Ghostbusters Doom: Looking for Mappers and Decorate Programmers.

So of all of the greatest unfinished projects I would have to say that one of the best (if not the best) would have to be Scuba Steve's Ghostbusters Doom. I've always loved what was done with it and loved the game play, but with its unfinished levels i felt bad I was unable to play the game without IDCLEV. I was wondering, now the both Action Doom's are out of the way, is their any hope for a comeback Steve? Will we see a finished version? Will some bugs be fixed? Please say yes to all of these. If your not going to do it, why not?, it seems like it would be an easy side project especially compared to AD2:UB. Anyone who has knowledge about his or would like to drop your opinion about this subject, please do.

Geonightman said:

So of all of the greatest unfinished projects I would have to say that one of the best (if not the best) would have to be Scuba Steve's Ghostbusters Doom. I've always loved what was done with it and loved the game play, but with its unfinished levels i felt bad I was unable to play the game without IDCLEV. I was wondering, now the both Action Doom's are out of the way, is their any hope for a comeback Steve? Will we see a finished version? Will some bugs be fixed? Please say yes to all of these. If your not going to do it, why not?, it seems like it would be an easy side project especially compared to AD2:UB. Anyone who has knowledge about his or would like to drop your opinion about this subject, please do.

Maybe you could ask him if you could take over the project if he's not going to do it anymore.

Hahaha, oh wow.

I once began a re-boot of it but there was such a lack of interest from people to hop aboard that i just put it to the side.

Still, the reason that it is not popular is because the unfinished version did not have Steve's current abilities. But if we have someone/some people respawn the idea, I think that this would be a big thing. I myself had tried to finished to levels. But for 2 reasons I failed.
1. I couldn't capture the way Steve does it.
2. I used Doom Builder 1. I also don't know how to do scripting or which editor lets you use scripting. Currently, Doom Builder's site is down so I can't get DB2 yet.
If anyone would like to join me in making it come back, please say. If anything, can someone say something I can use.

It definitely is a primative wad, but some of the areas were really fun to look through, especially the level dedicated to the shining. Plus, some levels had their names posted but they were the original doom 2 maps instead. (ex, map 32's title said Titanic, but it plays as Grosse instead). If those unmade levels like that are completed, then this wad would be truly epic!

Geonightman said:

Still, the reason that it is not popular is because the unfinished version did not have Steve's current abilities. But if we have someone/some people respawn the idea, I think that this would be a big thing. I myself had tried to finished to levels. But for 2 reasons I failed.
1. I couldn't capture the way Steve does it.
2. I used Doom Builder 1. I also don't know how to do scripting or which editor lets you use scripting. Currently, Doom Builder's site is down so I can't get DB2 yet.
If anyone would like to join me in making it come back, please say. If anything, can someone say something I can use.

I'm in. However i use EDGE as my numero uno port and i don't map. My mapping skills are basic at the best. However i am pretty darn good at coding and finding resources.

Ok. So far the list goes as follows:
Geonightman
CeeJay
Anyone else want to join?

Wait shouldn't we get Steve's OK first?

Yeah you probably should,PM him,Also Im on board,tell me what needs to be done

Ok, I'll ask him. Tell me what you are good at. I have this for us CeeJay:

Geonightman - Project Leader/Mapper
CeeJay - Programmer

troop, tell what your good at and I'll put you on the list. I just assumed Cee that you were good at programming because you said you use EDGE. If that's not what you were planning, then what are you good at.
If any of you know a good artist, were going to need one.

To answer trooper's questions: Well I think what is done is very good. I found a lot of things to be non-cannon though (Ex. saying the prehistoric bit*h line for the slime-lord). I'd like to fix those, with the exception of things such as Titanic and the Shining level as those were put in on purpose. I also wanted to fix some of the programming bugs. (Ex. infinite Ghost Traps, glitchy walking with Netrona Blaster.) Many of the ghost's seemed to be OP. (Ex. Sam Hain [Pumpkin head] having such a fast fire rate, Muck Creature not flinching). Gun ammo (Ex. I would like to make Ghost-mobile have infinite "gas", and having Ecto-Resonance Detector using the same ammo as the Netrona Blaster not the PKE Meter) Finally, somethings not being changed, (Ex. Sounds)

If you wish to join, drop me a line at Geonightman@excite.com
If you don't know what some of these weapon/baddie terms are go to the development: http://doomworld.com/gbd2/develop.htm

Geonightman said:

I just assumed Cee that you were good at programming because you said you use EDGE. If that's not what you were planning, then what are you good at.

