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esselfortium

32in24-9: Return of DUEL CORE! - Final bugfixed release on page 5!

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After five days, 32in24-9 is now RELEASED! It is sitting in the idgames incoming/ folder as we speak. But if you want to play it immediately, you may download it here: http://disasterlabs.com/thegreenherring/temp/32in24-9.zip

Merry Christmas to everyone!

EDIT (12/26/2009 7:11 PM PST): It's on idgames/ now!

FINAL CHANGELOG:

General -
* New TITLEPIC, approved by Shaikoten.
* EMAPINFO for use with Eternity.

MAP04: Time Zones Can Be Rough -
* "Cleaned up texturing (and changed flats and some room styles), added items. Took an extra 1hr (so total time spent on the map is now ~4hrs)." [traversd]

MAP18: This is a Crappy Map -
* Errors fixed. [TheMionicDonut]

MAP33: Hate Processing Bunker -
* "It was possible to jump out one of the small windows, so I made it impassible. Also, you can no longer reach the plasma rifle by simply jumping." [lupinx-Kassman]

MAP35: Dueling on My Mind -
* Errors fixed. [TheMionicDonut]

MAP36: Isenheiss -
* High-up items are now reachable without jumping.

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DANM! I just fix 2 ceiling textures on 2 small sectors that I just discover this morning on my first map and hoping to updated it later tonight after going through a Christmas party and work but it seems I'm too late :( Oh well, I don't think most people will notice them anyway.
I had fun doing this and looking forward to participate in 32in24-10 in the near future.

Also MERRY CHRISTMAS!

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I wasn't sure if I was even going to respond to this, but after having just gotten morbidly curious enough to check out the other half of the maps which thusfar I hadn't ventured near, upon seeing map30 I surely feel a dire urge to vent spleen on the matter.

Firstly lemme drop some choice quotes from a buddy who took time to admire the compilation:
"....map05 IS HURTING MY EYES
and it's hard not to get stuck even in spectator mode. baaaaaaad.

yeah i've just seen map06
was it teleported from year 1995?
look ma! i am MAPPING!

haha it's just getting better
map07 says a very clear message
HI, I HATE DM PLAYERS, FUCK YOU GUISE!

map14 is small and silly, but with the standard of this wad... it's actually decent, like top5 so far, lol
oh fuck this, i can't stand it anymore"


At a rough estimate I'd say that there are probably no more than maybe ten maps that are perhaps worth taking time to play in this pack. As my poor buddy stated - shortly before he gouged out his eyes and chopped off his own hands - this is pretty much an insult to anybody who'd want to play 1on1 even just for the lolz. The very first 32in24 was way better than this.

For the same reason that you're unlikely to see me take a crack at making an SP map then I think a lot of the submitters for this should have had the good sense to take a back seat. Maybe next time instead of 40-of-'94 you could aim for some quality control instead?

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the second half is better imo, the people who put time and effort in were there. :shrug:

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Cybershark...this is a speedmapping compilation. The Green Herring spent a few days fixing some various map bugs, but this type of 32in24 isn't supposed to have quality control. It's a speedmapping session. Every finished map that was submitted in the 24 hours was included. Some of them are good, some of them are total crap. I agree that this wasn't one of the better turnouts, quality-wise, but this was a mapping exercise, not an attempt to win another Cacoward. :P

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Cybershark said:

I wasn't sure if I was even going to respond to this, but after having just gotten morbidly curious enough to check out the other half of the maps which thusfar I hadn't ventured near, upon seeing map30 I surely feel a dire urge to vent spleen on the matter.


Where's your speedmaps?

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esselfortium said:

this type of 32in24 isn't supposed to have quality control. It's a speedmapping session.

