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ArmouredBlood
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i tried saving the map without building nodes, but all that did was give me a nodeless map. Fortunately, just changing the flats and the green armor to a megasphere didn't change the nodes (significantly at least, maybe some monster somewhere behaved slightly different idk) so the only difference when playing your demo on this version is that you have 200/200 through the red keycard instead of picking up some medkits, as you're 28 hp otherwise. The yellow keycard gives you a megasphere too so it doesn't change anything there.

However a very real problem is that I forgot to make some teleports from the lava in the red skullkey >.< think I could just make the sides teleport switches and it'll be fine, but maybe not. Don't want to bother finding out now.
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM8v1.2.zip

Old Post 01-31-10 10:40 #
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Phml
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Nice speed. I haven't played the revised version yet but seeing the list of changes and the demo, it looks fine in every aspect.

Old Post 01-31-10 12:20 #
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ArmouredBlood
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So apparently all I've been feeling lately are speedmaps. And this one turned out extraordinarily easy to speed, getting a little over 2 minutes my first real attempt in prboom+ ... but I have no real idea how hard/easy it'd be to max. Gotta stop giving the plasma so early ... and actually come up with some nice big long maps like the first one, and kind of the second one. Also I stole the idea of the beginning from chaosorder, and I snagged a symphony x midi, yay.

http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM9v1.1.zip

Old Post 02-01-10 07:23 #
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Phml
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Here's a FDA that is, shall we say, less than stellar. :)

I don't understand how to approach this map yet, but it's looking good !

Old Post 02-01-10 07:50 #
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ArmouredBlood
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The lion switches actually open teleporters, it gets pretty straightforward after that.

Old Post 02-01-10 08:04 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Map 10 is finally about done. The very last tier of the end is ... not quite balanced, but should work. Might have to add something to the final room cause it's a little anticlimactic. Also snagged another symphony x midi.
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM10v1.0.zip

Old Post 02-15-10 06:52 #
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Phml
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TAS FDA (I can hear someone cringe about that), which is, ironically, harder than if it was a regular FDA.

Allow me to explain. I had only ten minutes to play and wanted to start the map, so I recorded for about nine minutes, then resumed play later with recordfromto. No other TAS features were used.

Of course, with my luck, the point I choose to stop was where things get a bit harder and as I wasn't warmed up yet I promptly got killed. Yay.

On to actual comments about the map : it's fun. Screw it, it's super duper awesome mega fun, because I found a secret that didn't seem completely obvious.

You'd think so much brown might look bad, but the IWAD textures look great for that. It was confined but not cramped, space and monsters were used well to provide interesting encounters without being tedious at any time. My one concern is it seems relatively easy to trivialise the encounters by moving backwards and letting stuff bunch up at one spot ; as it's the first part of the map I suppose it's not necessarily a problem.

I like what I saw and am going to play it more when I find the time.

Old Post 02-15-10 11:13 #
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Phml
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TAS again, using savestates when I died - no other TAS features.

Times I died :
- ~24 minutes in against the cacodemons, I got cornered. Restarted at the ~22 minute mark.
- ~37 minutes in against the megasphere cybie in that marble lowering floor. Three times. I feel this cyberdemon was especially unfair, as there's not much room to move at all.
- ~38 minutes in against the lift cybie. Restarted six times ! Even more frustrating than the previous one. You can barely see it and there's no space to shoot it while avoiding rockets.

Great stuff I especially liked :
- I found the cybie/imp encounter very creative. Restraining room with impassable lines yet not putting walls so avoiding rockets is possible, and added pressure with the imps. Very smart.
- The archviles/shotgunguys encounter was quite nice as well, judicious use of height variation turns what might have been a straightforward fight into an interesting one.
- Going back to the previous areas, the new monsters were used well and fights still felt right with the architecture. Nothing seemed tacked on just to give something to do, that's good.
- The cybie tunnels can be played straight or like a coward. I choose the coward option, and am grateful there was one so I didn't die repeatedly like in that previous map with 128 wide corridors and cybies/revs. Well done.
- The underwater area. First time I've seen deep water that is actually fun, without that crappy slowing down movement. Nice.
- The final fight. It's at the level of difficulty I like, hard but not too hard, enough room to move yet still have to be aware of the surroundings.
- Blue armor in sector 670. Nice to run all the way there and have a little bonus as a reward.