Yeah, as in coding in DDF language for that port. We have to decide here and now what port this will be made for. I can send what i did before, it has 5 weapons are a few monsters. Mainly for testing or demonstration purposes but could be used as a foundation. I did, in the process realize that it is possible to do a car almost perfectly. Once acquired, the player moves faster, has high armour aswell as special weapons plus diffrent sounds for pain and such.

I'm thinkin' the most obvious port would be Zdoom. Not only is it easy to program, it's also what I use and what the project was started on.

You can always try to do a multi-port mod. It would involve using a common standard for critical features (such as the map format) and duplicating efforts for additional content (i.e., both DDF and DECORATE code for weapons and enemies), but it's very possible.

If you'd like Gez, Ill add you to my the list of people on the project and you can be in charge of multi-porting the project.

No thanks. I'm not volunteering, just pointing out it's possible (given that some people want to do it for EDGE and others for ZDoom).

No, problem.

I looked over the wad again,and some thing became very clear to me

1.the arm sprites for the weapons have to go,their extremly outdated and ugly

2.most of the spriting needs some touching up and re doing

3.We need more of a variety of weapons,shotgun type proton pack maybe? Ghostbusters the game is a good place to get what im talking about.
Other than that,I think this is very possible to pull off

Good Catches troop. What exactly are you good at trooper? Mapping, programming. You could be an artist, as we have yet to find one.

Would it be possible to use rotating doors a la Hexen map 1 instead of raising doors?

Im more of an all around, I'll do the sprites,but someones gonna have to do the decorate

Also, I am a full time student so dont expect alot from me durring the week.

I actually converted all the Ghostbusters Doom resources to DECORATE for ZDoom and added extra animations to make them smoother. For the Proton Pack, I added the loreshot 'pull' from strife so that one can 'lasso' ghosts and pull them in. I also added a remote detonating feature to the ghost trap. The alternate fire of the Proton Pack will also 'set off' the ghost trap as well, so you could literally pull ghosts into the trap. If I can find this on my old hard drive I shall share it.

EDIT: Gez's idea of multi-port support would be cool, but my DECORATE code relies on some ACS functions to make it work right, namely the remote detonator.

EDIT 2: With some recent additions to DECORATE functionality, I can actually make the PKE Meter light up when it's close to enemies ...

EDIT 3: It appears that my Remote detonator is severely broken now for some reason. It doesn't work right in the latest version of GZDoom.

As far as the weapons are concern, they do need polishing up. However i kind of like the cheesy cartoony look of the original and would like to maintain that look and feel personally. As for the monsters, there are plenty of them in the original mod along with others made outside that fit the look and could defiently be used. Eriance made a creature called Shadow or something that looked just like something Steve would have made for the original TC. Monsters that need to be altered/added:

Slimer - looks like it was made from photographcs and as such doesn't blend well with the other graphics.

Civilians - Needs more of them.

Zombies - This mod should not be a gorefest and as such the zombies should have a cartoony look and not overly gory.

Zuul creatures - they look alright, but could be better with more detail perhaps.

Stay Puft marshmallow man complete enemy sprites. In EDGE, you can use 16-rotation angle for maximum smoothness.

Here is what is required...

1.) Use the Proton Pack from here. I recently redrew the gun for Ghouls vs Humans, and this version looks much better. The new proton pack should have an overheating system using these graphics... so long as it has infinite ammo. If you want to play Ghouls vs Humans, Cutman has done some nice work implementing traps with push button controls, and the proton pack.

2.) The gameplay needs to change from "Ghostbusters Doom" to "Ghostbuster made in Doom" Get rid of all the guns that aren't needed. Ideally, I would have you always have the proton Pack and traps. The PKE meter is used to detect ghosts (maybe it clicks faster if one is near).. maybe the gigameter will only detect slime based ghosts. The slime blower can be used to slime enemies and hold them in place... but that's it. The rest of it goes. Ghosts should have to be stunned with their energy lowered to be captured by a trap. None of this "Shotgun blaster" crap or "You have to find the proton pack and traps on a level".

