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Snakes
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So, yeah, I started working on some levels recently that I thought of turning into your usual, garden-variety techbase episode... then I got overly ambitious, aaaaand I'm going to try and make a megawad out of some ideas I've been brewing in my head. This is due in part to about 12 years of wanting to mod (Note, this is not an exaggeration. I just never bothered to look for any sort of editor for Doom). A megawad is something I've aspired to do ever since I first mapped a linedef (SEE: September '09).

So what type of megawad? Sooo glad you asked.

-Intended port: Anything limit-removing. This is because I grew up playing vanilla Doom, and now I want to emulate that experience while allowing myself a lot of breathing room for map design.

-I'm ganking the CC4 texture pack, though at least one new sky will be changed. Probably going to use E4's sky for Maps 11-20. I'm undecided for the last two.

-Gameplay: Tough, but except maybe for a few maps, not HR-styled. Think like a Plutonia+ without the chaingunner/revenant spam. The levels will be medium for the most part, but I'm sure I'll get out of hand with some of the later levels.

-Style: This is the idea I have:
Map01-Map06: The usual techbase/factory style. (DONE!)
Map07-Map11: Again, a traditional hellified-base/factory. (FINISHED!)
Map11-Map20: Varied theme, mostly outdoors. (FINALIZED)
Map21-Map30: Hellish. Lots of blood, lava, and Redrock.
Map31-Map32: ????? (COMPLETE!)


And because I know you like them, here is a screenie:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r246/exitmrhat/doom10.jpg

Feel free to share your thoughts. As a matter of fact, tear into me if you must.

TL:DR version: I'm attempting a one-man megawad.


12 MAP DEMO NOW AVAILABLE: http://www.mediafire.com/?z7d8fww8i08ulpf

Last edited by Snakes on 05-22-13 at 17:41

Old Post 04-19-10 02:56 #
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PRIMEVAL
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Judging from the screenie, it looks pretty good. I'll have to check this out when I have time tomorrow. I might be able to make some gfx. I can also make music for you ;) lawl, I whore my music out too much... But yeah, this looks promising just by the screenie.

Old Post 04-19-10 03:56 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Some fdas. Overall the architecture looks good, but the gameplay is rather trappy.

MAP02 has a severe problem with the switch in the instant-lowering floor bit (tagged 10 or 12) not lowering, although the spectre's alcove opens. Not sure why exactly. Played in prboom + 2.5.0.6 -complevel 2.

Old Post 04-19-10 04:34 #
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Snakes
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PRIMEVAL - I'd definitely be interested by this. I'm getting a lot of music thus far from my limited past gaming experience. PM me after you play it if you're interested.

AB - Those were super-informative videos. I can't explain why the bug happened on Map02. Every time I've tested it, that part has gone smoothly. Also, the floating ammo and stimpacks on Map04 were kind of anomalies to me as well, but I just shifted them a bit so they'd be where they're supposed to be. I also notice a sector didn't lower on Map03, which again, I don't what that's all about. Also, I made that yellow key area escapable. Forgot to use 117 on one side of that door :/

I do have a question as to what you by trappy exactly. Is it that once you're inside a certain area, you can't get out, or that it has... well, too many traps I guess?

Old Post 04-19-10 05:03 #
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Insane_Gazebo
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The layouts were fun, the traps were well designed. I didn't see any mis-aligned textures or any texturing that looked out of place. Monster, health and ammo balance seemed fine. I didn't come across any bugs.

I didn't die on my run through your maps (pitty I wasn't recording a demo) - but I did get close a couple of times.

Honestly, I can't see anything you're doing that could be greatly improved upon. The maps looks lovely and are fun to play. I'm not sure you can really strive much higher than that.

I also asume, given the difficulty thus far, we'll be seeing this get rather difficult later on? (I consider this a good thing.)

Anyhow, keep it up. Map until there's some sort of bleeding involved. :D

Old Post 04-19-10 05:19 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Didn't notice a part not lowering in 3, hmm. Not sure what the 2 bug is either, although when I opened the map in DB2 it looked like some sectors in that area were unclosed.