Hey well if you're willing to bend the 32 then why bother sticking to any other convention? And yes I'm quite aware what speedmapping is - I have participated in a couple of these remember? But as the compilation and bug-fixing take place quite outside the initial day then what's wrong with taking time for some added quality control too?

esselfortium said:

...this was a mapping exercise, not an attempt to win another Cacoward. :P

Yeah I get that, I wasn't expecting a wentire megawad of the finest gemstones. What I did expect was for a greater portion of the maps to kinda do what the challenge specified. Truthfully (but with no malice aforethought) I have to say that some of the earliest Doom1 uploads to the idgames archive make for more qualified DM maps than the greater number of 32in24-9 designs.

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Oh please, save us your childish 'CRY MOAR' response. Like it's me that should be stepping off for trying to see a tighter product released?

Also good luck finding me one of your 'congressmen' in the UK!

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Cybershark said:

Oh please, save us your childish 'CRY MOAR' response. Like it's me that should be stepping off for trying to see a tighter product released?

Also good luck finding me one of your 'congressmen' in the UK!

How about you shut the fuck up? Also try to do a better speedmapping wad with as much maps and better quality in 24 hours alone, good luck. If you can't contribute anything then leave your retarded thoughts for yourself mr. I love excessive quality in 24 hour wads so you must suck my dick.

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Hi. This 32in24 was about the mappers having fun. I am not under the illusion that anyone will play this wad more than once--just like all 32in24s except 4, 5, 7, and maybe diet but probably not. Again, this is an EXERCISE. In fact, if you'd like these maps to be better, go ahead and provide constructive criticism. Many of these mappers are new to DM or mapping in general.

But mainly 32in24 is about getting maps and ideas out of people's skulls and out in the open. And then, often, these basic, shitty maps are expanded upon and included in "real" wads with polish. Now personally, am I a little disappointed that more of the wads were not jumping heavy duel maps? Sure. But I wasn't running the project this time, so I can't really say shit about that, can I? The fact of the matter is, many relatively newbie mappers will get their start in a project like this, and a start is better than nothing. This casual, relaxed environment allows people who would otherwise not contribute with little fear of being heckled.

Let's take esselfortuim as a prime example. Prior to the first 32in24 he had never, ever, made a Deathmatch wad. For what reason, I couldn't tell you. However, after making his first DM map for 32in24-1, he went on to start the project spacedm5, and has contributed to every 32in24 project since.

My point is, Cybershark or anyone else, just relax and don't worry too much about the quality of this 32in24. When we have a set that's more about quality and less about beginners, trust me, it will be stated. But after working on greenwar 2, the core members were a bit burnt out on heavy detail and thinking lots.

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The results of this session were interesting (as they usually are). A number of these unfortunately missed the mark for duel maps. Many are just too spacious, some are too small, others face the issue of it being difficult for players to navigate, and (let's face it) some of these are just really fun.

I don't feel the problems with these maps are a direct sign of any person's lack of designing skill, but rather an indication that making good duel maps is a difficult task for a person to do (even if you didn't have a time limit like 24 hours at all).

All that being said, I think a good chunk of these would work pretty well for FFA at least.

So, good job team. It's bursts of mapping activity like this that really help mappers improve and get some gaming layouts out in the open.

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I agree that complaints about quality are misplaced here. It's easy enough to simply not play an installment if you don't like it, and even "low-quality" installments serve a very good purpose for the community, encouraging new mappers as Shaikoten said.

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excessive quality. woah, that's a term i've never seen before. cybershark is getting so much flak for stating the obvious. anyways, because i'm the author of those quotes (and my eyes grew back), i'm going to elaborate map-by-map style. and keep in mind, i'm trying to be gentle not to hurt your fragile feelings (oh the witty, snarky comebacks!)