3.)Levels repaired/remade. Some of the final work I did is OK... and would pass for decent quality... but most are terrible. This is just obvious and I don't need to describe which levels.

4.)Drastically cut down the scope of the mod! Too many levels were planned. This was the 1998 era of "I'm going to make a whole Megawad with 32 levels". Stick with 5 solid levels for GB1 and another 5 for GB2. That's it!

5.) Convert to Decorate! This mod is filled with tons of archaic Dehacked work that is broken by every port except Eternity. Either make this mod for ZDoom or Eternity.. sorry, but nobody (few) cares about EDGE.

If you really want to finish this project, great. You won't get any help from me, I just don't have the time or will to finish something like this. I can give you any resources I have left or respond to any questions about direction or ideas... but that's about it.

Steve you are completely correct about everything you just said. I think we should have these as kind of a guideline.

Patrick would you like to join the group?

I'd love to join. Here are some ideas I had and maybe a 'game plan' as it were:

(1) In terms of gameplay. I agree about the proton pack, it should overheat and have the ability to 'drag' enemies over to a the much more powerful ghost trap.

(2) Why not make this a mod for Action Doom 2? I liked the cartoony look that the original GBD2 resources had, and with a little modification, could fit in to that kind of art style pretty well. At the very least we'd have the advantage of having some pre-made art assets.

(3) I feel that the PKE meter and Gigameter could serve different purposes (perhaps they could detect different things?) and add 'goggles' that allow the player to see invisible ghosts.

(4) I'm sorry but the implementation of the ECTO-1 was terrible. It needs to die and never come back.

(5)I feel that a few key scenes from both movies and perhaps the RGB show would be cool, but nothing more. A complete overhaul of all the levels should be in order. I would want to limit this to 8 maps at the very, very most if not less.

(6) Fucking Sigourney Weaver. Let me emphasize how necessary it is to have her in this mod.

(7) I agree with Scuba About ZDoom. Eternity wouldn't be useful for such a project, yet. Ceejay, DECORATE isn't so hard to master.

(8) perhaps the gameplay could be more puzzle oriented (although I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of having at least one level dedicated strictly to blasting the fuck out of some zombies)

Patrick said:

(1) In terms of gameplay. I agree about the proton pack, it should overheat and have the ability to 'drag' enemies over to a the much more powerful ghost trap.

but how is it to be accomplished? Is it possible to create such a weapon that pulls enemies. We have to be realistic aswell.

Patrick said:
(2) Why not make this a mod for Action Doom 2? I liked the cartoony look that the original GBD2 resources had, and with a little modification, could fit in to that kind of art style pretty well. At the very least we'd have the advantage of having some pre-made art assets.

Ehhh, while Action Doom 1 and 2 sprites and graphics were done by the same person i do not feel they blend together with the Ghostbusters mod. I am strongly against the idea of building a mod on top of another mod which is a sequel to another mod.

Patrick said:

(3) I feel that the PKE meter and Gigameter could serve different purposes (perhaps they could detect different things?) and add 'goggles' that allow the player to see invisible ghosts.

Sounds great! The game should have plenty of dark areas where you have to be careful, using your PKE Meter and goggles to spot ghosts.

Patrick said:

(4) I'm sorry but the implementation of the ECTO-1 was terrible. It needs to die and never come back.

That is just plain silly. Steve was stuck with basic DeHacked so of course it could not be done better then. But it can be pulled off now, i actually made a car in EDGE and it turned out pretty damn good (aside from the lack of car sounds).

Patrick said:

(5)I feel that a few key scenes from both movies and perhaps the RGB show would be cool, but nothing more. A complete overhaul of all the levels should be in order. I would want to limit this to 8 maps at the very, very most if not less.

I would agree with Steve, 5 for Ghostbusters 1 and 5 for Ghostbusters 2. Plus GB HQ where you can refill your ammo and stuff.

