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Whoo
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InsanityBringer said:
What if they don't want said features though? There are a decent amount of purists out there and not every mod needs such content. It's that can either make a project good or kill it.

This.

01-04-10 22:37 #

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D_GARG
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Whoo said:

This.

ööööh? what?

01-04-10 22:46 #

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Pavera
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What exactly is the point of all of this? I still don't quite understand what you're doing. Are you editing the original levels themselves? Recreating them from scratch? What?

Either way it seems extremely pointless so far.

01-04-10 22:51 #

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D_GARG
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Krispavera said:
What exactly is the point of all of this? I still don't quite understand what you're doing. Are you editing the original levels themselves? Recreating them from scratch? What?

Either way it seems extremely pointless so far.

well, from the beginning i was thinking of what you guys would think of my idea about modifying the doom1.wad levels directly on the iwad file, the option was to just copy the maps inte something from scratch.

now my idea have evolved into even adding some decorate into it, and skipping the modifications of doom1.wad beacuse they have already been done by me, and alot of other peaple (but they made it all from scratch)

so, the point was (from the beginning ) what u would like about it.

now, the next step seem to be to make alot of stuff all from scratch and abandon the doom1.wad idea beacuse its already done. (or ...? )

so, thats it, so far. this will keep on roll.

01-04-10 22:59 #

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Super Jamie
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I think the idea of expanding on the IWAD levels with increased amounts of detail and difficulty is great. I've often wished someone would do this well, whilst keeping it relatively classic and Boom-compatible. Indeed Remain1 does this for Doom 2 and it's one of my favorite wads ever.

Adding DECORATE and ACS and all that shit has all been done before with KDiZD and it failed miserably. I am sick of seeing the same tired old beastiary monsters and hearing the same tired old Quake sounds that everyone seems to use in ZDoom. Adding slopes and GL lighting to a map does not instantly make it better, quite the opposite.

I also think this thread needs less talk and more action. At least post some screenshots of the levels you've modified so far. Are you going to post those other original maps you mentioned in your first post?

01-04-10 23:24 #

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D_GARG
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Super Jamie said:
I think the idea of expanding on the IWAD levels with increased amounts of detail and difficulty is great. I've often wished someone would do this well, whilst keeping it relatively classic and Boom-compatible. Indeed Remain1 does this for Doom 2 and it's one of my favorite wads ever.

Adding DECORATE and ACS and all that shit has all been done before with KDiZD and it failed miserably. I am sick of seeing the same tired old beastiary monsters and hearing the same tired old Quake sounds that everyone seems to use in ZDoom. Adding slopes and GL lighting to a map does not instantly make it better, quite the opposite.

I also think this thread needs less talk and more action. At least post some screenshots of the levels you've modified so far. Are you going to post those other original maps you mentioned in your first post?

some screen shots are up, but i dont know if i am ALLOWED to use the modifyed IWAD shareware doom1.wad, maybe i should instead put the maps in a PWAD so u just run doom.wad with my PWAD

01-05-10 00:11 #

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myk
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Super Jamie said:
Indeed Remain1 does this for Doom 2 and it's one of my favorite wads ever.

I would say it's like NMD or WD, but it doesn't imply more difficulty or detail. Neither of which are necessarily an improvement. Like many E1 or DOOM remakes, it simply gives an author's take on the original level concepts. If there is any extra complexity or challenge, it stems mostly from the designer's style and updated technology, and not as a "step up".

Levels produced as a result of a dissatisfaction with the originals tend to produce stuff that is different than them in essential ways, and potentially worse, by missing the point.

In short, Remain1 gives a level set for vanilla that again captures the mood or feel of the original levels, from Eternal's eyes.

D_GARG said:
i dont know if i am ALLOWED to use the modifyed IWAD shareware doom1.wad,

You aren't. It has to be a PWAD for the registered game.

01-05-10 00:18 #

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Super Jamie
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Ah, sorry I missed the screenshots earlier. They look like the IWAD levels with IWAD-style expansions built onto them. Nothing that really blows me away, or would even require a limit-removing port.

You should use a PWAD, distributing modified IWADs is illegal.

myk said:
I would say it's like NMD or WD

Not really.

Remain1 is based on the original levels, the maps mostly follow the layout and theming of the maps Romero et all made back in 1994.

NMD is new layouts done in a style reminiscent of the IWAD levels. It uses textures in a similar way and the gameplay is similar but the layouts are totally original.