map01: too spacy for 1on1, should've been made more compact. might work for 4-8 ffa. the plasma puzzle is a failed concept. why would i want plasma in such large hallways when there's tons of hitscan weapons everywhere? should've been bfg. a decent effort.
map02: a silly, somewhat cute gimmick. i applaud the absence of ssgs, might actually be fun for a while.
map03: a box in a box with some decorations on them. pimp my box, dawg. Mapping Time: 3 Hours, 15 minutes. concept time those 15 minutes, right?
map04: a very solid map for a speedmapping contest. i can imagine some serious games on this map IF the soulsphere is turned off by dmflags. picking the only ssg, then immediatelly teleporting to +100%? no. 3rd place overall imo.
map05: ohmygod the sky. it's giving me eye cancer. the map is a crappy tiny box. no thanks.
map06: what i said earlier. also, i was sad there's no rl so i couldn't just jump out of the map and go camp in that faaaaaaraway cavern with absolutely nothing in it. a hilarious filler.
map07: what i said earlier. is this an overflow from the claustrophobia overflow? how am i supposed to MOVE in it? horrible.
map08: decent effort. simple, but the possibility to jump on that rl platform could allow some fun. sorta feels like an average map from onsl2 or something. some crazy ffa could be entertaining here.
map09: ROFL. no. no no no. this one is from 32in24seconds, right? this is less elaborate than shoot!.wad
map10: make 31 similar ones and you have dwango3224 or what is the next number in line. uninteresting and too gray/simple for 1on1, but i'm sure people would play it as ffa on russian zdaemon servers.
map11: heh. i can see what it was supposed to be, but it didn't work. the plasma elevator idea fails and plasma isn't useful in this map anyways (should've been bfg, there's enough cover). so it's a small circle with one ssg and one cg. swing&miss, but at least there was an effort.
map12: when i first saw this map, i got angry. now i saw it again and guess what, i got angry again. just no. it's NOT a quick&funny idea. duels don't work like this. not only the map design, but ssg vs chainsaws? i'm gonna cry.
-a break to take a walk outside, sobbing-
map13: this should've been map07, it fills the theme. maybe have a respawning mancubus instead of that plasma, ha. i wouldn't bother grabbing it anyways. this is hitscan country. decent.
map14: as i said earlier, a decent quick effort. looks like a tiny crazy ffa map with all the weapons thrown around.
map15: this might be fun, but there's some mega annoying corners sticking into space. also probably easily dominated, but yeah. i can understand this as a speedmap effort.
map16: if this was a ffa wad, this would be the 'stupid map with those boxes' everyone plays but is glad when it's over.
map17: hehhh. when i see this map, i think skulltag. don't ask me why. :)
map18: another square map, yay. feels hollow and pointless.
map19: the best looking map in the wad. fantastic architecture and detailing. sadly, i don't see any gameplay in it (maybe as a single player map).
map20: i don't know what to say about this, but it really doesn't look like fun.
map21: ffs look at this. this is how a duel map looks like! i want to play it, the fast gameplay just REEKS from it. 2nd place overall, i need to remember the number so i don't have to crawl through the rest again to find it.
map22: a small square with rounded corners and three weapons. i don't see why i should be playing this. or even considering it.
map23: hmm. mediocre effort? maybe. i don't even know anymore, my quality assessment centre is already pretty damaged again.
map24: so tired. must rest. why am i doing this? to defend cybershark? am i really that loyal? shouldn't i just run for the hills and let you torch him alone?
map25: absolutely a ffa map. not sure how ballanced it is (probably not), but i wouldn't want to use all those other weapons in just 1on1. decent.
map26: a square map from donut. i'm starting to see a pattern here. on the other hand, this one looks okay. i mean, those rooms promise some tactical battles (maybe). a thumb up. probably.
map27: a night map. a square. a battle for lightamp. nnnnnooooooo.
map28: yes! a joke map! so we can have sad maps and joke maps which aren't funny.
map29: i think i like this map. on the other hand, it has floor detail and the 'missing floor tiles' every dm player loves with passion. so it has it's ups and downs, which makes it 250% more complex than most of the rest. top5 imo.
map30: .... :( it looks like a 3d reconstruction of one of the weirder missions from the end of x-com: apocalypse. tgh, dm players aren't from another planet. :)
map31: like map01, the halls are too wide and narrow for some sensible 1on1. it's an average ffa map, though.
map32: waaaay too huge for... anything. and there's... nothing. it's just so big and empty. looks like a quickly reworked ctf concept.
map33: heyyy this one's sweet. it's full of ideas (*GASP*)! definitely top5.
map34: what can i say? i'd flee in terror from duelling on this, but it could be a fun ffa if crowded by... 8 to 10 players. :)
map35: kill me now. i have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
map36: a very symplistic arena that i'm rrrreally not a fan of.
map37: sorry, but i don't see how this works in duels. on the other hand, add more obstacles and pillars... bam! a racing speedmap!
map38: the outside area is somewhat interesting, but the inside part is just empty rooms with no purpose. should've gone for just a stairy-mazey map.
map39: i'm getting really exhausted and this is kinda empty and simple and nothing catches my eye, so whatever.
map40: finally. look at this and tell me you're not ashamed of your map. rott rules. the best piece of the wad. you can tell it was designed with a sense of purpose, not just 'ok i got me some rooms, now what.' the bfg is in a trap-like room, yet not too hard to get, because it's not overpowered in such a design. it looks nice overall and has interesting ideas everywhere. learn from this guy, people.
map41: bland. i'd probably keep getting lost all the time.
map42: naaaah. big and open with no points of interest.
map43: AHAHA. the joke maps are here. not. funny.
map44: action filled with huge stairs and emptiness!
map45: i need a drink. preferably methylalcohol.

