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hardcore_gamer
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walter confalonieri said:
ok, i played the map.
It's a good map, nice visuals but there's to fix this ceiling texture and maybe add an exit.... but it's ok.



Add an exist? Am I the only person here who is aware of the fact that his map isn't finished?

No offense.

EDIT: Also, I always design my maps from the perspective of someone who doesn't use mouselook. I will fix the issue on the screenshot you posted though.

EDIT: Also, care to go into more detail about the map? "ok, i played the map. It's a good map" doesn't really tell me much.

Old Post 03-02-10 19:20 #
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Snakes
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Check your PMs, hardcore_gamer. Detailed notes are there.

Nice brooding tension, solid overall. Needs a good deal of refinement, though. I was wondering one thing, though: why the exit signs before the last stretch of dark force area? Seemed kind of random.

Old Post 03-03-10 23:20 #
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hardcore_gamer
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Snakes said:
Check your PMs, hardcore_gamer. Detailed notes are there.

Nice brooding tension, solid overall. Needs a good deal of refinement, though. I was wondering one thing, though: why the exit signs before the last stretch of dark force area? Seemed kind of random.



It's there to create false hope for the player. Just like E2M6 did :)

Old Post 03-04-10 11:30 #
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hardcore_gamer
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UPDATE:

Here are two new editor screens. One from a tech area and one from a hellish area.

As usual, all feedback is very appreciated.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8291/editor1.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3536/editor2.jpg

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Old Post 03-04-10 22:51 #
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doom_marine666
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One word: WWWOOOOAAAHHH!!! this look awsome I can't wait intill I get time to play this wad.

Doom_marine666

Old Post 03-06-10 03:28 #
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hardcore_gamer
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doom_marine666 said:
One word: WWWOOOOAAAHHH!!! this look awsome I can't wait intill I get time to play this wad.

Doom_marine666



Thanks!

And to make the waiting easier, here is another editor screen:

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8291/editor1.jpg

Old Post 03-07-10 18:33 #
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hardcore_gamer
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EDIT: Also, here is a new gameplay demo video showcasing a part of the level (and since I finally got FRAPS to work on my laptop there is sound this time!).

Enjoy! (If the video quality is poor then its because youtube hasn't finished processing the video yet, it should improve automatically after a short while)

EDIT: Sorry for double posting, this was suppose to be a edit of the above post. If possible perhaps an admin can merge this comment with the above one.

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Old Post 03-07-10 20:49 #
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jerrysheppy
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Please don't take this the wrong way, but the green marble Hell theme seems really out of place to the excellent Doom 3-esque environments in the first video. I would have expected an aesthetic more like the Hell maps of Hell Ground or Legacy of Suffering. There's no problem with the mapping per se, it's just that the stock marble textures seem, well, vanilla compared to the base environments.

Obviously this comes down to a matter of taste, but as you're asking for feedback I thought I'd mention it.

Old Post 03-07-10 21:53 #
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hardcore_gamer
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jerrysheppy said:
Please don't take this the wrong way, but the green marble Hell theme seems really out of place to the excellent Doom 3-esque environments in the first video. I would have expected an aesthetic more like the Hell maps of Hell Ground or Legacy of Suffering. There's no problem with the mapping per se, it's just that the stock marble textures seem, well, vanilla compared to the base environments.

Obviously this comes down to a matter of taste, but as you're asking for feedback I thought I'd mention it.



I am primarily trying to capture the magic of PSX Doom and not Doom 3, I just thought the the Doom 3 style space station mixed with PSX Doom would make a nice combo.

Your feedback (as well as anybody else's) is still welcome though :)

Old Post 03-07-10 23:15 #
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dutch devil
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Not to be mean, but this doesn't look like something I would like to play. From what I could see in the screens and videos is that it is too dark, I could hardly see an damn thing. The map appears to be very flat with little height difference. Architecture is boring, nothing really stands out. It somehow reminded me to Wolfenstein, only more detailed. Don't get me wrong, I have been mapping for quite a while now. And I've developed an certain degree of knowledge of which things make an map really good or mediocre. I'm sure an certain group of people would enjoy playing it though, but I will probably be not one of them.