WD is just the IWAD areas copypasted in a different order between featureless hallways with minor modifications made like lifts that go down instead of up, or U-shaped detailing made open.

01-05-10 00:20 #

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D_GARG
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OKAY

now we have a name for the wad , now its a pwad with further modifications and uppgrades BUT there is no texture files inside the wad (is this necessary?), now we will hit the big leagues:

shall this wad be run in DooM, or ... DooM2?

if we choose doom2 we will have even more capacity of making it difficult, and there will be three more weapons to find, and a lot, lot more texures and power-ups and effects and. oh, i almost dropped my pants!

'so, what you say?'

01-05-10 01:05 #

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myk
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Super Jamie said:
Not really.

Yeah really!

You are correct in stating they follow different design principles, which I addressed vaguely by saying "author's take" later, but my point was that Eternal's principal idea wasn't "more detail and difficulty" but rather his personal take on the level concepts. You more or less asserted what I said by noting how each author took the essentials in different ways according to their initiative and style, highlighting some design aspect in the originals. Eternal tried to capture the same design concepts in his own way, NMD followed episode style more freely, and WD stuck to both technical and conceptual design elements in a sort of remix.

01-05-10 01:33 #

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D_GARG
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myk said:
Yeah really!

You are correct in stating they follow different design principles, which I addressed vaguely by saying "author's take" later, but my point was that Eternal's principal idea wasn't "more detail and difficulty" but rather his personal take on the level concepts. You more or less asserted what I said by noting how each author took the essentials in different ways according to their initiative and style, highlighting some design aspect in the originals. Eternal tried to capture the same design concepts in his own way, NMD followed episode style more freely, and WD stuck to both technical and conceptual design elements in a sort of remix.

thats the Big Leagues I guess, intresting to read i must say.

BTW it was mentioned that this thread talk more that it produce.
the thing is, that while i hear/read your replies i build on what we say in here. the talking instructs the build-works.

... and, i cant stop writing. at least not in this thread.

01-05-10 01:46 #

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Super Jamie
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myk said:
things

So following your reasoning, every PWAD ever made for Doom is essentially the "author's take" on the original 1993 game, they just follow the style "more freely".

WD is as much a "remix" as playing a MIDI with a different soundfont. It's so close to being an IWAD hack I'm actually surprised it's allowed on idgames.

01-05-10 02:31 #

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myk
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Super Jamie said:
So following your reasoning, every PWAD ever made for Doom is essentially the "author's take" on the original 1993 game, they just follow the style "more freely".

I don't think someone who follows my reasoning in that way is using his or her mental capabilities very well, if they aren't flawed or limited. The re-creation aspect is so evident in the three WADs that it's even noted in their text files. Very many PWADs either make no general attempt of this sort (even though they might take bits and pieces here and there) or simply aim for new of different styles altogether. Note that even while you may consider the classification potentially vague, my point was that the three such PWADs don't concentrate on more difficulty or detail, unlike others.

01-05-10 02:46 #

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D_GARG
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i wonder how you make monsters act like the barons of hell with the walls in e1m8.

is it the flags value that activates the walls tag:666 or what?
i want to make a door to be "locked in a monster".

how do i do this? (in doom2 or doom1)

01-08-10 22:57 #

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Super Jamie
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http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Tag_666

01-08-10 23:00 #

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D_GARG
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ok, now this wad is almost complete, its now a PWAD and its maps is based (in fact copied through doombuilder) on doom1 episode1 maps.
the copied maps are modifyed, am i allowed to release this wad to you
guys?

if i am, should i use DeHacked (or Whacked) to modify the monsters?

-its not fun makeing a wad wich no one will play-

02-16-10 07:45 #

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D_GARG
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---------
WAD RULES
---------

1. Don't upload anything that's based on or modified versions of the
original levels of any of the id Software games.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

oh shit, what to do now?

02-16-10 07:49 #

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Super Jamie
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Super Jamie said two months ago:

unless a remake is from scratch (eg: Remain1) of a very high standard (eg: Smedley) then modifications of the IWAD maps are not allowed on the /idgames archive.

Of course that doesn't stop you doing your own thing, so feel free to... host the project in your own webspace.