i'd take out rott's map and a few others, put them in a small wad with decent quality level and dump the rest. if someone wanna gets all butthurt, feel free to do so. i won't fight back. i just tried to stay positive even while facing this shitstorm and spent as much time writing this as you'd take to build a new map from scratch. info about myself to ease namecalling: i came from zdaemon. i am a decent duelist. i have never mapped a single room. i still think i can have an opinion about what's good and what's not.

EDIT: now that some level-headed people responded while i was writing this oversized nonsense, i feel like a jerk. sorry.

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map29: i think i like this map. on the other hand, it has floor detail and the 'missing floor tiles' every dm player loves with passion. so it has it's ups and downs, which makes it 250% more complex than most of the rest. top5 imo.

Thanks. Though, uhm, the floor detail in this is generally drop-downs that are small enough that you don't fall into them when you stand/walk/run over them. You can walk over the floor tiles without your height changing at all, even for a tic. The only thing I can think of that you could be having problems with is the two "windows" that you jump through for the gap in the upper path, though that was less detail for the sake of detail and more me making the textures align properly while keeping the gap crossable...

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ok i tried it and you're right. sweet! so your map has mostly ups and an unknown amount of undiscovered downs that should be evaluated by _playing_ the map by as many people as possible. :)

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Thanks for running the 32in24 session guys. I agree with everyones comments. Looking at a few of the previous packs there was certainly more of an intent to make something special in 24 hours. But that certainly doesnt mean what was just done was for nought. It certainly seems to have given alot of people a bit of interest and inspiration for mapping in general :)

I'm still working on MAP04 for a separate release. Thanks for the comments re: the soulpshere Dew I'll check it out :) I'll do another thread at some point but here is how it's looking now.




cheers
-t

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dew said:

map25: absolutely a ffa map. not sure how ballanced it is (probably not), but i wouldn't want to use all those other weapons in just 1on1. decent.
.


dang, I guess I can only make dm maps still or I should play more duals so I know what a good dual map is. (and when I made it I kinda fiqured it was more of a dm map)

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Edit: Actually never mind, you were just being condescending. I was a fool to fall for that.

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Is beaty seen my maps looks cramped for you zdaemon\skulltags fagns. Whatever Best Wad Ever this wins a mock cacoward lol.

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walter confalonieri said:

Is beaty seen my maps looks cramped for you zdaemon\skulltags fagns. Whatever Best Wad Ever this wins a mock cacoward lol.