By trappy I meant over 1/4 to 1/2 the encounters were traps vs. plain room fights (yeah I have a rather low tolerance of traps, comes from doing slaughter maps heh). Some were done well but most I was expecting. Really I just don't like most base maps because traps are relatively common in them, and most have similarities to other maps. Would just like something new and cool ;)

Old Post 04-19-10 06:05 #
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BlueEagle
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Very fun maps in my opinion :D
The design was stylish and memorable. I found the areas fit together very well and I was able to remember almost every location after going there only one time. Many maps are too similar for me and I get lost, but that wasn't the case here. The traps were challenging and varied in design, which I also liked a lot :). It made the overall gameplay nice and challenging and the maps had a good flow. I liked the fact that you put the RL before the SSG in progress and I've found a Berserk in almost every level ;)

Only complaint was the ending of map04 - it was brutal. After the two Hell Knights at the blue card punched me one time too many, I had almost no health left - and after that all the Revenants and chaingunners were too much for me.

Oh and another thing, but that is personal taste: if you place a switch that gives access to a card, don't use doorblu/red/yel at the sides, because to me those switches always look like I need the switch to activate them. Place colored lights at the sides or specifically in Map03 something like compblue.

Would love to see more maps soon! Keep it up!

Old Post 04-19-10 08:03 #
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HackNeyed
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I had loads of fun on these maps! Great job dude. I died once on map 2 I think and once on map4.

My comments.

There were some brutal parts though they aren't very bad the second time around and were quite enjoyable. I had a few unexpected jump out of my seat moments as well. I like the tricky nature of the enemy placement a lot like in map01 I made sure the door was open near the berserk pack to make my escape from the monsters that would teleport in only to run face first into an Imp closet... very nice.

About the bug in Map02, please don't be offended if you already know/have done this but for proper limit removing behavior in PrBoom (Plus) when testing be sure to add -complevel 2 to the commandline or in the prboom(-plus).cfg be sure that "default_compatibility_level" is set to 2.

Map03 the music was too loud, it happens in wads but I don't like having to adjust the volume at the start of nearly every level. Also, after the yellow key was raised I couldn't pick it up by walking into it and had to run/bump it to reach so you might move it a little closer or lessen the thickness of the wall.

Finally, map4... I think damaging floors should be consistent and the level starts with non-damaging nukeage only to have later areas with damaging nukeage. Pet peeve.

Thats all I've got. Great maps! Thanks.

-EDIT-

Yeah I tested it again and the med packs only float at Doom2 compatibility level (-complevel 2). They stay on the floor in Boom compatibility levels.

One other comment on Map04. The railing is solid and eats my rockets when I try to shoot Revenants through/over it yet they are tall enough for it to not affect their rockets. Not really a complaint, it just adds to the difficulty and might block some fire from Heavy weapon dudes below which is a good thing. Just a comment.

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Last edited by HackNeyed on 04-19-10 at 11:48

Old Post 04-19-10 10:57 #
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ArmouredBlood
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HackNeyed said:
About the bug in Map02, please don't be offended if you already know/have done this but for proper limit removing behavior in PrBoom (Plus) when testing be sure to add -complevel 2 to the commandline or in the prboom(-plus).cfg be sure that "default_compatibility_level" is set to 2.
______
One other comment on Map04. The railing is solid and eats my rockets when I try to shoot Revenants through/over it yet they are tall enough for it to not affect their rockets. Not really a complaint, it just adds to the difficulty and might block some fire from Heavy weapon dudes below which is a good thing. Just a comment.



Just tried putting the -complevel 2 in front of -file, still not working =/ Don't have chocolate doom but maybe I should try that.

-My first death in that map was caused by those railings as I realized too late the effects of the trick -.-

Old Post 04-19-10 14:29 #
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HackNeyed
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ArmouredBlood said:


Just tried putting the -complevel 2 in front of -file, still not working =/ Don't have chocolate doom but maybe I should try that.