Patrick said:

(6) Fucking Sigourney Weaver. Let me emphasize how necessary it is to have her in this mod.

She was in both movies, so of course she will be implemented in the plot.

Patrick said:

(7) I agree with Scuba About ZDoom. Eternity wouldn't be useful for such a project, yet. Ceejay, DECORATE isn't so hard to master.

Damn. Why can't people just realize that there is NOTHING wrong with EDGE. It is so damn underrated it pisses me off, there are quite a few big projects being made for it (Blood Transfusion for instance).
The features in EDGE keep coming and quite a lot can be accomplished with it nowadays. If you give me a few days i can whip something up as a demonstration.

Patrick said:

(8) perhaps the gameplay could be more puzzle oriented (although I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of having at least one level dedicated strictly to blasting the fuck out of some zombies)

Should be all about investigating and ghost blasting in my opinion.

CeeJay said:

but how is it to be accomplished? Is it possible to create such a weapon that pulls enemies. We have to be realistic aswell.

as I mentioned earlier in this thread, It is very possible (and very easy for that matter) to do this. because ZDoom can inherit properties from all Doom engine games it would be as simple as inheriting properties from Strife's Loreshot.

a quick thingy I put together to demonstrate what I mean, the file name is gbd2_j (requires latest ZDoom)

CeeJay said:

That is just plain silly. Steve was stuck with basic DeHacked so of course it could not be done better then. But it can be pulled off now, i actually made a car in EDGE and it turned out pretty damn good (aside from the lack of car sounds).

Again, I still insist that the ECTO-1 felt gimmicky. It suffered from 'lets-add-as-many-maps-as-possible' syndrome. The ECTO 1 was only a car in the movie, it didn't play a larger role other than just being an awesome set piece. I think that it should remain as just an awesome set piece. I'd like to hear what Scuba thinks of this, but I really don't like the idea of adding it. Even though it is possible in ZDoom/EDGE, it doesn't mean we have to have it. Revamping those graphics would be a whole different animal altogether

CeeJay said:

Damn. Why can't people just realize that there is NOTHING wrong with EDGE.

The issue here is not that there is a problem with EDGE. I certainly agree that people bash EDGE a little too much when I find that it's a quite good port. The main problem is that lack of interest in EDGE by the community. Considering the huge popularity of ZDoom and its children ports, it would be best to use zdoom because: (1) the mod would run under GZDoom and ZDoom allowing players to use software or hardware rendering (2) Skulltag compatibility, its also the most popular multiplayer port at the moment (3) EDGE simply doesn't have enough of a following for people to justify downloading it to play some reboot of an old mod, whereas most modders have a copy of ZDoom somewhere (4) If Scuba doesn't like EDGE, who are we to disagree?

As Gez suggested earlier, perhaps making the maps in Boom/MBF format and scripting all resources in duplicate for each engine would be really cool. it would simply mean a large amount of coordination to make sure everything works. Using ZDoom's mapping features would be nice though.

First and foremost, I think it would be a better idea to decide what sort of gameplay and features should be done before settling on a port.

I like the idea of a 'mystery' type gameplay, where the primary focus is to track down ghosts and catch them. Perhaps larger enemies should run from the player so you have to go chase them down. I feel that the "tazer" should not be implemented because it is a useless gun, the resonance detector cant possible have any useful purpose, either.

That 'blaster' could be used as a kind of stun gun that freezes enemies momentarily so they could more easily be captured. The PKE meter could detect lesser enemies and the Gigameter could detect bigger ones? or alternatively they could both detect enemies, but the gigameter could "flash" invisible enemies making them visible for a few moments.

Another idea would be to implement Stife's dialog system so that you can ask passerbyers "where they saw the ghosts."

Perhaps the ECTO 1 could simply be a way to teleport back to ghostbusters headquarters?

As someone who uses EDGE, I say use ZDoom. You're making a doom mod, which is great for ZDoom. If you're making something not doom and using entirely new textures that aren't in the Doom palette, use EDGE. Doom, for some reason I'll never fully understand, looks terrible in EDGE. If you use hi-res textures or PNG textures and all those GL extensions, EDGE can look fantastic, but not when it's running Doom. It's gritty whereas ZDoom is very polished.