Concerns :
- Looking in DB2, I noticed there's demons + mancubii on easy in the "cybie + imp" UV room, as compared to only mancubii on normal.
- Sector 884 (door) doesn't open.
- Right after that, while I obviously couldn't play the part, I'm thinking fighting cybies there might be a little tedious. There's not a whole lot of space, and dying after a half an hour map in two rockets isn't so fun. Shooting from below isn't much of an option as they've got ample cover. I think extending linedef 4881 to the left by 64 or maybe even just 32 pixels would make it more fun.
- The aformentioned cybies in megasphere marble and lift need to go, IMHO. Ok, maybe the marble one could stay, but the lift one should die a horrible, fiery death. Another option would be to keep both but replace the marble megasphere with an invul, that'd work for me.
- It can be tough to get back to the final part if you TP out while flying monsters are still alive, they tend to swarm and block sector 528 with their infinitelytallness. That part could use a little more space.


A+ map. Please turn it into A++. :)

Old Post 02-15-10 12:23 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Cool, glad you liked it. Was kinda concerned the end wasn't looking as clean as the beginning, but I guess it wasn't too bad. Can't watch the fdas right now, got a test in a few hours ... but I will get to it after ;)

Phml said:
Concerns :
- Looking in DB2, I noticed there's demons + mancubii on easy in the "cybie + imp" UV room, as compared to only mancubii on normal.


oops. Fixed.


- Sector 884 (door) doesn't open.


oops. Fixed.


- Right after that, while I obviously couldn't play the part, I'm thinking fighting cybies there might be a little tedious. There's not a whole lot of space, and dying after a half an hour map in two rockets isn't so fun. Shooting from below isn't much of an option as they've got ample cover. I think extending linedef 4881 to the left by 64 or maybe even just 32 pixels would make it more fun.
- The aformentioned cybies in megasphere marble and lift need to go, IMHO. Ok, maybe the marble one could stay, but the lift one should die a horrible, fiery death. Another option would be to keep both but replace the marble megasphere with an invul, that'd work for me.

Cool idea, think that would work nicely. Gives incentive for the player to rush ahead while they still have invuln.


- It can be tough to get back to the final part if you TP out while flying monsters are still alive, they tend to swarm and block sector 528 with their infinitelytallness. That part could use a little more space.


Rockets ;p Eh idk, will think on that later. For now, have some quick fixes that might desynch demos, might not (only tagged a sector/added switch + thing changes).
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM10v1.1.zip

P.S. I left the megasphere in the marble cyber's octagonal in case the player ran out of invuln, it is kinda far to take an invuln.

Old Post 02-15-10 17:11 #
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gggmork
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10 looks cool. I'm pretty sure, near the castly part, when you press a lift it makes 2 other lift secretish things open as well- well you can go inside either and get stuck in there because it doesn't re-open? Kinda longish level and therefore harder to demo but looks challenging/interesting.

Old Post 02-18-10 00:23 #
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ArmouredBlood
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gggmork said:
10 looks cool. I'm pretty sure, near the castly part, when you press a lift it makes 2 other lift secretish things open as well- well you can go inside either and get stuck in there because it doesn't re-open? Kinda longish level and therefore harder to demo but looks challenging/interesting.


Yeah I forgot to make those re-open, think I changed it on my comp but haven't uploaded it yet. I'll probably do that when I decide what to do about the end cyberdemons. That bit is a LOT more compacted than I originally intended, and it's messing some things up ... (like the arch-vile and chaingunner pockets and the arachnotrons get completely wiped by the cybers' splash damage in boom).

Old Post 02-18-10 00:33 #
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hawkwind
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MAP 09 ...

The SW1LION textures on lines 4048 and 4069 look out of place. Suggest giving them the texture ADEL_B14.


MAP 10 ...

1. The "block monster" flag on line 1720 makes it quite easy to pick off the enemies in sectors 140 and 136.

2. Wrong floor flat for sector 518. It should be FWATER1.

3. In the general area of sector 518, why not add a watermap and make sectors 547,543 etc also fake floor ceiling ?

4. It is possible for the player to completely miss crossing line 15408 AND sector 902 will not open. Sector 902 needed a floor/ceiling height of 384/384.

... keep it up ... :)

Old Post 02-19-10 11:30 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Bleh, I'm kinda sick, just wanted to get this map done, so I kinda said 'fuck it' on the red key bit. Have fun.

http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM11v.9.zip

Old Post 02-26-10 04:42 #
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gggmork
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You're making some awesome maps. 10 looks fun/ quite challenging to do fast. I guess 11 is done too? Kinda reminds me of death destiny levels. At the end of the caco part on 10, like the last waterfall line thing has HOM or something for me. 2 of the masterminds on 10 seemed to only shoot me, without ever infighting. Could be a prboom bug or node bug or (more likely, like usual) just some stupid unknown problem unique to me.