-My first death in that map was caused by those railings as I realized too late the effects of the trick -.-



No you have it backwards. I was letting Snakes know that he should be using -complevel 2 for proper 'limit removing' behavior. As the maps stand now they are Boom compatible (-complevel 9) or Boom's 'Doom Compatibility' level (-complevel 7) or standard/current PrBoom (-complevel -1) as I've tested.

Also, this can be seen in ArmouredBlood's demo but just to put it in writing. On map04 the monsters don't teleport in after hitting the switch to raise the stairs to the blue key in complevel 2 but they do teleport in on complevel 7, 9 and -1.

The bottom line is that these are Boom maps. I doubt that they have to use Boom tags/lines/specials or whatever and can be done with proper vanilla tags but I can't make more then a few rooms in DoomBuilder so don't ask me for anymore insight then what complevels work.

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Old Post 04-19-10 15:48 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Oh ok, no wonder it got messed up.

Old Post 04-19-10 15:53 #
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Snakes
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HackNeyed said:
About the bug in Map02, please don't be offended if you already know/have done this but for proper limit removing behavior in PrBoom (Plus) when testing be sure to add -complevel 2 to the commandline or in the prboom(-plus).cfg be sure that "default_compatibility_level" is set to 2.

Map03 the music was too loud, it happens in wads but I don't like having to adjust the volume at the start of nearly every level. Also, after the yellow key was raised I couldn't pick it up by walking into it and had to run/bump it to reach so you might move it a little closer or lessen the thickness of the wall.


One other comment on Map04. The railing is solid and eats my rockets when I try to shoot Revenants through/over it yet they are tall enough for it to not affect their rockets. Not really a complaint, it just adds to the difficulty and might block some fire from Heavy weapon dudes below which is a good thing. Just a comment.



To the fist point... I always neglect to do this for some strange reason. Just one of those little things that slips my mind. So, yeah... going to remedy that by retesting these and fixing the problems that occur.

Map03's yellow key and the railings on Map04 were two concerns for me, so I'm glad you mentioned those. Reducing thickness is probably how I'm going to do this. Moving it closer to the wall created some very peculiar effects.

The railings, on the other hand... I made them the way I did so that the cacos could have free maneuverability. I'm still kind of conflicted on how to approach it, because by merely marking the linedefs impassible, they took forever to fly towards me and were extremely easy to deal with. I'm considering removing those first 3 cacos and juts placing a few more imps on either side of the area to avoid the problem altogether.


ArmouredBlood said:
By trappy I meant over 1/4 to 1/2 the encounters were traps vs. plain room fights (yeah I have a rather low tolerance of traps, comes from doing slaughter maps heh). Some were done well but most I was expecting. Really I just don't like most base maps because traps are relatively common in them, and most have similarities to other maps. Would just like something new and cool ;)


I guess I did this because I wanted to keep the early maps challenging without using the tougher enemies. Being insanely tight on ammo/health was never my favorite method of doing this, so traps are normally the way I go.

Thanks for the feedback so far, guys! Really appreciate it.

Old Post 04-19-10 18:11 #
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PRIMEVAL
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Figures, when I have time, the file is "Temporarily Unavailable." Ugh. Maybe tonight after class or if I feel arsed to get a Mac port for Doom, I can play it at work tomorrow.

Old Post 04-19-10 18:36 #
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HackNeyed
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I know next to nothing about mapping but if the railing can't be fixed (it was just a comment) then I'd rather it not be fixed and keep the cacos. I like the cacos because I get the Heavy weapon dudes to tear through them in some of my runs. :D

I was recording some complevel 9 runs and I found a problem at the exit after I lower the bars they sometimes raise again. Not sure if this is Boom's fault but I have one successful run and one failed run due to the exit bars. Both demos are in the zip and I even made a xvid (divx) video of what happens at the exit using PrBoom-Plus' chasecam.

ihm-UV-04-509.zip

ihm-UV-04-exitfail.avi

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Old Post 04-19-10 18:46 #
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Snakes
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I'll watch that when I get the time. I know the exact problem with the bars raising. Didn't ever occur to me until you mentioned it. So yeah... will have to fix that when I get home.

