column lines, and make linedef action 0 for all.

Or maybe the sky can't be used on a wall like that; change all lines for both circular columns to any normal non-sky texture.
Or completely delete all column lines.
Frame rate fixed?

2)
Pull outer square skybox lines 128 units inward (linedef 3, 10193, 10982 to the right 128 units.. same for all 4 sides). If that doesn't work maybe twice that distance inward (but you'd have to move the columns too or they'd be in the way).

If that didn't work maybe the sky is too tall or something.
So change:
sector 0 to (ceiling = 768, floor = -768)
sector 1525 to (ceiling = -768, floor = -768)
sector 1720 to (ceiling = -768, floor = -768)
sector 1725 to (ceiling = keep same, floor = -767)
Frame rate fixed?

3)
Maybe the sky is screwing it up:
Delete sector 1526.
Then (for doombuilder 1 at least) edit/find&replace. Replace all f_sky1's with any non-sky flat like ceil3_2 or something.
Frame rate fixed?

4)
I was testing in doombuilder 1. Maybe you're testing in db2 which might somehow cause low frame rate for some reason?
Frame rate fixed?

5)
Delete all things except the player start.
Frame rate fixed?

6)
Uh.. play with a magic optiplex sx270?

This particular map does play a lot better in prboomplus than zdoom. That's pretty much inevitable because of zdoom's slippier behavior on stairs and its taller vile jumps (with probably less forward momentum too). Prboomplus is less slippery.




EDIT: didn't try jodwin's butchered version above yet

Last edited by gggmork on 11-02-09 at 20:52

Old Post 11-02-09 20:43 #
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Jodwin
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The slowdowns are certainly caused by the large amount of lines; there are very few maps that let you have as many lines in plain sight at the same time, and that causes slowdowns. I further butchered the map and made about half of the 64x64 platforms consist of just one sector and that works fine (for me). So probably hugely simplifying the platforms while trying to make them look good would be the best solution.

Just a question though, are you using uncapped or capped framerate? I'm using uncapped, and from what I can tell the slowdowns wouldn't make it go less than 35 fps for me (which is capped limit), so if you're using capped that might be the reason why you aren't noticing anything. I also use 1280x960 resolution, so if you're using 640x480 or something like that that would help too (but unfortunately we can't really rely on everyone playing the map on lower settings on a community wad like this, so the map "has to be" optimized regardless...it would be different if it was a single map release).

Old Post 11-02-09 20:54 #
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TheMionicDonut
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In ZDoom, the Icon of Sin instantly died and I won the game. Just letting you know.

Old Post 11-02-09 21:25 #
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gggmork
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TheMionicDonut said:
In ZDoom, the Icon of Sin instantly died and I won the game. Just letting you know.


Thanks, but yeah, that's just because it has map30 telefrag behavior right now (when it changes to a non-30 map, it should work normally without that beginning telefrag).



Jodwin said:
The slowdowns are certainly caused by the large amount of lines


That's what I'd normally think, but not necessarily maybe. Because for me the sky box, instead of line count, caused zdoom slowdown previously, just from being too large (don't ask me why). So maybe one of those numbered things mentioned above might work instead of line count.

But I thought of something that might work to reduce lots of lines but keep the map pretty much 100% the same: merging the 'plus signs' with their adjacent sectors, then creating a new flat (that is a combination of both flats as they look currently) to use instead. Not sure if that'd work or screw up scripting and stuff yet (and still didn't try that butchered version linked above yet).
The plus signs originally were meant to change flat textures each time the stairs lowered/raised. It worked but didn't look that great so might not need the plus signs anymore.
Also I can remove scrolling lines on the backs of the circular columns that nobody will ever see anyway.



EDIT:
I normally play in prboomplus with 'uncapped framerate: yes'
I changed to 'no' and it still plays at a normal speed for me. Maybe its a tiny bit slower or something but not enough for me to percieve anyway.
How much lag are we even talking, like blocky chug,chug,chug or 4x slower or something?



EDIT AGAIN:
Ok, looked at the butchered version, yeah that's what I meant about merging plus signs (though there are probably other scripting lines I'd delete as a result and stuff, and I have another thing I want to tweak), and you shrunk the sky box too... so only 15,000 sidedefs is still producing slowdown?? Did you try deleting the circular columns?

There's one other thing I can think of that might cause slowdown:
In some cases I have sectors where the floor is greater than the ceiling. Could this be the cause?

Last edited by gggmork on 11-03-09 at 00:01

Old Post 11-02-09 22:24 #
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Snakes
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Map21 - The revenants in sector 0 had an odd tendency to wander to the back of the hall way instead of fighting me. Green Herring is right about the secret... I never even attempted to get that stuff as I didn't see it as worth it. Then when I played through again I had real "GAAH!" moment.

Visually, this is a good looking map, but I do get a strange visual bug thanks to the 3d bridges.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/...1102_211825.png

Not a great shot, but that's the general idea. It happened a lot and sometimes sergeants disappeared from sight altogether. Odd.