Old Post 02-26-10 07:19 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Heh, thanks. Uhh, I should get back to fixing 10 (and basically tighten up 9), or I'm going to have to through up to 32 maps fixing crap when I'm finally out of boom-compat slots to map in -.- You'll notice I put v.9 in the zip name for map11 ... yeah it's actually more layout than finished on the red key bit and maybe the blue key bit, but it is mostly done, barring a bit of ammo/health fixing and possibly moving the bfg to the start of the red key like the blue key has so it's not a terrible slog up the switchbacks (you'll notice there're some 'decorative' stalagmite/stalactites. Playing that part without those got kinda bad since there are revenants on a nice big platform with plenty of firing angles ...). The whole beginning/yellow key bit is done though.

About the spidermasterminds, all I can think of is the vanilla hitboxes being funky. I thought nodes were just how the monsters moved vs. player pathways (which explains why phml's last map took forever to build without teleporters ;P).

P.S. what did you think of 9? haven't heard much from phml about it either. Very much a speedmap so it might change a bit when I finally get around to revamping maps.

Old Post 02-26-10 07:46 #
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Phml
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FDA. There's no yellow skullkey on the map, so I had to kill myself near the end.

Good, fun map. My one complaint would be I think the ceiling in the red hellish cave doesn't look right. Now I certainly am not on firm ground to complain about ceiling aesthetics, but I think here it could look much better by simply being higher. As it's barely over the head of the monsters on the highest rocks, you're bound to see it in all its flat one texture glory while looking at these monsters.

Old Post 02-26-10 12:04 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Phml said:
FDA. There's no yellow skullkey on the map, so I had to kill myself near the end.


Goddamnit =/ What happens when you're sick and don't feel like working on something anymore -.- Yeah the ceiling there is really crappy, it's meant to be all craggy and stalactite-y, but like I said I wasn't feeling it anymore. Will work on it a bit though.

Link for yellow skullkey >.<
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM11v.91.zip

Old Post 02-26-10 16:17 #
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gggmork
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Here's 6:21 max on 9. Could start a demo forum thread I guess, but seems some demos might desync if changes are made so maybe not.
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/21...cl9-max-ggg.lmp
10 looks more fun maybe because 9's route seems pretty straight forward, and all the viles die pretty easily w/ the invulns. I like how the bfg is far away in 10, so going fast might mean to pass beginning enemies quickly to try to get that- not sure how possible or what the best route might be.

Old Post 02-26-10 22:44 #
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hawkwind
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Please refer to my previous bug report. If you haven't got around to it because you are not well I apologise.

Map 09 ...

Lines 4048 and 4067 still need SW1LION changed to ADEL_B14.

You asked for comments on map 09. I didn't like the fact that sectors 579 and 566 still had FWATER1 as the flat when risen. Not sure whether anything can be done about that though.


MAP10 ...

At least do this ...

1. Sector 902 needed a floor/ceiling height of 384/384. This is supposed to be a door sector, not floor.

2. Change the floor of sector 518 to FWATER1. Without this chnage the player sees flat10 as the floor of the fake sector - looks bad.

Old Post 02-26-10 22:44 #
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gggmork
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For walkover lines at least, to make a texture lower or raise and change its flat or whatever:
it changes to the 1st side of the linedef that triggered it. For example, have a dummy doll walk over a line that makes some grass sector 'lower and change effect' or whatever, and also have the 1st side of that line that the dummy walked over have a water flat and the lowered grass will turn into water, etc. (i think)

Old Post 02-26-10 23:08 #
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ArmouredBlood
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I've been doing those changes and tidying up parts of maps 9,10, and 11 for the past 4-5 hours now, give me a chance to change the midi for 11 and I'll upload it ;P (didn't fit the map, plus it got annoying after a bit).

P.S. not the water map though, idk wth that is or how to implement it properly.

Old Post 02-26-10 23:20 #
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Phml
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(didn't fit the map, plus it got annoying after a bit


I didn't want to mention because tastes in music can vary greatly, but I also found it irritating (recorded with music set very low), am glad you're looking for a new one. :)

Old Post 02-26-10 23:33 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Alright, let's try this one. Midi is 49 minutes long, so try to make the map last ;P Still not sure it fits though, the themes in the map are just too far off to fit any one style :(
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM11v.99.zip

Old Post 02-26-10 23:47 #
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hawkwind
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Map 10 ...

Lines 5449 and 5446 need to be lower unpegged.


Map 11 ...

Possible serious bug ...

Imagine this ...

Player crosses line 273, from sector 35. Sector 42 lowers and stays lowered. Player proceeds to the teleport sectors 119 and 120, and completes the areas transported to.