Old Post 03-13-10 20:52 #
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Aldaraia
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I'm looking forward to this wad, I am head over heels for giant levels with long gameplay times. Darkness, can make or break a level, but I'm confident. I figure this will be a wad that's best played at nighttime. :)

How linear is it going to be? Hopefully it has a linear progression from tech-base to Hell, with sequences of non-linear sections with interesting puzzles. I also happen to agree with Dutch Devil's criticism of lack of raising/descending sections throughout the level. Use it to your advantage!

Good luck!

Last edited by Aldaraia on 03-13-10 at 22:23

Old Post 03-13-10 22:18 #
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hardcore_gamer
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dutch devil said:
Not to be mean, but this doesn't look like something I would like to play. From what I could see in the screens and videos is that it is too dark, I could hardly see an damn thing. The map appears to be very flat with little height difference. Architecture is boring, nothing really stands out. It somehow reminded me to Wolfenstein, only more detailed. Don't get me wrong, I have been mapping for quite a while now. And I've developed an certain degree of knowledge of which things make an map really good or mediocre. I'm sure an certain group of people would enjoy playing it though, but I will probably be not one of them.


I know that height difference may not be all over the place in the videos I posted but that doesn't mean its not there, there are plenty of areas with height difference, but only when its actually relevant to the gameplay. My mapping style has always been more about creating fun yet not to complicated layouts rather then super non-linear areas that have large amounts of height difference just for the sake of looking good, my mapping style is more straight forward. I will admit that it is something not everybody including you aren't all that fond of but its just the way I map. So far a number of playtesters have told me the map was fine (besides a few texture issues) so I intend to stick with my current mapping style.

As for the darkness, yea that is something I am still working on so don't expect everything to be extremely dark in the finished version of the map.

Your feedback is still appreciated however :)


Aldaraia said:
I'm looking forward to this wad, I am head over heels for giant levels with long gameplay times. Darkness, can make or break a level, but I'm confident. I figure this will be a wad that's best played at nighttime. :)

How linear is it going to be? Hopefully it has a linear progression from tech-base to Hell, with sequences of non-linear sections with interesting puzzles. I also happen to agree with Dutch Devil's criticism of lack of raising/descending sections throughout the level. Use it to your advantage!

Good luck!



Their are areas that are linear, but there are also areas that aren't all that linear and give the player the option to take on different areas in whatever sequence/row that he wants to. There are also plenty of areas that the player doesn't actually have to explore, but can benefit from doing so.

Their are also a some puzzles, so its not just run and gun (though it is mostly :) )

As for the progression from tech-base to Hell, the hell areas will not just suddenly appear out of thin air. By the time you find yourself in hell then you will already have expected it. In addition to the teach and hell themes, I am also thinking about adding a third snow theme that takes place outside of the base (it is located on the North Pole, remember?).

This is basically what I am thinking:

1. Player starts in the base. (Done!)

2. Player enters a area of the base begin transformed by hell. (Done!)

3. Player enters a teleporter that is located in the hellish tech area that takes him to hell. (Done!)

4. Player is in a hell area. (Allot of stuff has been made. In progress).

5. Player finds demonic teleporter that takes him back to Earth, but instead of reappearing back inside the base he appears outside it, and thus the player finds himself in a snow/cave area.

6. Player finds his way to a small outpost that teleports him back to the base that is now even more demonically possessed.

7. Player fights his way through the demonically possessed base and then finds the main teleporter that takes him to hell again.

8. Player fights a epic boss battle with a new boss enemy.

9. The boss is defeated and the level ends, then a intermission text screen appear and informs the player of the results of his work while the PSX Doom theme songs plays in the background.

Thoughts?