This is an English-speaking forum.

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I read dew's comments on the maps and I agree pretty much, but the thing he and cybershark have to understand is that first and foremost this is just a fun mapping exercise that anyone can get in on, rather than a project such as: "I'm making this 1on1 wad, everyone participate *but* there's going to be quality control and only the best maps will be included." Most of the mappers here have rarely played 1on1 competitively before, and 1v1 being as complex as it is, it's only natural you're going to have a lot of maps that aren't good for that game mode. Modes like DM, single player, or even CTF are much easier to map for seeing as how the "basic idea" for each mode is pretty much how you map for it. Someone who's a competent mapper makes a CTF map, but hasn't played much CTF before will fare much better than 1v1, because while CTF has its intricacies, the idea is fairly straight forward. Basically mappers should accept his criticisms and learn from them, but at the same time still keep in mind this is just for fun, because I really don't want people to be hesitant to join in on the fun of mapping for 32in24 because of it turning into something more "serious".

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Indeed! I have learned so much from this exercise. Not only have I grown in experience building 1v1 maps, but also as a person. I impart my newfound knowledge to you all.

1) The SSG is the only weapon in the game.
2) Hallways, hallways, hallways.
3) Avoid changes in lighting, elevation, map flow.
4) "Figure eights" are your friend!
5) Encouraging players to adopt a strategy = bad.

By following these simple guidelines, you can successfully distill the essential duel experience: running at each other in a straight line, in jousting fashion, judging the exact distance at which to fire your SSG for a one-hit kill.

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Haha yes!! It is indeed very fun to over-simplify things you don't understand!! Haha doom is so damn stupid all you do is hit switches and get keycards rofll!!!!

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Bucket said:

Indeed! I have learned so much from this exercise. Not only have I grown in experience building 1v1 maps, but also as a person. I impart my newfound knowledge to you all.

1) The SSG is the only weapon in the game.
2) Hallways, hallways, hallways.
3) Avoid changes in lighting, elevation, map flow.
4) "Figure eights" are your friend!
5) Encouraging players to adopt a strategy = bad.

By following these simple guidelines, you can successfully distill the essential duel experience: running at each other in a straight line, in jousting fashion, judging the exact distance at which to fire your SSG for a one-hit kill.


This. Sad but true...at least the odd numbers. (2 also works with wide open spaces and 4 isn't really true).

The only way to create a duel map (or any DM map for that matter) that doesn't work like this is to exclude the SSG altogether, or at least have just the 1 and make it hard to reach.

(unless ofc you somehow get it spot on with every aspect of gameplay and get a well-balanced strategic map as a result, which can happen sometimes)

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Well I guess I might as well try harder to disprove your silliness.

1) The SSG is the only weapon in the game.
I'm not really gonna argue with this one too much because it's sort of true, but the other weapons, even the shotgun and chaingun, have their uses.

2) Hallways, hallways, hallways.
I'm not sure where this is coming from, all maps have hallways, they're inevitable.

3) Avoid changes in lighting, elevation, map flow.
Judas23, Dweller2 Map11, King1, and a number of other 1v1 maps would like to have a word with you.

4) "Figure eights" are your friend!
?!?!?

5) Encouraging players to adopt a strategy = bad.
If by "adopt a strategy" you mean "adapt to a map that's not suited for 1v1 play", then sure I guess. Almost all good 1v1 maps allow for different types of play.

"By following these simple guidelines, you can successfully distill the essential duel experience: running at each other in a straight line, in jousting fashion, judging the exact distance at which to fire your SSG for a one-hit kill."

Some maps are guilty of this of course, but that's pretty much doom 2 gameplay in a nutshell.


To be fair I honestly can't tell whether Bucket was mocking the people complaining about the quality of of the maps, or mocking the maps themselves. I kind of went with the former though, so if I made the wrong choice I'm sorry!!

VVV

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