EDIT: Very, very entertaining demo. The way you handled the first HK trap was something I never thought of doing. Very cool.

Also, good call AB. The unclosed sector was causing the problem. Kinda funny how sectors on the other side of the room can cause a bug like that. It's fixed now, but I don't think reloading the levels is a necessity at this point. Thanks for spotting that!!

Last edited by Snakes on 04-19-10 at 21:07

Old Post 04-19-10 18:49 #
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CodenniumRed
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You know, I have a DooM mod sitting on my hard drive, that has additional levels and fixes up alot of the monsters. Adds a few new weapons, you know the drill. If you're willing to make this into a GZdoom thing, we can combine assets!

Old Post 04-19-10 21:29 #
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PRIMEVAL
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Finally got time to play the first 2 levels. Pretty cool. Challenging, but enjoyable monster battles, good layout, texturing, the monster closets are not just closets were not just random cube rooms with monsters in them but they looked like they had a function. Overall, very enjoyable.

The fountain structure thingy in the first level at the beginning seems to have a weird sound loop glitch, unless that's due to me having varying SFX pitches.

I'll let you know how the other levels are once I get to them.

Old Post 04-19-10 21:59 #
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HackNeyed
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Snakes said:
EDIT: Very, very entertaining demo. The way you handled the first HK trap was something I never thought of doing. Very cool.


Thanks! I'm glad you liked it. It was my fastest run but also my sloppiest/lowest health success... interesting enough that way I guess. Yeah sometimes the Heavy weapon dudes really help rip down the HKs at the window. :D

Last edited by HackNeyed on 04-19-10 at 23:02

Old Post 04-19-10 22:37 #
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Snakes
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CodenniumRed said:
You know, I have a DooM mod sitting on my hard drive, that has additional levels and fixes up alot of the monsters. Adds a few new weapons, you know the drill. If you're willing to make this into a GZdoom thing, we can combine assets!


While I do appreciate the offer, there are numerous reasons for which I'll have to turn it down. I'm just not that interested in learning a new format right now, and even if I were, I don't have very much time for it lately.

Plus, and I hate mentioning this so shortly after it caused a huge controversy, I still run Doom on a laptop from 2006 with an ATI graphics card which can cause numerous problems for me while running GZDoom.

Lastly, as I said in the OP, I'm very intent on keeping this limit-removing. Mainly for nostalgia reasons, I suppose.

Old Post 04-21-10 06:07 #
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Chex Warrior
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Good job Snakes, I'm really enjoying the gameplay and the architecture, I love the traps!

EDIT: Oh yeah, keep it limit removing, I can't run GZDoom either.

Old Post 04-21-10 16:56 #
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Snakes
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Map05 is finished! I stalled after the red door, and so some of it was a bit forced. Satisfied overall. See OP for link and hit me with the feedback.

Screenshot.

Old Post 04-26-10 08:33 #
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Snakes
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To those interested:

Map06 is done!

Also, ignore the Map07 area, as it won't be utilized at all. I actually did this one all at once, so there's probably an error or two I missed. Also, this one is... I don't know, kind of oddly styled... Also, ignore those silly typos in the story. Hey, by Doom jr. standards, I'm 1/5 of the way done!

I'm rambling. I need sleep. Gimme feed back if you download.

Old Post 05-14-10 07:20 #
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ArmouredBlood
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I might've mentioned this before (just skimmed the comments), but you can use the 'create fake floor or ceiling' in boom to make a see-through wall of the right height, then use lower unpegged with negative offsets to put the railing at the right height. Or you can get hacky and use self-referencing sectors to do about the same thing and keep it just limit-removing.

P.S. expect some fdas soon, probably -complevel 9 just in case something boom/mbf is still in there ;)

E: aight, here they are.

5 was fun, besides a part where 2 cacodemons come out and the doortraks are lower unpegged on a lift, and possibly making the switch for the stairs in front of the yellow key a little brighter and/or noticeable, it's good.