Last edited by hardcore_gamer on 03-14-10 at 01:20

Old Post 03-14-10 01:13 #
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gemini09
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Looks very good. The rectangular design suits a military base, IMO, though I've never been to one.. :)

I agree with Jerrysheppy.

I think something like Marbgray would make a better main texture for the hell design, instead of Gstone1. It's not colorful like Gstone, and matches your base theme better... IMO.

Old Post 03-15-10 01:03 #
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hardcore_gamer
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gemini09 said:
Looks very good. The rectangular design suits a military base, IMO, though I've never been to one.. :)

I agree with Jerrysheppy.

I think something like Marbgray would make a better main texture for the hell design, instead of Gstone1. It's not colorful like Gstone, and matches your base theme better... IMO.



But the base theme and the hell theme are used in completely separate parts of the level. In fact they aren't even connected directly and only through teleporters can you get between the two.

I am not trying to re-create Doom 3 here, and PSX Doom had plenty of marble textures.

Old Post 03-15-10 01:24 #
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gemini09
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Ok. I feel the point still stands, that the one theme (base) is sterile, while the other is very colorful. It's just a perception, and it may change once I play it instead of just viewing the 2 screenshots, however.. :)

Old Post 03-15-10 02:54 #
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DeathevokatioN
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Looks awesome, I can't wait for this to get released!

Old Post 03-15-10 07:10 #
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Snakes
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Frankly, I think just adding some MARBGRAY architecture/detailing to the hellish section whilst leaving GSTONE as the primary texture would be the best approach. I saw a bit of this one of the screenshots, so it seems like you've got the basic idea of what I'm saying.

I do, however, think that blue/green coloring looks a little odd, especially when I noticed that the floor there was blood. I don't even know if that needs coloring at all, TBH.

Old Post 03-15-10 07:25 #
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hardcore_gamer
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Snakes said:
Frankly, I think just adding some MARBGRAY architecture/detailing to the hellish section whilst leaving GSTONE as the primary texture would be the best approach. I saw a bit of this one of the screenshots, so it seems like you've got the basic idea of what I'm saying.

I do, however, think that blue/green coloring looks a little odd, especially when I noticed that the floor there was blood. I don't even know if that needs coloring at all, TBH.



Interesting suggestions. I won't do what you just described right away since I don't really like the idea of changing the textures right now, but if more people (playtesters) ask for this and agree with you then I will probably change it in the way you described.


DeathevokatioN said:
Looks awesome, I can't wait for this to get released!


Thank you!

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Old Post 03-15-10 12:02 #
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dutch devil
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hardcore_gamer said:


I know that height difference may not be all over the place in the videos I posted but that doesn't mean its not there, there are plenty of areas with height difference, but only when its actually relevant to the gameplay. My mapping style has always been more about creating fun yet not to complicated layouts rather then super non-linear areas that have large amounts of height difference just for the sake of looking good, my mapping style is more straight forward. I will admit that it is something not everybody including you aren't all that fond of but its just the way I map. So far a number of playtesters have told me the map was fine (besides a few texture issues) so I intend to stick with my current mapping style.

As for the darkness, yea that is something I am still working on so don't expect everything to be extremely dark in the finished version of the map.


Could you show some screens with more height difference then, because I couldn't find anything. And adding height difference isn't complicated at all, you don't have to be some mapping guru for that. And imo plenty of height difference will add to more fun and interesting gameplay. Nothing is more boring than having to fight monsters on the same level you are for the entire level. Linear maps don't have to be boring, linearity in maps is fine as long as you entertain the player enough. My main reason for adding height difference in my maps is to make gameplay more fun. That it also looks good is just an added bonus.

Old Post 03-15-10 23:20 #
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hardcore_gamer
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Ok, here are 2 new editor screenshots.

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4085/40158310.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8804/29973563.jpg

All feedback is welcome as usual.

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Old Post 04-18-10 04:08 #
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Aldaraia
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Glad to see you haven't given up. :) So many potential projects descend into obscurity because their mappers get lazy. It looks pretty damn good so far... any idea of which Aubrey Hodges song you're going to use?