Player now has the blue and red skullkeys to get to the teleporter at sector 149. Player teleports to sector 171.

Now here comes the problem ...

Sector 161 cannot be lowered because sector 42 was lowered earlier and impossible to get to door sector 53. Player is now trapped at sector 135.

Old Post 02-27-10 01:30 #
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ArmouredBlood
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hawkwind said:
Map 11 ...

Possible serious bug ...

Imagine this ...

Player crosses line 273, from sector 35. Sector 42 lowers and stays lowered. Player proceeds to the teleport sectors 119 and 120, and completes the areas transported to.

Player now has the blue and red skullkeys to get to the teleporter at sector 149. Player teleports to sector 171.

Now here comes the problem ...

Sector 161 cannot be lowered because sector 42 was lowered earlier and impossible to get to door sector 53. Player is now trapped at sector 135.



Wait ... how does the player get stuck at sector 135? he misses the yellow key or the voodoo-activated lifts f up?

The unpegged lines are fixed but I'd like to hold off on uploading just a simple change like that until something bigger comes along.

Old Post 02-27-10 01:42 #
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gun_psycho
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Looking at all those maps so far, you really hit the nail on the head in the "nintendo hard" territory.

Anyways, I'll test those maps out in Scoredoom.

Old Post 02-27-10 01:48 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Yay, more feedback ;)

Anyway, in the red key area in which I'm transferring a ceiling brightness of 1, monsters appear darkened in prboom+ 2.5.0.5 but not skulltag despite those sectors being at 128 or 192 brightness. Wth happened?

Old Post 02-27-10 02:27 #
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hawkwind
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More on map 11 bug ...

Player gets the yellow key but ...

Your error is with line 962 being once only.

To fix I suggest this ...

1. Delete line 962 altogether.
2. Give action 24898 - floor to lines 1067, 1068 and 1070 -tag 14.
3. Give action 13459 - lift to lines 912, 897, 1041, 1050, 901 and 906, making sure the line is facing the right direction and lower texture of ADEL_W53 - tag 14.... solved

Also ...

Give the floor of sector 161 the flat ADEL_F53, brighness 128 and lower unpeg lines 1018 and 1055.

UPDATE ...

It is the voodoo dolls . The error is with line 986 being diagonal. It must be east/west , horizontal.

Last edited by hawkwind on 02-27-10 at 02:54

Old Post 02-27-10 02:42 #
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ArmouredBlood
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hawkwind said:
More on map 11 bug ...

Player gets the yellow key but ...

Your error is with line 962 being once only.


Is that because the player could theoretically get back to the entrance and stop the floor moving up? I could make it a crusher too, since dying and getting stuck are pretty much the same in this map.



To fix I suggest this ...

1. Delete line 962 altogether.
2. Give action 24898 - floor to lines 1067, 1068 and 1070 -tag 14.


That allows the player to raise the lift up to 4 times. Not gonna work.

3. Give action 13459 - lift to lines 912, 897, 1041, 1050, 901 and 906, making sure the line is facing the right direction and lower texture of ADEL_W53 - tag 14.... solved

Interferes with opening the doors to the switch rooms. Not exactly a big problem for the imp side rooms, it should be kinda obvious the lift is going to go up. Maybe a kid going through in god mode might get stuck, but then it'll be a learning experience. At worst I could put a lowering-wall alcove that allows the player to teleport back to sector 135.


Also ...

Give the floor of sector 161 the flat ADEL_F53, brighness 128 and lower unpeg lines 1018 and 1055.


Noticed that a little bit ago after uploading, fixed and will upload changes later ...

Old Post 02-27-10 02:55 #
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hawkwind
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hawkwind said:
More on map 11 bug ...

Player gets the yellow key but ...

Your error is with line 962 being once only.

To fix I suggest this ...

1. Delete line 962 altogether.
2. Give action 24898 - floor to lines 1067, 1068 and 1070 -tag 14.
3. Give action 13459 - lift to lines 912, 897, 1041, 1050, 901 and 906, making sure the line is facing the right direction and lower texture of ADEL_W53 - tag 14.... solved

Also ...

Give the floor of sector 161 the flat ADEL_F53, brighness 128 and lower unpeg lines 1018 and 1055.

UPDATE ...

It is the voodoo dolls . The error is with line 986 being diagonal. It must be east/west , horizontal.



UPDATE 2 ...

prboom+ has no problem with the voodoo dolls, but gzdoom and risen3d do ........... which port(s) is(are) at fault ?

My above solution should work for all boom compat. ports though.

Old Post 02-27-10 03:00 #
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