6 was tougher, putting that arch-vile in the yellow key fight and giving no cover was kinda mean. And the blue key stuff triggered too early. The plasma gun trap was cool and hectic. Finally the spidermastermind ... completely worthless. They really don't work that well unless it's a large arena and you have minimal cover, or you want to use it for infighting.

Last edited by ArmouredBlood on 05-14-10 at 08:32

Old Post 05-14-10 07:32 #
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Snakes
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The jump in difficulty was intentional, actually. I'm trying to use Map06, 11, and 20 as boss-like maps to mark the end of the episode, just set the tone.

The Blue Key is an easy fix, and I thought of how to do it in a much simpler, less nerfed sorta way. The AV on the other hand... I dunno, there isn't really much else I can put there without making the yellow key really really easy, unless I use a teleporter trap. I've been trying to stay away from those for the most part to keep a variety going. Maybe if I had it teleport to the other side of the room?

And finally, that damn Mastermind. It's actually a kind of random battle, as it managed to get out into the open area quite a few times during playtesting. I really wanted to use that sliding effect to reveal something big... you think a horde would be more effective there?

Thanks for the comments, I'll watch the FDAs in a bit.

Old Post 05-15-10 00:11 #
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ArmouredBlood
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For the yellow key arch-vile, try adding 2 small pillars (say 32x32) in the middle and putting a demon each in the closets. Then the player actually has some cover, but can still be shunted out if they're not careful.

For the spidermastermind, can you widen the opening a little? even after fully opening it didn't manage to get out. Or maybe put block monster lines on the edges of where the doors will open so that it's in a straight box, centering it to get out. Also make sure the door-open lines are as close together as you can get them.

As to what else you can put in there ... a horde wouldn't really be a boss battle, heh. You've already used every other monster, besides a cyb, and that wouldn't work very well in that space. I think you're stuck with a spidermastermind ;p

Old Post 05-15-10 01:10 #
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Super Jamie
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Played the first three maps. Pretty nice man! MAP01 was a good start, MAP02 was enjoyably tough and I died a fair few times. MAP03 was pretty brutal at the start. I am guessing this is your intention, though I think that one could be a tad more pistol start-able. I'll definitely play more of this :D

In MAP03, I started then went into the passage where the Yellow Key door is and couldn't get back out again. The door with the green side lights only opens from one side?

Old Post 05-15-10 01:25 #
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Snakes
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I still haven't fixed that door? *Grumble grumble grumble*

@AB: Yeah, I'm stuck with it. I'm saving Cybies for later... probably Map11. That's a pretty good idea for that AV, I'll test it out. I'll keep working on that last fight and see which method works best.

Old Post 05-15-10 01:37 #
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PRIMEVAL
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Wait, the Map03 one-sided door was an accident? lol

Did a pistol start of Map06, quite challenging. Died quite a few times by Revs and once by that bloody Arch-vile. Killed me the last millisecond right before the door closed. I liked the teleporting Knights and Barons around the red key. And as mentioned before, SpiderMM was not needed, but if he can get out I think it'll be a better fight.

Old Post 05-15-10 03:05 #
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Snakes
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Map07 is in the books.

This one is a bit... well, has a bit of experimentation in terms of sector effects, and I think it came out pretty good. Haven't playtested it a lot though, so it could be a bit unbalanced. It's not a typical Map07.

Screenshot

Old Post 05-25-10 03:22 #
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ArmouredBlood
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FDA after the switch lowering the yellow key pillar. I got confused what was supposed to happen after that so I stopped and started again, but forgot to make a different .lmp so I overwrote the technically first attempt. So amazingly no deaths, either I was on fire or the traps were a bit easier to get out of than I thought. The architecture was pretty nice, although it got snaggy in parts like the big middle room with those stepped supports from behind which I couldn't snag the medkit. And the plasma secret is extremely easy to find, might consider giving just the gun and no extra ammo considering how useful it was in some tight spots.

Old Post 05-25-10 04:41 #
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