Old Post 04-18-10 04:24 #
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esselfortium
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Based on the 3D mode shot, I'm going to point out a few things since you asked for feedback:

- There is no visible lighting contrast at all. Add some torches, or gothicky metal lamps, or sky windows, or something.

- Putting a totally plain flat with no outlines at all (bars, panels, bricks, or whatever) on anything other than a floor/ceiling or a small border is pretty much inevitably going to look like crap, and draws attention to the fact that the map structures are flat lines with textures on them.

- There's basically no color contrast; there's a bit of blood on the floor, and a hanging leg, but the entire rest of the room is nothing but dull green. Mix in some layers of gray stone, or wood, or metal, or some combination thereof, into the architecture.

- The heights of some of your ceiling borders don't quite match up with the sizes of the horizontal marble bars on their textures. Move them up or down 8 units or whatever is needed to make them fit properly, and it'll look less sloppy and more believable.

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Old Post 04-18-10 04:24 #
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Karnage
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Looks cool, PM me the level and I'll testrun it for ya.

Old Post 04-18-10 04:43 #
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hardcore_gamer
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esselfortium said:
Based on the 3D mode shot, I'm going to point out a few things since you asked for feedback:

- There is no visible lighting contrast at all. Add some torches, or gothicky metal lamps, or sky windows, or something.

- Putting a totally plain flat with no outlines at all (bars, panels, bricks, or whatever) on anything other than a floor/ceiling or a small border is pretty much inevitably going to look like crap, and draws attention to the fact that the map structures are flat lines with textures on them.

- There's basically no color contrast; there's a bit of blood on the floor, and a hanging leg, but the entire rest of the room is nothing but dull green. Mix in some layers of gray stone, or wood, or metal, or some combination thereof, into the architecture.

- The heights of some of your ceiling borders don't quite match up with the sizes of the horizontal marble bars on their textures. Move them up or down 8 units or whatever is needed to make them fit properly, and it'll look less sloppy and more believable.



Not all of the things you said are actually true, note that the room looks somewhat different in-game then it does in the editor. I also don't agree with point nr 2 and 3 and I think the room looks fairly decent when actually playing the level. I am not sure what you mean when you say that he heights of some of my ceiling borders don't quite match up with the sizes of the horizontal marble bars, it looks fine as far as I can see. Or am I missing something?

Your feedback is still appreciated.


Aldaraia said:
Glad to see you haven't given up. :) So many potential projects descend into obscurity because their mappers get lazy. It looks pretty damn good so far... any idea of which Aubrey Hodges song you're going to use?


Who is Aubrey Hodges?


Karnage said:
Looks cool, PM me the level and I'll testrun it for ya.


If I send you the map then will I actually hear back from you? I have gotten really annoyed by testers who never actually contact you again after having PM'd a download link.

Old Post 04-18-10 13:38 #
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scalliano
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Aubrey Hodges is the guy who made the music for PSX Doom, Doom 64 and Quake 64.

Old Post 04-18-10 15:03 #
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hardcore_gamer
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scalliano said:
Aubrey Hodges is the guy who made the music for PSX Doom, Doom 64 and Quake 64.


I don't remember the name of the track, but its the one with the people crying. If you watch the gameplay demo video I posted above you can hear the track play.

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Old Post 04-18-10 15:39 #
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Subatomic
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If you're still looking for playtesters, I'd like to try this.

Old Post 04-18-10 15:54 #
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hardcore_gamer
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Subatomic said:
If you're still looking for playtesters, I'd like to try this.


Ok, I will send you the WADS via PM. But first I am going to make a few tweaks to the map and work on it a little more.

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Old Post 04-18-10 16:13 #
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Subatomic
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Alright, sounds good.

Old Post 04-18-10 21:33 #
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hardcore_gamer
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Here is a updated version of the editor/layout screen:

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3852/93727082.jpg

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Old Post 04-19-10 00:12 #
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