Map22 - I tested the hell out of this because I finished it, then saw that Green Herring couldn't finish, and then I couldn't again for the longest time. But I think I finally found out the problem with the exit. Really bizarre, actually. One has to wait until the pillars lower all of the way before shooting linedef 3222. However, this makes the last switch on the map absolutely pointless. If you shoot quickly, the pillars won't rise back up. How to fix it? Shoot, I'm not experienced enough to make any real suggestions.

There were some other gameplay elements that I found a bit lacking.
-Sectors 174 and 175 being clearly marked make the first trap easy to abuse by standing on one of them and clearing half the monsters out, then moving.
-Then, you can make the caco teleport early making linedef 861's effect pretty useless, as it just traps you the player in a lava-filled room.
-The way this level is constructed is a little frustrating. The up/down effect is overused and at times, makes progress really slow. I'd make sector 121 rise permanently. And maybe 435 behave like a lift. This is personal taste, though. Others can chime in if they think that's being a little too critical.


I really like Map22 visually and it has a cool layout, I think. Tweaking these problems, I could see it being a favorite of mine.

EDIT: I see the exit thing was already discussed so.... yeah.

Old Post 11-03-09 03:31 #
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Jodwin
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About the amount of lag, it's not huge for me, but enough to make playing much harder than it would be without. However my biggest concern is all those other people who have slower computers and who would suffer much more from the lag.

I'll keep trying out different optimization things later on today.

Old Post 11-03-09 08:22 #
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Kyka
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So I was playing the original Claustrophobia1024 to see what sort of quality we should be going for, and i found no less than 5 levels which I had never seen before. 5 Levels. That is a lot, given i was one of the playtesters for the original claus. Mek must have made a lot of last minute changes!! Also obviously, I never played the final release until now. Well after its release I mean. Anyway, on with the playtesting. 0_o


MAP 19 (Complex4k by Kingkill33 and yours truly.)
--------

This version of the map has changed in places, which was why I was confused at some of the other testers comments. But now I see what they mean.

ARCHITECTURE:

-Remove action/sector tag from linedef 1686 completely. and then give sector 497 sector tag 15, the same as the other door nearby, sector 254. This will remove the problems mentioned by Hawkwind and TGH, as well as making this area much easier for the player to notice that these doors are now open. If you do this, you will have to make the chaingunner in sector 400 face south instead of north.
-linedefs 1687 and 1695 should have their texture set to QKTRIM00, the same as linedefs 1286 and 1632 on the other side of the doorway.
-linedefs 1993 and 1865 need a slight aligning.
-linedefs 1931 and 1934 need aligning to match up with linedefs 1930 and 1331 (uber picky)
-linedefs 4607, 3049, 3157 should all be impassable.
-linedefs 6389, 6397, 6399 should all be impassable also.
-linedefs 3079, 3081 should also be impassable.
-sector 220 should be merged with sector 487, (so that sector 487 is the 'surviving' sector, which would perhaps fix the big snail trail bug that TGH pointed out in the mining room.
-The bars over the exit switch at sector 1200 are a bit pointless. Tho if you do leave them in, make sure to set the ceiling texture to QKFTRM03
-Sectors 1056, 1057, 1058, 1059, 1060, 1061, 1062, 1063, 1064, 1065, 1066, 1067 (All the light sectors in the final exit area) need their light levels increased by 16. If you look at the floor, you can see the outer 'ring' of light is darker than the main floor area, which looks kinda weird.
-linedefs 1049, 2050, 2977, 2978 need some aligning to better match the ceiling of sectors 488 and 326.


GAMEPLAY:
-as TGH pointed out, the switch at linedef 6229 can be hit through the crate. Man was i pissed when i read this. I spent forever getting that switch not to be hittable through the crate. Guess I didn't check the sides well enough. :( (I tried something like this just now and it worked ok, moving the switch away from the offending crate side tho, not leaving it in the center, if you know what I mean.)
-the cutoff pillars at sector 447, 449 and 451 make this room far harder than it used to be. I figure that whoever removed them did so to increase movement in that little room, but the trouble is, those pillars were there originally to give the player some cover from the 2 revenants that teleport in behind them. No pillars = no cover, which is likely to be a much more annoying situation than any annoyance the pillars themselves create. Perhaps you could just make the two side pillars full pillars again and leave the middle one raised off the ground. i am not sure, but to me having no cover is far worse than leaving these pillars in. Or, a simpler solution is to remove the four teleporting imps and just leave the two revenants, which is a much fairer fight without the pillars. Or two hell knights perhaps. But something needs to be done anyway.
-I seem to recall that the medikit secret at sector 1028 used to have a soul sphere in it instead of a medikit.. Perhaps this would be better, and would make it a much more worthwhile secret.
-Some more health in the room at sector 826 would be good, as everything that happens after this area is pretty brutal, as well as covering ground that has already been fought over, so not likely that much health will be elsewhere for the player to pick up.
-linedef 283 should be block monster, as otherwise the archvile at the end of the level just runs up the stairs to sector 36, rather than staying in the open area and raising all the corpses out there, which is what he is supposed to do. It makes a much better fight too.

Last edited by Kyka on 11-04-09 at 15:43

Old Post 11-03-09 15:09 #
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