02-16-10 07:56 #

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D_GARG
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Super Jamie said:

so, as it looks so far i can upload this on my own webb site whitout getting flamed? ... EXELLENT :D

btw doom demo wad is freeware/shareware, that makes difference i guess

02-16-10 08:01 #

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myk
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D_GARG said:
btw doom demo wad is freeware/shareware, that makes difference i guess

No, it's copyrighted material owned by id Software (and ultimately ZeniMax, if I'm not mistaken.) The only difference is that you don't have to pay for it, otherwise you have to treat it exactly like the registered or commercial stuff.

02-16-10 08:35 #

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D_GARG
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myk said:
No, it's copyrighted material owned by id Software (and ultimately ZeniMax, if I'm not mistaken.) The only difference is that you don't have to pay for it, otherwise you have to treat it exactly like the registered or commercial stuff.

damn, but i hope they dont care really if i have theese modifyed maps of theirs, upploaded om my webbsite were any one can get it and just play it.

this discusion is getting intresting.

02-16-10 09:12 #

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GreyGhost
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So long as the registered IWAD's required to play the maps, you give credit where it's due and don't make any money out of this - you should manage to avoid litigation.

02-16-10 09:34 #

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D_GARG
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GreyGhost said:
So long as the registered IWAD's required to play the maps, you give credit where it's due and don't make any money out of this - you should manage to avoid litigation.

of course!

no doom1 IWAD required = fail

thats the number 1 rule for all pwads :)

02-16-10 11:02 #

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GreyGhost
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D_GARG said:

no doom1 IWAD required = fail

Actually it's the other way around - "Don't make maps that'll work with the shareware IWAD". Some source ports enforce that rule just in case the mapper's forgotten.

02-16-10 12:53 #

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D_GARG
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GreyGhost said:
Actually it's the other way around - "Don't make maps that'll work with the shareware IWAD". Some source ports enforce that rule just in case the mapper's forgotten.

shareware dont handle berserk pack, so you must have ultimate doom ( most common IWAD for doom1 i think)

there are episode 2 and 3 stuff in the Wad file thats under construction

so shareware will not work, if it does, then there is some really wierd shit in the users computer

02-17-10 10:59 #

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myk
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The confusion here is because you're saying "doom1" when DOOM1.WAD is the name of the shareware file and the registered and ultimate ones are called DOOM.WAD (without the 1.)

02-17-10 11:12 #

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D_GARG
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myk said:
The confusion here is because you're saying "doom1" when DOOM1.WAD is the name of the shareware file and the registered and ultimate ones are called DOOM.WAD (without the 1.)

yea, it all started at doom1, but then i found out all details whit copy right and

stuff

so now this stuff has developed into a accepteble form, wich requires DOOM.WAD

the doom1.wad does not have berserk pack for example, thats why doom1.wad wount work as iwad

02-17-10 13:42 #

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Mr. Chris
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I once was doing a project like this, significantly altering all the Doom1 (minus E4) and Doom 2 maps optimized for co-op plus extra content like APGFX, sounds, a little other stuff but after a while I lost interest in doing due to wandering if it would be worth it. I nuked the WIP from various sharing sites and the copies from my hard drives.

(Surely a few here remember me posting about this..)

I had two versions, the old one with simply adding extra things to the maps and the second one where I actually put in quite a bit of my own structural modifications to the maps. I didn't modified the IWADs directly but copied the map lumps into a PWAD for editing.

The major barrier I was thinking was the one about no modified IWAD files on the Archives and so-so, but I also found out from people over on what's left of NewDoom that a few people were still interested in it, but I ended up tellling them I stopped the project before I completed it (I had all of Doom done but stopped around MAP16 on Doom 2)

Last edited by Mr. Chris on 02-17-10 at 19:17

02-17-10 19:08 #

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D_GARG
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Mr. Chris said:
cool story

intresting, you had atleast the DOOM done, i rarely finnish anything myself but the wad of mine, i have decided to finnish it, and make it good

02-17-10 19:32 #

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Super Jamie
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D_GARG, if you've done Episode 1 why not release it so we can see what you've done and offer critique and help you improve your work on the following episodes? At least some screenshots would be cool.

Mr Chris, you also, even if it's just the first 16 maps it's still of interest!

One thing to remember here is that if the levels you've both made are significantly improved upon the originals then they are accepted into the archive. Levels like Smedley, Go2It and Wonderfull Doom all enjoy a home on idgames despite originally being IWAD levels. I am sure this comes down to Ty's judgement of your map (or more likely the wording of your txt file as he doesn't play every map) and any subsequent complaints received.

02-17-10 21:15 #

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Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > WADs & Mods > DOOM1 idea

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